HiRez Poll Genesis - ...AND THEN THERE WERE THREE [SACD]
- Thread starter JonUrban
- Start date
Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:
Voting a 5 on this one. Much more unlistenable when compared to Trick and Wind and Wuthering. Have to listen to Duke a few more times but I think "Duke" is close to this one. Compressed and the detailing is not even there when compared to some of the others in the box. Some of the songs sound okay but my short evaluation is that the mix was probably okay but someone messed up the mastering and therefore the end result is generally crap.
Did this album *ever* sound as good as the two before it?
IMO, no.
IMO, no.
Well currently (as I don't have a turntable but I do have the LP's), I can't tell you. I just have the DE CD's and most of those don't sound that great anyway. Anyway, I have decided that this Genesis box is the last one of these I am going to purchase. I don't even want to hear how the early Genesis Gabriel era titles are butchered. I don't think I could take it. As it is, some members here that are younger have had their favorite titles from the 1976-82 era presented to them in a version that is totally unaccepable to them.
Played this after The Beatles "Love" last night which has warmth, space and dynamic range. In comparison, this sounds cold, harsh and unsubtle. Trick and Wind are a bit better I think, just. Nice to have surround mixes of these Genesis discs, just a pity that they sound so hard and "in your face", a 5.
Well I will be posting the same info. for each cd as I got the box 76-82(Sacd and NTSC) and as Trick and W & W were my favorite cd's/lp's from past they are still my favorite after these multi channels came out. I am not bothered by the compression used and am enjoying the extra details coming out in each sacd and after each listen. I think Nick Davis has done a good job on these mix's. I will give ATTWT a score of 7(7 for music and 7 m/c mix).
I also enjoy the extra disk which has songs I had never heard before.
I would rate extra cd as 8 music and a 8 for m/c mix.
I do agree that of all the cd's this one does sound the most in your face and as I don't have the cd(I had the LP but have no turnatable) I am not sure if that is how this was recorded in the first place, this one will get the least playing time not because of that but because I think the song writing was weaker for this album.
I also enjoy the extra disk which has songs I had never heard before.
I would rate extra cd as 8 music and a 8 for m/c mix.
I do agree that of all the cd's this one does sound the most in your face and as I don't have the cd(I had the LP but have no turnatable) I am not sure if that is how this was recorded in the first place, this one will get the least playing time not because of that but because I think the song writing was weaker for this album.
I'm not a big post-Gabriel fan of Genesis but I own most of their albums on vinyl.
Let me tell you I give it a 10 mainly for the package (I bought PAL version), which includes a mch SACD,a DVD-V with great bonus material and of course a DD/DTS version of SACD content.
DTS is 96/24 and DD is 48/24 but they play very well and this kind of package IS what I'd love to get when I bough a mch disc.
Now said that I agree with you this title (and the others) has too much mastering compression sometimes irritates me, especially on reverberation...
my vote is 10/10 anyway because if it did sounded less compressed I would have voted 15/10...
btw, I'm gonna give 10/10 to other releases too.
Let me tell you I give it a 10 mainly for the package (I bought PAL version), which includes a mch SACD,a DVD-V with great bonus material and of course a DD/DTS version of SACD content.
DTS is 96/24 and DD is 48/24 but they play very well and this kind of package IS what I'd love to get when I bough a mch disc.
Now said that I agree with you this title (and the others) has too much mastering compression sometimes irritates me, especially on reverberation...
my vote is 10/10 anyway because if it did sounded less compressed I would have voted 15/10...
btw, I'm gonna give 10/10 to other releases too.
I had this title once on cassette and always enjoyed the songs. So....bought the SACD along with Abacab and Duke.
The good: excellent use of the surrounds. Collin's vocals were clear but a bit too bright.
Not so good: I agree the recording is a bit too bright, hard, but that has always been my experience with Phil Collins' CD's. Along with the extended highs, the recording is thin and lacks bass. For multichannel music, I use bass mgmt, with the sub crossed at 80hz, and for ATTWT, I had to boost my sub to twice the normal calibrated volume level to get satisfying bass & help balance the highs. The Abacab SACD is a much better balanced and overall superior recording.
I still like the songs, and the discrete surrounds are very good, so gave it a 6. I'd have given it a 9 if the recordings were better mastered.
The good: excellent use of the surrounds. Collin's vocals were clear but a bit too bright.
Not so good: I agree the recording is a bit too bright, hard, but that has always been my experience with Phil Collins' CD's. Along with the extended highs, the recording is thin and lacks bass. For multichannel music, I use bass mgmt, with the sub crossed at 80hz, and for ATTWT, I had to boost my sub to twice the normal calibrated volume level to get satisfying bass & help balance the highs. The Abacab SACD is a much better balanced and overall superior recording.
I still like the songs, and the discrete surrounds are very good, so gave it a 6. I'd have given it a 9 if the recordings were better mastered.
This one is definitely not only the worst album in the blue box set, but also the worst in Genesis' entire career (not counting From Genesis to Revelation).
The album can be divided into 3 sets as far as the quality of the songs and the mix:
Good (8-10 rating): Undertow, Burning Rope, Many Too Many, Follow You Follow Me
Fair (5-7): Down and Out, Deep in the Motherlode, The Lady Lies
Bad (2-4): Ballad of Big, Snowbound, Scenes from a Night's Dream, Say It's Alright Joe
All that being said, this 5.1 mix is still better than both the original and new stereo mixes, but Genesis have done much better than this.
The album can be divided into 3 sets as far as the quality of the songs and the mix:
Good (8-10 rating): Undertow, Burning Rope, Many Too Many, Follow You Follow Me
Fair (5-7): Down and Out, Deep in the Motherlode, The Lady Lies
Bad (2-4): Ballad of Big, Snowbound, Scenes from a Night's Dream, Say It's Alright Joe
All that being said, this 5.1 mix is still better than both the original and new stereo mixes, but Genesis have done much better than this.
er..you do realize that Genesis made albums after that one, right? Some of which I find to be as bad or worse.
Yes, I have their whole catalogue and believe it or not I like their later albums better than this one, but none of the later ones are as good as their first 7.
kap'n krunch
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Oh , man , "The Lady Lies" is a classic prog song that is incredible...they be jammin'!!! especially at the end!!!!!
(Don't agree with your ratings-I don't have to, but it's cool if you rate them this way..it's curious you have FYFM on the top spots...I was always underwhelmed by that song...zzzzzzz......)
Well, it is a transitional album and , let's face it, I love Mike , but he never was a lead guitarist and could never fill Steve shoes'...this is when Tony's controlling dream came true, before Phil took over on "Abacab"...
Musically , I like the album way more than "Duke", which I find "darker", but to me "Duke" was their last "prog" LP, after that, they sold out big time...
Yes, yes, the mixes are bright, but they are good----
and , what can I say..Genesis in SURROUND???
whew, another wet dream come true...
So, after working my way through the Gabriel era box and the later years box, I am now getting to the middle period. I really wasn't expecting much on this one as it's the lowest rated Genesis album in the polls. However, when the album opened up I was pleasantly surprised. The first track "Down and Out" opens with Banks' synth strings in front, but then Rutherford's guitars kick in from the rear channels. A synth melody is heard from over your left shoulder. I remained cautiously optimistic. On several other Genesis albums, Nick Davis has some tracks aggressively mixed but others not so much. However, on this album there seems to be a consistency regarding the mixing philosophy on all of the songs. As opposed to the approach on Trespass or Nursery Cryme where lots of instruments are hard panned to one of the rear channels, Davis likes to put a lot of information in the rears either is stereo or dead center. Although he does occasionally hard pan some things like a synth melody during the bridge of "Deep in the Motherlode" which is panned hard rear left. The mix here has an immersive feel similar to that of We Can't Dance or Calling All Stations, however on this one I don't find myself wishing for more discrete elements in the rears. I think Davis got the balance a bit better here. I'm really loving "Scenes From a Night's Dream". Counter vocal lines and Rutherford's electric 12-string are nicely deployed to the rears in stereo. And the opening of "Say It's Alright Joe" sounds surprisingly good, considering that it's an upmix. However, once the full band kicks in, it's less impressive. I can't fault Davis for that though, the multi-tracks were missing.
As for the fidelity, it's not the best sounding Genesis title, but it's certainly not the worst. It didn't feel fatiguing or shrill like Invisible Touch.
And as for the quality of the material, this is certainly a hotly debated topic amongst Genesis fans, It's not proggy enough for the early fans and (other than the last track) not poppy enough for the later fans. They are clearly in transition here. They want to make more accessible music but aren't ready to completely leave the prog behind. There are quite a few tunes here that I really love,"Down and Out" and "The Lady Lies" in particular. I can see why fans at the time would have felt disappointed. It's certainly not of the caliber of the albums that preceded it. And they would follow it up with an album that was a significant improvement. However it's an album that I can listen to start to finish without feeling the urge to hit the skip button on any songs. I can't say that about We Can't Dance, Genesis or Invisible Touch. And overall I think it's a stronger selection of songs than Abacab.
A pleasantly consistent mix, not wildly discrete but more than enough in the surround fields to keep me happy. Fidelity not amazing but far from awful. Not the band's best material but far from their worst, and all of it pretty enjoyable with a few standout moments. It's probably an 8.5. I was pleasantly surprised so I will round up to a 9.
As for the fidelity, it's not the best sounding Genesis title, but it's certainly not the worst. It didn't feel fatiguing or shrill like Invisible Touch.
And as for the quality of the material, this is certainly a hotly debated topic amongst Genesis fans, It's not proggy enough for the early fans and (other than the last track) not poppy enough for the later fans. They are clearly in transition here. They want to make more accessible music but aren't ready to completely leave the prog behind. There are quite a few tunes here that I really love,"Down and Out" and "The Lady Lies" in particular. I can see why fans at the time would have felt disappointed. It's certainly not of the caliber of the albums that preceded it. And they would follow it up with an album that was a significant improvement. However it's an album that I can listen to start to finish without feeling the urge to hit the skip button on any songs. I can't say that about We Can't Dance, Genesis or Invisible Touch. And overall I think it's a stronger selection of songs than Abacab.
A pleasantly consistent mix, not wildly discrete but more than enough in the surround fields to keep me happy. Fidelity not amazing but far from awful. Not the band's best material but far from their worst, and all of it pretty enjoyable with a few standout moments. It's probably an 8.5. I was pleasantly surprised so I will round up to a 9.
Well, this is where many early fans jump ship, no? I didn't grow up with their albums so I don't really have a horse in this race. The 5.1 mix on the SACD is about average I'd say. I'm giving it a 7, which is the lowest rating I've given a Genesis disc in these boxes. Fine, but not totally immersive if you know what I mean. Not enough use of the rears for one thing. As for the music itself - again, average. I mean it sounds like Genesis, and a few tracks are actually pretty good. Only not much stands out if you're familiar with any of the 1970 - 1976 studio LPs.
I give it 3, being really nice. This is the worst ever multichannel mix I ever heard. A pure mess. Image is inconsistent, voice levels are inconsistent. There is no LF content on the kick and the drums is undermixed. But all of suddent, a bass synths line will pop with so much bass content that it masks everything, and then we are back to no low frequency, like it was mixed by a trainee. This really is a major major major disapointment. At least I get an example of what to avoid doing.
Listening to 'The Lady Lies". Phil's vocal is absurdly, obnoxiously high in this mix.
If he's mainly in the center channel, this can be fixed.
The EQ is very bright, but I hear substantial SW content too.
If he's mainly in the center channel, this can be fixed.
The EQ is very bright, but I hear substantial SW content too.
Similar threads
- Sticky
- Poll
- Poll
