(1973-04) Q-540 CD-4 Vinyl (2 ads)

[kfbkfb]

https://worldradiohistory.com/Archi...ng-Engineer/70s/Recording-1973-04.pdf#page=12^^^
A record pressed with Q-540 will provide over 3 times as many plays as an ordinary compound - with total fidelity!


Louis Dorren mentioned the Q-540 vinyl developed for CD-4,
although he only mentioned the improved antistatic characteristic.


Kirk Bayne

 

[Doug G.]

Cool!

Related to this, I have experienced two CD-4 records (correction: one CD-4 and the other QS) with tiny "fissures" radiating out from center to edge. One is The Hues Corporation "Rockin' Soul" and the other Steely Dan's "Countdown to Ecstasy". Of course, they create horrendous surface noise.

Unknown which compound was used with them and it's obvious it was a pressing flow problem.

Doug

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Cool!

Related to this, I have experienced two CD-4 records with tiny "fissures" radiating out from center to edge. One is The Hues Corporation "Rockin' Soul" and the other Steely Dan's "Countdown to Ecstasy". Of course, they create horrendous surface noise.

Unknown which compound was used with them and it's obvious it was a pressing flow problem.

Doug

Hmmm I remeber different about Count Down to Ecstasy. I thought it was matrix not CD-4. According to Mark Anderson's discography:

STEELY DAN -
Can't Buy a Thrill. Command CQD-40009 (QS), ABC 7022-758H (Q8)
Countdown to Ecstasy. Command CQD-40010 (QS), ABC C7022-779 & 7022-779H (Q8)
Pretzel Logic. Command CQD-40015 (QS)

Were there dual pressings?

And thanks Kirk for another very interesting find!

 

[Doug G.]

Oops, my mistake. You are correct, it's QS.

Doug

 

[kfbkfb]

https://books.google.com/books?id=3...AGegQIAhAC#v=onepage&q="q-540" "cd-4"&f=false^^^
It is expected that Q-540 will greatly accelerate the move to CD-4 recording.


If only!
Also, a rather candid statement about the "30,000 cycle carrier" and
conventional vinyl.


Kirk Bayne

 

[Marcsten]

The comment about how even after hundreds of plays the CD 4 carrier can't be diminished (my summation, not a quote) - har har. Not in the real world, Charlie.

 

[Doug G.]

Of course, it depends on what is meant by "hundreds". 300 is hundreds and 900 is hundreds. I would expect even regular two channel record frequencies would be diminished by 900 plays.

Doug

 

[Marcsten]

Of course - everything put together, sooner or later falls apart. But to claim that the carrier simply can't be diminished in reasonable use is false. Perhaps he was speaking in a laboratory setting. But not real world.

 

[Doug G.]

I don't think "hundreds" is reasonable use.

Doug

 

[Marcsten]

I agree. That's my point. They didn't last in far less usage, which is why it was so silly to say they would last hundreds.

 

[Doug G.]

I have several used CD-4 records I can tell had been subject to severe use. The audio range frequencies have audible distortion but the carriers are still there and a good CD-4 cartridge still tracks them and, as annoying they are to listen to because of mistracking of the audio range frequencies, they still have four discrete channels without the typical CD-4 distortions.

Doug

 

[Marcsten]

Maybe we are talking about the same thing and maybe we are not. The degradation I am referring to after a reasonable amount of use on a CD 4 is, for example, Road Angel on the Vices Doobie Bros album. Its the last song on the side, which can also lead to some issues, but the distortion that comes through the guitar solo in the rear channel is horrible. If you reduce the separation, it goes away, if you don't, there is separation although far less. That's what I am talking about when I say CD 4s are not as durable as ordinary vinyl despite having much better compounds.

 

[Doug G.]

It's a matter of having your turntable set up perfectly and having a very capable cartridge/stylus/demodulator. I can play that track with no problems in any channel.

I will agree that CD-4 is quite a bit more critical as to set up. Distortion can creep in at the slightest shortcoming.

Doug

 

[Marcsten]

Yes it is more susceptible to tt errors in geometry, but mine also played well for several months, and then it went downhill. A different setup might still play it correctly, but the fact is in the real world, my experience is not unusual.

 

[jaybird100]

Cool!

Related to this, I have experienced two CD-4 records (correction: one CD-4 and the other QS) with tiny "fissures" radiating out from center to edge. One is The Hues Corporation "Rockin' Soul" and the other Steely Dan's "Countdown to Ecstasy". Of course, they create horrendous surface noise.

Unknown which compound was used with them and it's obvious it was a pressing flow problem.

Doug

If I remember correctly, the Q-540 vinyl compound was used only in Japan. American CD-4 records were pressed on the same crappy vinyl that was used on stereo records, and in many cases, recycled vinyl. Trying to demodulate the carrier only made the noise problem worse. As for the Steely Dan (and other ABC Command quads), I have several of those, and they all play very well. No excess surface noise.

 

[Doug G.]

My other SD LPs are fine, too. The only one with the visible/audible marks was the C to E one. The other two LPs I have with the same flaw are Hues Corporation "Rockin' Soul" CD-4 and a standard stereo LP of the Lovin' Spoonful's greatest hits.

Doug

 

[Wurly1]

All my CD-4 records are from Japan except two. Japanese ones feel more like today's 180g releases. Tomita's Firebird is pristine and sound wonderful.
The ones made in America are The Doors Greatest Hits which plays flawlessly. The other which i bought brand new still in it's shrink-wrap is a Eugene Ormandy (RCA Red-Seal) and is plague by static and feel like ordinary vinyl.
Other than that i think the type of CD-4 decoder used can also produce more sandy noise.
My CD-4 decoder is all discrete components and the demodulator is tuned to the 30khz ferquency. On the other hand the CD-4 decoders using IC are smaller and cheaper to built and use PLL circuits (which work wonders in FM and many motor speed control system). Phase Locked Loop. While the 30khz is present this circuit locks to it perfectly but if the vinyl groove is damage, the PLL oscillator return to it's free running state. To my understanding of different circuits design, that can cause a lot of "sandy noise" before the front-back is being muted.
On the other hand on my discrete system, there is no oscillator therefore if the vinyl groove is damage, the 30khz signal diseapear and decoding simply cease and mute the front-back signal (meaning returning momentarily to stereo).
The only occurence of sandy noise in my case happen when the stylus is dirty.
Since i clean it before every CD-4 play CD-4 reproduction is very reliable for me.
I use SC cartridge epc-451. I have a yellow stylus for stereo records and a red shibata stylus for CD-4.

 

[Marcsten]

All my CD-4 records are from Japan except two. Japanese ones feel more like today's 180g releases. Tomita's Firebird is pristine and sound wonderful.
The ones made in America are The Doors Greatest Hits which plays flawlessly. The other which i bought brand new still in it's shrink-wrap is a Eugene Ormandy (RCA Red-Seal) and is plague by static and feel like ordinary vinyl.
Other than that i think the type of CD-4 decoder used can also produce more sandy noise.
My CD-4 decoder is all discrete components and the demodulator is tuned to the 30khz ferquency. On the other hand the CD-4 decoders using IC are smaller and cheaper to built and use PLL circuits (which work wonders in FM and many motor speed control system). Phase Locked Loop. While the 30khz is present this circuit locks to it perfectly but if the vinyl groove is damage, the PLL oscillator return to it's free running state. To my understanding of different circuits design, that can cause a lot of "sandy noise" before the front-back is being muted.
On the other hand on my discrete system, there is no oscillator therefore if the vinyl groove is damage, the 30khz signal diseapear and decoding simply cease and mute the front-back signal (meaning returning momentarily to stereo).
The only occurence of sandy noise in my case happen when the stylus is dirty.
Since i clean it before every CD-4 play CD-4 reproduction is very reliable for me.
I use SC cartridge epc-451. I have a yellow stylus for stereo records and a red shibata stylus for CD-4.

Wow you have a great setup. That definitely sounds like the way to go. My original point was that in the everyday world, CD 4 was just not reliable. Of course that was just my experience and several of my friends who were initially very pro quad (and CD 4) only to abandon it when their records went downhill. Which in my opinion is most of the reason for quads initially failing. That is neither disc system worked well over time.

 

[SteveT]

I have two CD-4 records. A Japanese pressing of Elvis’ Aloha from Hawaii and US quadradisc pressing of Elvis’ Promised Land.
I bought both records new in 1975 and played them hundreds of times on several stereo systems of varying quality for years.
Recently I came across a bloke with a fully working technics SS2900d integrated cd4 discrete system (vintage about 1975 I believe) with new quad cartridge and he gave an opportunity to play both records on his system.
The carrier signal was present on both records and both records played beautifully.

 

[Wurly1]

Of course that was just my experience and several of my friends who were initially very pro quad (and CD 4) only to abandon it when their records went downhill. Which in my opinion is most of the reason for quads initially failing. That is neither disc system worked well over time.

I believe this is only part of the reason. I think the main reason quad (and not only CD-4, but SQ records and Q8 cart) didn't succeeded it's because of poor 4ch mixing. For example on the Doors album, Only Riders On A Storm is interesting, all the other mixes have the drum and bass set located behind and sometimes only on the left channels. This is very harsh and agressive to ear specially on Light My Fire. Putting one instrument in each corner was the easy thing to do but not a great way to sell the Quad idea to audiophiles. Maybe mixing studios where simply not "quad ready"; multi-track (8+ tracks) recording capable to mix-down to 4 tracks.