Muse new album The Resistance in 5.1 (Box Set with DTS DVD-V)

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YmSeb

Well-known Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
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Well, this is the first time that a Muse studio album is given the surround treatment, and I can't wait since their music (a bit operatic like Queen sometimes) could be amazing in surround if mixed properly.

See http://muse.mu/news/article/438/join-the-resistance--album-pre-order/

Limited Edition deluxe CD/DVD/Vinyl/USB/12" Art Print box set: £59.99 / €69.99 (with free postage from muse.mu worldwide).
This version comes with the above CD+DVD featuring The Making Of The Resistance DVD (43 minutes 53 seconds) in addition to 180g double heavyweight vinyl, a Muse USB stick pre-loaded with Apple Lossless, WAV and MP3 320 files plus bespoke audio player, a 12" fine art print and (exclusive to muse.mu) the album in 5.1 surround sound (full bitrate DTS & Dolby). This version with the 5.1 surround sound is strictly limited to 5000 copies worldwide.
Click to expand...

However, it's very sad to see that this will happen only on a DVD-V, in DTS and Dolby Digital, and that it's supposed to be an extra so cool that it's limited to 5000 copies and exclusive to the most expensive edition ! :mad:

Once again, it's a missed opportunity to do a DVD-A or SACD.

As much as I love Muse, there is no way I pay 69€ to get surround in lossy formats.

It would have made sense if it had been DVD-A, like Insurgentes. And DVD-A is fully compatible with DVD-V readers as longs as you include the lossy tracks !

So, I wonder if the chaps who make the call on this actually listen to music, or even know little about what kind of formats exist to release their music. This is endlessly frustrating. Depeche Mode a few months ago... now Muse. ARGH !!!

If there wasn't the forthcoming King Crimson and Porcupine Tree DVD-A's, I'd be totally in despair regarding high-rez (rock) music...
 
I don't mean to sound negative, but I've been wanting to say the following for awhile now (so YmSeb don't take this personally), so here goes!

As much as I love Muse, there is no way I pay 69€ to get surround in lossy formats.
Click to expand...
For 98 U.S. dollars (as of 8.12.09), in my opinion the inclusion of only lossy formats seems reasonable since that package contains so many other listening options: a CD, a 180g vinyl disc and a USB stick (IMO solid-state memory formats like this are very probably the future of physical formats, a good thing!). Not to mention the inclusion of two forms of lossless data formats - Apple lossless! how much did that cost the label? - on the stick, free shipping and an art print.

As far as no hi-res tracks, yes that is unfortunate, but nowadays we are extremely lucky to get surround music in ANY format, so personally speaking I think it's great this band decided to offer those Dolby and DTS tracks.

FYI: full bitrate DTS on a dvd means a 1536kbps data rate, which is approximately equivalent to a 500kbps stereo MP3 file. So for many people, this means that this DTS track will be perceived as having CD-quality sound. (y)

FYI2: when a label decides to issue a dvd-audio disc, they will most probably end up using the MLP (Meridian Lossless Packing) format so they can fit all that PCM data onto the disc - this means they will have to pay Meridian's licensing fees, increasing production costs.

FYI3: even if MLP is used, all the material listed above (especially that making-of video) may require the use of a double-layer dvd disc. Again, that will increase production costs. But if only Dolby & DTS are used, then it's much easier to fit everything on a single-layer disc.

FYI4: too many players still have lousy bass management for the hi-res formats, and even when sacd and dvd-audio still seemed to have a future, the lack of standardized b.m. systems for hi-res caused problems even for dedicated surround fans: ridiculously high (and non-adjustable!) crossover points, some as high as 200Hz :(; no distance compensation system, which can negatively affect the surround soundfield unless all six speakers are physically placed equidistant from the listening position; some players completely dropping the subwoofer channel if their "no subwoofer" option was chosen, instead of combining it with the front main channels which is what DTS and Dolby do; the much-discussed "LFE bug", so important that it has its own sticky thread here on qq.com; and of course the mess that comes in the form of three pairs of interconnects, the interconnects that send the analog signals to the receiver.

Sheesh. :mad:@:

I wonder how many people, especially non-audio hobbyists, returned their hi-res discs because they "sounded bad" when used with such players.

And many entry-level dvd players from Panasonic and Samsung for example included dvd-audio playback capability, but lots of people bought these players simply for playing their movie dvds and CDs, having no idea what that "DVD-AUDIO" logo meant. So what happens when they place a dvd-audio disc in that player, but it's not set-up for that format, in particular no analog interconnects being used? "Hey this thing is broken!" or "This disc is messed up!" And another potential surround music fan is pissed off.......

Yes, now there are HDMI-equipped players and receivers that solve many of the above problems, but not everyone owns those players & receivers, especially those that aren't audio hobbyists.

I truly would love to see more hi-res surround titles, but it wasn't just bad marketing & lousy titles that contributed to their demise.
 
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Sure it's a lot of 'stuff' for $100, but only one album of music. How many ways do you want to pay for it?
 
It SHOULD have been good news.
But to me it means no buying at all.

I can't stand anymore this "boxset" bullshit. It's the flavor of the year, and it smells pretty bad. How many boxsets did we have this year ?

Oasis, Depeche Mode, U2, Dream Theater, Liquid Tension Experiment, Porcupine Tree, Mike Oldfield, and I forgot some.

In many cases, there are vinyls, or 5.1, or really important bonuses that were not and would never be available anywhere else. Sorry, I can't stand that anymore.

I wanted to buy the new Muse in vinyl. Having it in 5.1 was beyond my wildest dreams and I sure would have bought it apart, in a C+DVD format. But paying 60 £ cash ONCE AGAIN ? No thanks.

Go ahead record companies, if you want to commit suicide with panache, you're doing it right.
 
I don't take this personally, it's OK. It's nice to exchange our opinions on this boxset.

FriskyDingo said:
For 98 U.S. dollars (as of 8.12.09), in my opinion the inclusion of only lossy formats seems reasonable since that package contains so many other listening options: a CD, a 180g vinyl disc and a USB stick (IMO solid-state memory formats like this are very probably the future of physical formats, a good thing!). Not to mention the inclusion of two forms of lossless data formats - Apple lossless! how much did that cost the label?
Click to expand...
The use of Apple lossless codec is free, AFAIK.
Regarding the production cost of a such low-capacity USB stick, c'mon, it's as cheap as producing a CD.


As far as no hi-res tracks, yes that is unfortunate, but nowadays we are extremely lucky to get surround music in ANY format, so personally speaking I think it's great this band decided to offer those Dolby and DTS tracks.
Click to expand...
I'd tend to agree with you ("better than nothing") when DTS is included, otherwise, it's completely pointless. Dream Theater's Systematic Chaos 5.1 mix was released in a lousy DD track only, it's barely listenable, what's the point ? In those cases, nothing is better than utter frustration.

But, in Muse's case, the surround mix is presented in DTS full bitrate as well, so it's definitely better than nothing, agreed. I was complaining about the price tag vs. the lossy formats, not about the formats themselves only.

FYI2: when a label decides to issue a dvd-audio disc, they will most probably end up using the MLP (Meridian Lossless Packing) format so they can fit all that PCM data onto the disc - this means they will have to pay Meridian's licensing fees, increasing production costs.

FYI3: even if MLP is used, all the material listed above (especially that making-of video) may require the use of a double-layer dvd disc. Again, that will increase production costs. But if only Dolby & DTS are used, then it's much easier to fit everything on a single-layer disc.
Click to expand...
Exactly my point.
The aim of a deluxe edition, to me, is added value. It's OK to pay more $$ if there is added value, beyond packaging only. For 69€, there must be a way to fund MLP and double layer DVD. Production cost for a double layer DVD is approx. 2€ vs 1€ for a single layer for approx. 3000 copies (prices I have from a big factory in France, I guess a huge record label get far more interesting prices). So, it's virtually negligeable to have single layer vs. double layer.

For MLP costs, I don't know. But, how did Burning Shed do with far less copies of Insurgentes ? OK, there wasn't gadgets such as a USB stick, and there was no LP, but there was a far more expensive item, the huge book of pictures with glossy paper.

I really don't buy the added costs arguments... sorry ! :)
 
Hope the 5.1 mix is good, but I'll probably won't ever get to hear it because I'm not going to spend that kind of cash when I don't care about all the other crap. C'mon music studios: Just sell me a CD+DVDV with the 5.1---if even it is just full-rate DTS, fine by me these days---for, say, $20.00 (U.S) and we've got a deal.

Say... slightly off-topic, but years ago I ordered the hybrid SACD version of Muse's "Hullabaloo" live album; unfortunately, the store sent me the regular CD version, instead. My point? I guess me and Muse and multichannel music just aren't meant to be. Bummer!

(Edit: Does anyone know if the DVD-V is NTSC and region-free? I couldn't get the link to open, not that it would necessarilly say, I suppose.)
 
This is the kind of release (extremely expensive) that I wouldn't mind seeing in the mojave blog.

btw, I am purchasing this one....
 
Yah - it is sold out...
I ordered the first day - when I saw on the site yesterday that the 5.1 DVD was N/A I thought it was cancelled.
I contacted them to cancel my order but they told me I was one of the 5000 that got the disc...
Going to be a BIG collector's item...
 
Stupid is as stupid does...

So be it. Farewell Muse. Making music a competition between personal wealthes and a speed race amongst no-lifers is not for my taste. I like to buy my records physically in a store, with a regular price, some kind of availability, no pressure on my shoulders, and for the pleasure of listening to some peice of art, not for snobbering about "having it ! having it goddammit !".

Between Muse making quality music a matter of competition and Radiohead not caring about artistic views anymore, this is a sad week for music :(
 
Baker said:
Stupid is as stupid does...

So be it. Farewell Muse. Making music a competition between personal wealthes and a speed race amongst no-lifers is not for my taste. I like to buy my records physically in a store, with a regular price, some kind of availability, no pressure on my shoulders, and for the pleasure of listening to some peice of art, not for snobbering about "having it ! having it goddammit !".

Between Muse making quality music a matter of competition and Radiohead not caring about artistic views anymore, this is a sad week for music :(
Click to expand...

Not personally wealthy and I DO have a life dude.
 
Baker said:
Stupid is as stupid does...

So be it. Farewell Muse. Making music a competition between personal wealthes and a speed race amongst no-lifers is not for my taste. I like to buy my records physically in a store, with a regular price, some kind of availability, no pressure on my shoulders, and for the pleasure of listening to some peice of art, not for snobbering about "having it ! having it goddammit !".

Between Muse making quality music a matter of competition and Radiohead not caring about artistic views anymore, this is a sad week for music :(
Click to expand...

Well, the face value of this post is a bit off (as in meat going off).

Someone taught me that if you get mad when someone calls you stupid it's because you think you are stupid.

If the best thing that you can come up with is to insult your fellow Quaddies, you have no place in this forum as you end up being the stupid one, so thanks for showing your true colors ... :=)
At least I know to ignore you from now on after this post....

I basically had never heard Muse before this thread- I went and purchased it because I liked what I heard.
Although I don't have a lot of money, I decided to get it, you do what you want with your money.

The Music Industry is changing rapidly, and the way of purchasing music is not in stores anymore, but by the net.
I'm almost positive that I'd have found out about the King Crimson remixes through their website, but in here we got a great insight (Mr. Wilkes) of the project from one of the team involved in the making.

If Muse decided to issue their 5.1 mix in a box, so be it-it's their loss (or gain, you never know).

Oh,yes, I am a Fanboy...of the Beatles (NOT going to bother with the reissues) , of King Crimson (will definitely get ALL of them),
AAMOF, I wasn't even into Depeche Mode but I got all of their 5.1 discs(except Route 101) and have really rediscovered them-a plus.
I am not that big into Elton John ,but I got 3 of his SACDs....
It's basically a crap shoot when it comes to purchasing, but only stuff I listen to and like. Others are into collecting and not opening up their discs (cool with me), others into buying everything they can get their hands on even if they don't like it- hey , if you've got the scratch, do it!
:smokin
 
I'm totally sorry, I absolutely didn't mean that YOU were stupid (neither DrMabuse2001), I was talking about Muse's policy of selling !

saying that the industry is changing... I agree with that. But what for ? Paying more and more money, for just one album, the amount of money you would have paid an ANTHOLOGY just 2/3 years before ?

Sorry if I offended quaddies here, I was only complaining about this wave of expensive boxsets that's driving me mad. There's supposedly a worldwide financial crises and music industry bets everything on the "luxury market", and in cases like this one makes the 5.1 mix hard as hell to get instead of promoting it.
 
I don't know the band very well, but I would have bought a standard 5.1 surround release given that a work mate of mine really likes them. I think they have squandered an opportunity to expand their audience by limiting the surround release.

I think they are shooting themselves in the foot. When willingly paying customers have no place to get a certain piece of music, where do they often end up? They go to free torrent download sites, where nobody is compensated for the labors of their music.
 
I like many others here would love to buy this album in surround but at a reasonable price.
Anyone got any idea who we could email(record label,band manager) to voice our concern as it does seem very silly that the band would block out a part of the market as more sales would be generated if they would have at least given a option to buy a cd\dvd with the dvd including the dts mix of album.

I wasn't aware of this band until a few years ago when I saw mention on a Dream Theater forum that Mike Portnoy is a big fan of the band. From there figured I might as well check these guys out and picked up Muse Absolution. After listening to that I can sure see that a couple of the songs from DT Octavarium sound very similar to songs from Muse Absolution but bands influencing other bands has been going on forever. To me Muse sound like a way more melodic version of Radiohead and lead singer of Muse has got a great singing voice to boot(at times reminds me of freddy mercury's vocal range).
Muse is a good band and I will still pick up new cd but it will still hurt knowing that there is a surround version of this but band limited it to the select few willing to buy the super delux version.
 
peterzach said:
After listening to that I can sure see that a couple of the songs from DT Octavarium sound very similar to songs from Muse Absolution
Click to expand...

:D It's deeper than that, go one step beyond Octavarium and listen to the song "Prophets of War", it is pure Muse !

And even deeper : listen to Muse's "Assassin", it's pure Dream Theater mimicking Muse :banana:

That's one of the rasons I've been so rude on this topic : The Resistance is THE album that gives me the highest expectations of this year.


...On another level, if the 5.1 is doomed to remain between 5.000 people in the whole world BUT is a shitty surround mix, I wouldn't know whether to laugh or cry...
 
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I've now listened to most of the album in DTS 5.1.
On one hand I think the music is of the highest quality, exciting emotional and clever.
On the other hand the 5.1 is a little flat compared with the stereo. It has a lack of space somehow as if the sound has been pasted on the walls rather than extending beyond them as the best surround sound does.
At lower volumes it also sounds a bit thin, perhaps that is due to greater dynamic range than the CD, not sure, Muse albums are normally over compressed.
It will take a few more listens to get used to it.
I'll listen to the Vinyl next, but that's not relevant here...
 
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