HiRez Poll King Crimson - BEAT [DVD-Audio/Blu-Ray Audio]

[rtbluray]

Please post your thoughts and comments on this 2016 5.1 surround mix of the classic 1982 album "Beat" by King Crimson.

The 2016 5.1 surround mix is available in a simple CD/DVDA-V configuration as part of the King Crimson 40th anniversary series.
It is also available on Blu-Ray Audio as part of the expansive box set entitled "On (& Off) The Road 1981-1984". (The box set also contains the same DVD-A/V disc.)

 

[ssully]

It boggles my mind that (according to liner notes) both Belew and Bruford thought this album was superior to Discipline.

To my ears Beat (and the next album to an extent) has always been mainly a repurposing, to lesser effect, of sonic elements and tactics that were new and fresh on Discipline. A couple of the tracks began life as instrumentals on the Discipline tour, where they were ferocious (I saw two of the Savoy shows; I can testify). They were tamed for the album, mainly by adding Belew's annoying vocals. SW's surround mix makes 'Neurotica' (originally 'Manhattan') tougher again, though still not Savoy-tough. He does well enough with 'Neal and Jack and Me', and 'Waiting Man', 'The Howler' and the two lame Belew ballads. But he seems to have missed an element in 'Sartori in Tangier' ...the original mix has a Fripprtronics gloss during the 'dreamy' section, that I'm not hearing in his remix. The real gem is the extended 'Requiem', which now starts with a few minutes of 1979-vintage Frippertronics and then builds to a great surround freak-out. The bonus instrumental 'Absent Lovers' is also a worthy uptempo addition.

 

[rtbluray]

People wanted a review and here it is!
The surround mix on "Neal and Jack and Me" is a good solid mix but nothing absolutely exceptional. Adrian's voice gets passed around at one point, but other than that, it's not really flashy at all, but everything is well balanced and well placed.
Same goes with "Heartbeat". It's a well-balanced, well-placed, solid mix, but nothing really memorable.
Things do get a little more adventurous on the follow-up track, "Sartori in Tangier". Some synth samples get passed around, plus the congas on the left surround side are a nice effect in the middle section.
"Waiting Man" also has a nice mix that separates out all of its interweaving layers very nicely in surround sound.
"Neurotica", with all of its frantic energy, is one of the biggest highlights of the entire disc, while "Two Hands" is not a surround standout at all.
Finishing off the disc is a very full and discrete mix of "The Howler" before we get to what is probably the best moment, the extended version of "Requiem".
Once the drums kick in, it's a very intense mix and closes off the album in such a haunting and jarring way!

The more I have listened to this disc, the more I have come to love it! It's not perfect, but the reason it gets a '10' is because I feel like Steven Wilson's surround mix has brought the album as far along as it can possibly go, and fidelity is also exceptional!

 

[drphibes]

I'm giving this a six. Put down the torches and pitchforks, I can explain.

1. I rarely give 10. 8, 9 and 10s are things I really like.
2. I am really unlikely to go back to this album. When i'm in the mood for this sound, I'll just listen to Discipline all over again.
3. The surround mix is fine, but I didn't go "wow" like I did when I first heard discipline.
4. This is not Steven Wilson's high water mark in terms of mixes, if you ask me.

Don't get me wrong, it's Crimson, and I like it, but it's not going to be in heavy rotation. Six it is.

 

[IanProudfoot]

Well this is an odd one. I'm not sure that the surround mix is really what I would expect from Steven Wilson, perhaps Mr Fripp's input has had an undesirable effect? The lead vocals seem to be spread to all four corners with almost nothing in the centre which gives an undefined and unexpected result. The Sub has very little going on which is a lost opportunity considering the wonderfully tuneful bass that drives the album.

Maybe it's my system? Does anyone else have these problems?

Third listen and it's a 6 or 7 out of 10. But I'll hold off voting until I can confirm that what I'm hearing is correct.

 

[jimfisheye]

This album just blew my mind last night.

Steven Wilson has hit a new benchmark in his surround mixing here. The best way I can describe it is every instrument is presented in surround sound vs. the instruments merely having a location in the surround soundstage. But that's still going on too!

I always considered this the weaker album of the 3 '80s albums. I'm going to blame that on the original "rough mix" and original format limitations now.
My favorites remain the same (Satori, Manhattan, Howler, Requiem). My least favorite is still Two Hands (but now that it is presented like this I think it adds to the album as it originally was intended to.)

Requiem just floored me! Free of the original edits for vinyl length, the journey this piece takes you on is just amazing. Hearing the detail of Fripp's fretless gtr soloing and the drums like never before. And the loops (when they become backdrop) still there in the mix. Tony's parts that didn't become audible until the very end originally.

I really had no idea how gutted the original was by the edits in Requiem and the buried Fripp solos throughout. This finally somehow stands up as a proper next album after the untouchable Discipline.

I need some time to decompress before I touch anything else in this amazingly complete box set. And reassess some of the mixing work I have going on at the moment too!

 

[ssully]

Requiem just floored me! Free of the original edits for vinyl length, the journey this piece takes you on is just amazing. Hearing the detail of Fripp's fretless gtr soloing and the drums like never before. And the loops (when they become backdrop) still there in the mix. Tony's parts that didn't become audible until the very end originally.

That's no fretless guitar. It's (one of ) Fripp's black beauty classic Les Paul Customs. And Levin is audible well before the end , on the original mix...it's hard to miss him, beginning about 2 minutes in.

 

[colsky]

This has always been my favourite of the 3 KC 80's albums. This may be because the first time that I saw KC live was on the tour for this album (12 September 1982 at Hammersmith Palais, London) so I may have a soft spot for it. It may be because I prefer blue to red. Or it may simply be that I prefer the tunes!

Anyway, I'm loving what SW has done with this. I don't get a lack of bass in this mix, its fine with me. And the extended Requiem is stunning, as a musical piece and as a surround mix.

Love it - 10 - :brew

 

[jimfisheye]

That's no fretless guitar. It's (one of ) Fripp's black beauty classic Les Paul Customs. And Levin is audible well before the end , on the original mix...it's hard to miss him, beginning about 2 minutes in.

Sorry, "buried" then. I'm saying the mix is revealing of the bits that classically get buried in mixes.

You think that's a whammy bar on a Paul? It sounds like fretless licks to me. We know they both were sporting fretless guitars around this time. And they certainly used them for more than just the track Sleepless! Some of those glissandos are too long to be bends. And I'm not hearing whammy artifacts. I am hearing fretless gtr artifacts! Anyway, I always thought that was a fretless solo all these years. If I'm wrong, well shucks!

Anyway...
Great as the original was (and better than most mixes and all that), a lot of Fripps gtr was buried and the drums had this polite electronic vibe. Hearing this with the weight of a live band and with the masterpiece improv closing track restored, I feel like this is finally presented as it should have been originally had it been possible and I finally "get it".

 

[blue.monk]

I remember being quite surprised back in ’82 when Beat was released a mere 9 months after Discipline. And I also remember being disappointed in what I felt was a lackluster offering compared to its brilliant, fresh and innovative predecessor. I have since warmed up to much of Beat but still think of it as Discipline’s weaker cousin.

The mix here is very solid and engaging but there are times, such as with the opening track, where the vocal is too prominent for my tastes and is (uncharacteristically for SW) distributed evenly over the 5 channels. I love the extended “Requiem” with its lengthier intro. It’s curious that they felt the need to edit it back in the day given the album’s original 35-minute running time. Oh well, glad it's been restored here. The bonus surround cut is nifty. An 8 overall for me.

 

[martin russell]

I just got round to hearing this - Santa bought me 'Tales from Topographic Oceans' and 'Beat' and I spent quite a while digesting TFTO, getting used to how one of my absolute favourite albums has been transformed, and listening again and again. I left 'Beat' until last because it's my favourite KC album (I'm afraid the classic 70's stuff hasn't aged particularly well for me) - the addition of Belew and Levin, the 'gamelan' concept used in some of the tracks and the sound palette all worked superbly for me and were the possibly band's finest hour, imho - and it's been a very long wait while all the other stuff got released first. I'd also had the privilege of listening to what must have been a very early 5.1 mix of it when I worked with Neil Wilkes on the authoring of the Dorothee Munyaneza DVD-A album a few years back, so felt as though I already had some idea of what it was going to be like. I guess it must have been re-worked a great deal in the intervening period because I just wasn't as thrilled as I'd expected to be. Maybe I'm idealising what I remember, these mixes are ok but imaging-wise there's something very different going on. They seem a lot less discrete - I'm not exactly sure and will have to live with it a while longer before adding my 10c-worth to the poll.

Why I'm writing this now, however, is that I wasn't able to get the video extras to play without setting my player to prioritise Video as opposed to being in DVD-A mode, which I've never had happen previously. In DVD-A mode if I select any of them on the Extras menu the cursor just moves up to 'Original Mix' in the Audio Extras part of the menu. Weird. My player (Panasonic DV 656A - generallly plays very nicely with all things DVD-A) very briefly displays 'Search' then displays 'Still'. Did anyone else experience this this?

 

[ssully]

Steven Wilson, why did you make Adrian's vocal *so prominent* on 'The Howler" at the expense of everyone else? And why isn't Bruford, especially, more crisp in the mix? It's all about the snare, dude!

 

[Big Stevie]

Apologies, if this has been addressed elsewhere - but the booklet lists 2 additional Bonus tracks for the 2016 Stereo mix (Neal and Jack alt. take, Absent Lovers live Oxford) which I am unable to find?
Thanks!

 

[The Rang]

Apologies, if this has been addressed elsewhere - but the booklet lists 2 additional Bonus tracks for the 2016 Stereo mix (Neal and Jack alt. take, Absent Lovers live Oxford) which I am unable to find?
Thanks!

I had the same issue with one of the KC discs.
I found the missing tracks in the extras menu on the DVD

 

[Albert Dagger]

I've been playing this release regularly for the last two years. It's a 9 for me: fidelity 10, music 9.5, surround mix 9, stereo mix 8.

The surround mix is great, with lots of highlights. My favourite mixes are: Neurotica, Waiting Man, Sartori in Tangier and Neal and Jack and Me. There are so many layers in these songs that they really benefit from the surround treatment.

Belew's voice has less reverb than the original mix, but wasn't panned dead centre, which is a curious mixing choice for SW. I still hear it in the middle of the room, floating above my head (spread equally on the five speakers?).

Instruments are more balanced than the original mix, where bass and drums were far too high (especially in the early CDs, before the 30th remasters). However, I miss sometimes the dynamics of the old CDs (when listening to the new stereo mix, the surround is great!). In stereo, it can sound very congested at times, such as in the middle part of Neurotica.

 

[hwkn]

The drums on the extended version of Requiem are very 3D sounding almost like they're in the room with you.

 

[ar surround]

I finally got around to spinning this one last night...after finally getting around to buying it. Very nice! There are lots of tunes that I like on this one; and of course it has the usual stellar effort by Steven Wilson on the 5.1 mixing. I always enjoyed the way Fripp has successfully taken several generations of King Crimson and given each a unique sound of its own.

I particularly like that most of the songs are "right-sized" as far as duration, and Absent Lovers is a very fine bonus track. But I did get impatient with the extended 12 minute version of Requiem. I would have preferred that they had kept the original length version on the 5.1 and offered the extended version as a bonus track.

Now onto Three Of A Perfect Pair.

Glad I got Beat while still available and did not have to suffer "buy now or repent later" syndrome.

 

[perzon57]

I have to disagree with you I love the extended version of Requiem! This is my favorite KC album in 5.1.

 

[ar surround]

I have to disagree with you I love the extended version of Requiem! This is my favorite KC album in 5.1.

Hey, I commend you for your patience!

 

[ssully]

It's a lot easier to recreate your own LP-version Requiem from the longer one, than to generate a longer one from the edit. ;>

(I prefer the longer one)