Connecting vintage equipment - Properly this time - Please help!!

[Quadgirl]

Hi, everyone.

My brain is now mush - I've spent days online searching and trying not to have to rely yet again on your kindness and wisdom, but now am at my wit's end. I tend to get wordy, but will try to keep this succinct, but with enough info. that I hope some or many can actually give me specific guidance.

The situation is that the wonderful Jim at QRX restorations has repaired 4 of my Sansui 9001 boards and modded them, so I'm going to have the best quad system I ever dreamed of. I'll detail my findings later about Jim's work, but if you don't know the saga, I had a QuadBob restored 9001 with horrible popping/cracking sounds in right rear almost since I got it back from him after he "restored" it. Alas, Jim found some surprises about my "restore" job that were unpleasant, so he had to do more work than he expected. I will be glad to quote him for anyone interested, but that is for another day. Now that I have taken the 9001 out and it is opened up on the kitchen table awaiting my boards which will get back to me next week, I am convinced that I never had my SNR-1s and DBX -400s properly connected. What I am asking here, and treat me as if I'm half illiterate so I can get it right, is for proper connecting instructions to get my system fully integrated. I will list my components next and hope you tell me specifically how to connect everything. Here is a link to the DBX 400 owners manual: http://www.dbxpro.com/product_downloads/Owner_Manuals/400 Owners Manual.pdf I could not find a manual online for the SNR-1s. I wish to make all of the following equipment work together - it is cobbled together now, but I really am doubting I have the SNR's in right - don't know if they go in NR decode part or are counted as another "processor," and seems like they are supposed to be activated when using the "tape" not "source" select on the SNR-1 front panel and mine definitely need "source" right now (temporary hook-up through Marantz unit while I wait for 9001). So, my equipment:

Sansui 9001 with really only one 4 channel tape loop
Akai CR80DSS quad deck
Technics quad deck - yes, I need both for different tapes and in case one is acting up
Dbx 400 (2 of them, one for front, one rears and one is the 400x model if that matters)
Dbx SNR-1 (2 of these that I doubt were ever put in correctly since they make no difference in sound to me - need really specific advice if you have it on connecting these. All my equipment works with some button pushing and such, but just not sure about these.)
CD-400 CD-4 demodulator
Marantz 6300 turntable
Panasonic universal player for playing DTS conversions

Now that my 9001 will be at its best ever in QS-ing my albums, I want to be sure it does the decoding for SQ and QS. With the turntable going through the CD-400, will it just let the 9001 process or will I need to use the "direct out" left and right to send the signal back to phono in on 9001? This is what a fellow quaddie here recently told me, if I'm correct. Again, I think I've lost some brain cells in obsessing about finally getting this system right! Maybe inhaled too much Corrosion X or something. My system is very difficult to get to - have to move speakers and whole rack out, almost simultaneously, and have only a little wiggle room due to side-by-side HT system, so when I pull it all out, check all cables and such and re-connect the 9001, I'd sure like to finally be somewhere near quad plug-n-play nirvana!! I'm embarrassed to have to ask how to do this right, but for all the trouble this QuadBob "restored" unit has been and all the expense, he did talk me through initial connections years ago by phone, but I've since added the SNR's and 400s, so now just want to be precise. The language on these units has never made sense to me - seems like I usually think exactly backwards. Oh - final question: could dbx 200s be "better" or less prone to problems since they don't plug into electricity? I have 2 of these as well, but thought the 400s might be newer or better. Thanks in advance if anyone can help. If you'd prefer, certainly feel free to PM me, otherwise, maybe one other person might also be helped here - who knows?

Laura

 

[Quadgirl]

I think the link to the dbx manual didn't copy right - trying again here so you can actually see what they name each input and output:

http://www.dbxpro.com/product_downloads/Owner_Manuals/400 Owners Manual.pdf

 

[jefe1]

I would be interested in this too and since many here have vintage receivers, this could almost be made into a sticky thread for hook up reccomendations. I sympathize with you Quadgirl for what you're going thru, and for having to pay for something twice that should have been done right the first time. My quadbob restored 9001 has had similar problems to yours as others here have reported.
One question i have is with a built in cd4 demodulater that is supposed to be one of the best, why wouldn't you connect your turntable directly to the 9001 instead of using an outboard demodulater?

 

[Quadgirl]

Hi, Jefe1.
Thanks for posting and commiserating! Since your QB restored unit has had similar problems, you might also be interested in going to Jim's website (he has photos up and all kinds of information there - he is professional and truly knows what he is doing and I cannot wait to hear my "new" unit when I get the boards back in and get all set up. The reason I use the CD-400 outboard demodulator (and will be buying the Lou Dorren demodulator when it is ready) is that Sansui's is not as discrete. Sansui is awesome, and will be moreso with the "dif mod" I'll now have, with QS and SQ. I have A/B'd using the Sansui versus the CD-400 on CD-4 albums, so believe this to be true for me at least. But, now I want to make sure I get the best out of SQ and QS, so hence the question about the "direct out" on the demodulator. Somehow, it seems intuitively (and as I said, I'm usually backwards in thinking) that the demodulating for SQ and QS would still have to be coming from the Sansui even without another set of cables from "direct out" back into the Sansui, but I want to know for sure to max out my quad experience.

Anyway, thanks for speaking up about the sticky thread hook up idea. I know lots of y'all know this stuff inside and out, but surely there are folks who love quad and don't have expertise in connecting equipment properly. Maybe this is what keeps some people from getting into quad in the first place - lots of equipment. I love the equipment and the music and sure can't wait to have this right. I hope Dave, or Quadfather or anyone who may have this exact equipment or knowledge of it will be able to help. Otherwise, it will be trial and error, but with lots of variables! Ha! Thanks again.

Laura

 

[Doug G.]

Hi Laura,

I'll have a look at the dbx manual later but for now:

And I'm the wise gu... I mean fellow quaddie who suggested using the direct output of the Marantz CD-400.

It will work either way with the demodulator either just sending the signals out to whatever input you use on the Sansui and letting the CD-400 switch back and forth from CD-4 to regular stereo/matrix - or sending the signals also out of the direct output into the phono input of the Sansui and switching the Sansui to phono when you want to play stereo or matrix quad records.

The reason I would use the second method is that the signals are going through less electronics as the direct output is basically straight from the turntable and should be "cleaner".

Doug

 

[Doug G.]

OK, I've looked at the dbx 400 manual and I see it is a kind of switching center to conveniently connect signal processors, a noise reduction system, and tape decks.

So yes, it goes in the tape loop of the Sansui (or currently, the Marantz). Then, the SNR-1 connects to the noise reduction loop on the dbx 400. The two tape decks connect to the tape loops on the dbx 400.

I'm sure this is how you have it.

Then when you play a tape, you want the signal to go through the SNR-1 so the noise (hiss) reduction is accomplished.

Since the SNR-1 is single ended, you don't need to worry about running the signal through the noise reduction device (SNR-1) while recording. It just acts on the signals coming from the source (tape deck) during playback.

Of course, for quad, you need to have units connected to both the front and back circuits but that shouldn't unnecessarily complicate things (except for all the extra wires getting tangled up with each other, even when they are just laying there). It's just like two stereos.

That's the basics and I apologize if I am being obvious and this is how you already do it. @:

We can get more specific.

Doug

 

[jefe1]

Thanks Doug for your reccomendations.
However I beleive the SNR-1 is single ended. It is meant to remove/lower tape hiss in the background. I suppose for recording purposes you could play a tape or record with it on to reduce the hiss and then record it, but it is not an encoding system per se like DBX noise reduction is, ie, dbx records and tapes which must be decoded for playback.
Of course I could be completely wrong here and please correct me if so.

With the dbx connector boxes, it gets complcated hooking up a pair for 4 channel playback, designating one box for the front speakers or front inputs and the other for the rears and making sure the input and output signals to the receiver go to the correct box.

You cn even add another dbx box to switch center speaker inputs for another amplifier or receiver.
I just don't have enough brain power to sort it all out...!!!

 

[Doug G.]

Oops, no, you are absolutely correct and I had my units mixed up!

Well, that simplifies things a bit since you only need to run the siganls through the SNR-1 on playback.

I am going to edit my response above to correct things.

Doug

 

[Doug G.]

Actually, thinking about this further, I believe it would be better to just connect the SNR-1(s) to the dbx 400(s) as a processor instead of a noise reduction system since it is single ended.

I mean, it really is just another processor since it's not doing anything for recording.

Then, when you play any source, you can just route the signal through that processor although it's mainly meant for reducing hiss from tapes.

Doug

 

[Quadgirl]

Thanks Doug and Jefe1.
I'm not positive, but do think I currently have the SNR-1s connected as processors, not NR. I will be pulling everything out from the wall on Thursday when my boards get here, so will play around a bit and see if there is a difference. I think I did connect the Marantz differently in some aspect since it has more inputs, but not really sure. Will be going through the tape loop to connect dbx 400s on the Sansui as you suggested and use the direct out for a direct connection for the turntable - I like that idea. Now, I saw something in the dbx 400 online manual that suggested not having to have cables return back to the tape decks from the dbx 400s - I'll double check it since it is confusing, but I do believe I did plug everything in that could be plugged in. I'd sure love to reduce some cabling if I can! Again, Doug, thanks so much for your continued help here!
Laura

 

[Doug G.]

If you don't record to the tape decks you would only need cables from the outputs of them to the dbx 400s which would be two for the front and two for the back.

That would eliminate four cables!

Doug

 

[jefe1]

The ultimate test is to make all the connections while blindfolded and then push the right buttons on the dbxs....