(1985-10) REP mag - SQ/Tate & Buddy Rich Video

[kfbkfb]

https://worldradiohistory.com/Archi...g-Engineer/80s/Recording-1985-10.pdf#page=138^^^
SQ/Tate soundtrack production of David Bowie's Serious Moonlight


Kirk Bayne

 

[par4ken]

That article is about "Mr. Drums: Buddy Rich & His Band Live On King Street, San Francisco". I didn't even know (or forgot) about that one. I only knew about "Serious Moonlight" and Dolly Parton. The Buddy Rich album was available on MFSL LP and CD as well as Beta and VHS Hi-Fi and Laserdisc!

Does anyone here have it? I'll have to get myself a copy and the Dolly Parton laserdisc as well.

These articles are very frustrating for me, it shows what should have been the re-birth of quad/surround via Tate SQ nearly ten years after quad had originally been pronounced dead!. Too bad it (Tate SQ) didn't take off and been adopted by others.

Another major disappointment for me was the promise of discrete quad CD's. Quad was incorporated into the original red book standard but never implemented. Then we got DTS-CD's for awhile, until Brad Miller died.

Disappointment after disappointment after disappointment!

 

[kfbkfb]

I special ordered the Buddy Rich LD in 1985, I tried it w/QX-747 SQ decoder (analog audio, my CLD-900 has 1 switched DAC, so the digital output isn't suitable for matrix decoding), I wasn't impressed.

I bought the DVD (Tate SQ decoded -> DTS 4.0), directionality from this version is very good.


Kirk Bayne

 

[doity]

So how do you decode the audio? I actually just sold a two tape set of this, on MFSL cassettes........I wish that I had known as I have been looking for SQ cassettes.

 

[kfbkfb]

The LD, Beta HiFi & VHS HiFi releases are regular SQ encoded stereo (the LD has both CD format digital audio and CX encoded analog audio).

The DVD used the LD master videotape (SQ encoded stereo), it was decoded by a Tate SQ decoder and the output fed to both DD and DTS encoders to produce DD 4.0 and DTS 4.0 soundtracks.


Kirk Bayne

 

[doity]

The LD, Beta HiFi & VHS HiFi releases are regular SQ encoded stereo (the LD has both CD format digital audio and CX encoded analog audio).

The DVD used the LD master videotape (SQ encoded stereo), it was decoded by a Tate SQ decoder and the output fed to both DD and DTS encoders to produce DD 4.0 and DTS 4.0 soundtracks.


Kirk Bayne

Ok, I am going to pickup the VHS version. I have a Tate decoder so it should be a perfect match. Odd that this came out when it did. Just think if this came out a few years earlier, maybe it could had really helped with keeping Tate afloat awhile longer? We will never know though.

 

[doity]

I got the VHS tape a few weeks back and gave it a go tonight. The tape looked virtually unplayed and it had all of the inserts included. All looked unused. But the audio was somewhat muddy sounding. I haven’t viewed the video portion yet, but I suspect that it will match up with the “low-fi” audio portion quite well. Being VHS and all. Probably has to do with the way they duplicated them back in the day. Probably would had better quality if produced near the end of the VHS run in the marketplace.

It decoded well enough though and after I got it all dialed in I could enjoy it......even with the cruddy sound. The weird thing though is sometimes when the orange balance light would light up on the Tate, the audio would cut out for a split second in some of the channels. That has never happened on anything else, and usually means that everything is dialed in right. Thoughts?

 

[kfbkfb]

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/best-b...eo-head-cleaner-black/6463812.p?skuId=6463812
I found this wandering thru Best Buy recently, I bought several since I use (thrift shop purchased) VCRs to record from the digital TV reruns channels (some programs are Dolby Surround encoded) every day.


Kirk Bayne

 

[doity]

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/best-b...eo-head-cleaner-black/6463812.p?skuId=6463812
I found this wandering thru Best Buy recently, I bought several since I use (thrift shop purchased) VCRs to record from the digital TV reruns channels (some programs are Dolby Surround encoded) every day.


Kirk Bayne

Yeah I have some of those laying around. I don’t think that the head is dirty as there are no dropouts.....it just has no punch and the recording level sounds somewhat low. I even tried it on another VCR and it is the same. Probably they used low quality tape back then and combined with the high speed duplication......well it is what it is. And the VCR I am using is a nice Mitsubishi SVHS deck with “Perfectape” which did ‘something’. Not really sure what though. The innards look near pristine but I will clean the heads to be sure.

 

[par4ken]

I got the VHS tape a few weeks back and gave it a go tonight. The tape looked virtually unplayed and it had all of the inserts included. All looked unused. But the audio was somewhat muddy sounding. I haven’t viewed the video portion yet, but I suspect that it will match up with the “low-fi” audio portion quite well. Being VHS and all. Probably has to do with the way they duplicated them back in the day. Probably would had better quality if produced near the end of the VHS run in the marketplace.

It decoded well enough though and after I got it all dialed in I could enjoy it......even with the cruddy sound. The weird thing though is sometimes when the orange balance light would light up on the Tate, the audio would cut out for a split second in some of the channels. That has never happened on anything else, and usually means that everything is dialed in right. Thoughts?

I have the MFSL CD and although it's not overly bright, I wouldn't say that it's muddy sounding. Just wondering if you are listening to the HiFIi audio or just the linear sound track?

 

[doity]

Well it’s a stereo VHS tape and I am running it straight into the Tate. The deck even has meters, so I can see that it’s outputting both channels. It just doesn’t sound that great is all.

 

[par4ken]

Well it’s a stereo VHS tape and I am running it straight into the Tate. The deck even has meters, so I can see that it’s outputting both channels. It just doesn’t sound that great is all.

Yes but is it a HiFi VHS deck?

Beta HiFi machines were stereo but only had mono audio on the linear audio track. VHS had some stereo machines that weren't HiFi. The linear audio track on both VHS and Beta was not that good, perhaps worse than cassette sound. The Hifi audio was done with a carrier like FM radio and sounded very good, rivalling CD sound. So I suspect that either your VHS is not HiFi or it is HiFi but the sound is (perhaps) set to play the linear audio track. Don't expect very good sound in that case.

 

[doity]

Yes but is it a HiFi VHS deck?

Beta HiFi machines were stereo but only had mono audio on the linear audio track. VHS had some stereo machines that weren't HiFi. The linear audio track on both VHS and Beta was not that good, perhaps worse than cassette sound. The Hifi audio was done with a carrier like FM radio and sounded very good, rivalling CD sound. So I suspect that either your VHS is not HiFi or it is HiFi but the sound is (perhaps) set to play the linear audio track. Don't expect very good sound in that case.

Yes, I checked and it’s a HiFi deck model U-781. I tested another tape, a 2003 movie with Dolby Surround and used the Surround mode on the Tate. It sounds good with plenty volume and presence. It also had decent Surround effects. I would equate the two tapes in cassette lingo as one being recorded on a TDK D90 tape, and one recorded onto a TDK SA90. I mean it is listenable, but it is not CD quality by a long shot. And I owned the Cafe Records tape set, so I know how good it can sound. Oh well.

 

[kfbkfb]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/394012796362?epid=9046028330&hash=item5bbcfe25ca:g:eNYAAOSwUL9iR3iS
This is the DVD I have (also have the SQ encoded LD and Beta HiFi)


Kirk Bayne

 

[doity]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/394012796362?epid=9046028330&hash=item5bbcfe25ca:g:eNYAAOSwUL9iR3iS
This is the DVD I have (also have the SQ encoded LD and Beta HiFi)


Kirk Bayne

How does the LD sound Kirk? I have a few nice players kicking around somewhere, but haven’t used them in years. Have loads of laserdiscs, including a box full of the original ‘Discovision’ titles just gathering dust. If the online price was right I might spring for the laserdisc just for kicks. I viewed the video on a small TV and the picture wasn’t that bad. The audio just seems subdued.

 

[barfle]

Yeah I have some of those laying around. I don’t think that the head is dirty as there are no dropouts.....it just has no punch and the recording level sounds somewhat low. I even tried it on another VCR and it is the same. Probably they used low quality tape back then and combined with the high speed duplication......well it is what it is. And the VCR I am using is a nice Mitsubishi SVHS deck with “Perfectape” which did ‘something’. Not really sure what though. The innards look near pristine but I will clean the heads to be sure.

One thing about consumer video tape formats: audio wasn’t a priority intil the “hi-fi” additions came along. The audio spec isn’t far off of the cassette spec in terms of tape speed and track width. They are recorded on the top edge in both Beta and VHS, and are subject to stray magnetic fields like you get from speakers and CRT TVs.

 

[kfbkfb]

How does the LD sound Kirk?

The Buddy Rich SQ LD sounds excellent, it has the then new CD format PCM stereo audio + CX NR encoded FM analog stereo audio.

I didn't get an SQ decoder until late 1991 (in a Pioneer QX-747), I could only use the CX analog audio for SQ decoding since my Pioneer CLD-900 has 1 shared DAC for the CD/PCM audio and thus a small time delay between L and R which messes up SQ decoding.


Kirk Bayne