Quad LP/Tape Poll Walsh, Joe: The Smoker You Drink, The Player You Get [QS/Q8]

[steelydave]

Released in stereo on June 18th, 1973, The Smoker You Drink, The Player You Get was Walsh's second LP for ABC-Dunhill after 1972's Barnstorm. The quad mix was initially only released as a Q8, but a QS-encoded LP followed in mid-1974 as part of ABC's Command Quadraphonic series of quad LPs.



ABC/Dunhill C 7023-50140 (later 7023-50140 H) [Q8] ABC Command Quadraphonic CQD-40016 [QS LP]
Discogs links: Q8 / LP
Wiki for the album: The Smoker You Drink, The Player You Get

Side 1:

1. Rocky Mountain Way
2. Bookends
3. Wolf
4. Midnight Moodies
5. Happy Ways

Side 2:

1. Meadows
2. Dreams
3. Days Gone By
4. Daydream (Prayer)

 

[kap'n krunch]

I love this album...AudioSpectrum's Q8 conversion is HiFi stuff..the material is great and the mix is typical early 70s but still palatable.

 

[sjcorne]

I'd be interested in hearing that conversion as my copy of the Q8 is pretty disappointing sonically. Really dull and hissy compared to other GRT tapes in my collection (Steely Dan, Jim Croce, Grass Roots, etc). It's the "H" cart which does not have a swapped channel.

The QS LP, on the other hand, is fantastic! It sounds totally discrete through the Involve decoder. If you shut off the rears, the lead guitar and talkbox in "Rocky Mountain Way" will disappear.

I like the quad mix - it's very discrete, almost Columbia-style at times. Drums in the fronts, vocals in the center, with guitars, synth, percussion, and backing vocals hard-panned in the back corners. Going with an "8" overall. Would be awesome to hear in a modern format!

Here's "Rocky Mountain Way" from the Q8:

 

[Q-Eight]

My biggest qualm with the song "Rocky Mountain Way" is the breakdown portion with the talkbox and synth both stuck in one back corner leaving the other back channel full of nothing but drum echo. I mean.... maybe this was done to highlight the QS mix and to show off how something can stick to a corner.... but in the stereo mix, those parts are separated into left and right. I would've preferred to see that in the Quad mix, along with the lead guitar bit in front center. But again, that may have been done to satisfy QS requirements as well since it's in the opposite rear corner.

Beyond those two minor niggles.... I'd say it's a really good mix.

I often wonder if ABC/Dunhill was working with Columbia engineers or.... who were the people behind the ABC mixes? Because in all fairness I would have to say that they
are some of, if not THE Best out of the entire format. Consistently, too. I can't really say I've heard a "Bad" ABC/Dunhill/Dot/Ranwood mix. Yes, some have limitations due to lack of tracks like some of the Ranwood tapes, but they still put on a good show and get creative.

 

[par4ken]

As a fan of the James Gang I loved this solo release. The stereo version was fantastic, I was a bit let down by the Quad version however. But I'll give it a good re-listening before I vote. The exaggerated or extreme left to right stereo separation on some tracks of the stereo version is watered down by QS encoding, SQ would of been better IMHO. I got rid of my stereo copy when I got the QS but I wish that I had still kept it, I'm still looking for another copy. Picking hairs but I have a preference for the Canadian brown label, much nicer looking than the black US version or the latter target label. I have a stereo CD but that lacks something sound-wise as well.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

I'd be interested in hearing that conversion as my copy of the Q8 is pretty disappointing sonically. Really dull and hissy compared to other GRT tapes in my collection (Steely Dan, Jim Croce, Grass Roots, etc). It's the "H" cart which does not have a swapped channel.

The QS LP, on the other hand, is fantastic! It sounds totally discrete through the Involve decoder. If you shut off the rears, the lead guitar and talkbox in "Rocky Mountain Way" will disappear.

I like the quad mix - it's very discrete, almost Columbia-style at times. Drums in the fronts, vocals in the center, with guitars, synth, percussion, and backing vocals hard-panned in the back corners. Going with an "8" overall. Would be awesome to hear in a modern format!

Here's "Rocky Mountain Way" from the Q8:
View attachment 51824

So just to be clear, is your vote based off the Q8 or the QS LP?
I believe I have conversions of both, but always thought it sounded a little dull also, I'll need to revisit and I will throw a vote in as well.

 

[sjcorne]

So just to be clear, is your vote based off the Q8 or the QS LP?

Would it be fair to say it's a composite of both? The tape and the LP have the same quad mix.

 

[Mesozoic Mike]

O for a DV release of Joe Walsh albums.

 

[mongojr]

I own the Universal Ultimate 24k Gold Masterdisc from 1994 remastered from original 2-track analog masters by Glenn Meadows @ Masterfonics in Nashville. It sounds great but if they have a quad master then why not a SACD or Blu-ray Audio multi-channel release? This album would be perfect!

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Turns out the only conversion I have is the Q8 at 24/96 by a very accomplished member here.

Some additional thoughts from what I heard today:

Rocky Mountain Way -
A great tune with Vocals in front, Synth and Talk box guitar mostly in the Left Rear and as Q-Eight mentions very little in the Right Rear at times.
There's also piano (it seems) in the fronts, but very faint sounding, a little too far back in the mix for me. At about the 2:53-3:55 area there is a second Talk box guitar that is slightly different than the one in the L/R, sort of shadowing what it does.
Overall it sounds a little dirty/muddy and probably a combination of the time period and the way it was recorded and the Q8 tape format.

Book Ends-
I like the little trill synth sounds in the opening in the R/L and a synth does a great job of circling around the channels at several points in the song (very cool!)

Happy Ways -
Opens with just the bass in the phantom front center (a nice touch), congas and acoustic guitar in F/R & R/R, and overall really like the way this whole song was mixed. Sounds a whole lot cleaner than some of the other songs also.

Meadows-
Song is OK, but when the whole band comes in hot and heavy at about the 12 second point in all channels it just feels too distorted and overdone.
I believe a lighter hand mixing this would have helped.

Dreams-
Sounds like some tape wow/flutter on the piano opening. The Synth in the R/R is wonderful and later a little organ in there between the F/R & L/R is nice and ear catching. But, again the drums and bass sound pretty muddy to me.

Please see the Q8 discogs credits that @steelydave OP linked to above for details.
This was produced by Bill Szymczyk along with Joe's So What Album, which IIRC is one reason Joe got the gig with The Eagles is because they liked the harder Rock sound that Joe got on his albums and of course his guitar playing prowess.

This whole thing is in dire need of a modern format with great mastering.
I'll go with a light 8 on this on the strength of the material, but sound wise is sorely lacking IMO (nearly gave it a 7!)

 

[humprof]

Appreciate all the comments above. I've heard both Oxford Dickie's SQLP decode and the AudioSpectrum Q8 conversion that @kap'n krunch mentioned. Surprisingly, the Q8 has a slight edge on clarity of vocals. Bass often sounds muffled on both versions, though. For that reason and because I like Walsh better with the James Gang than on his own, I'd almost give this the "7" that @J. PUPSTER didn't. But listening to the album all the way through for the first time in decades, I'm rediscovering a lot of tracks that I like just as much as, maybe even more than, "Rocky Mountain Way": the moody "Wolf," the droning "Meadows," the laidback/gospelly "Dreams," and tunes with jazz elements like "Midnight Moodies" and "Days Gone By." So 8 from me, too.

 

[marpow]

I received a copy today and was mind blown how good it was. Loved it.

 

[Q-Eight]

I received a copy today and was mind blown how good it was. Loved it.

This comment struck me funny.
You know, anytime I get a new, never-heard-before Quad mix, I'm always thrilled. But it does seem to me - I don't know about the rest of you - but the more familiar I get with a mix, sometimes, the less I enjoy it. I start to focus on what's wrong than what's right. Familiarity really does breed contempt.

 

[Quadmon]

Hello everyone. New here and this is my first post. I wore out my first Smoker Q8 and got another one. Is a favorite of mine and still play it often. Love the mix and feel of the tape. Great songs. Takes me back. I call my system an 8-track time machine!

 

[Quadmon]

As a fan of the James Gang I loved this solo release. The stereo version was fantastic, I was a bit let down by the Quad version however. But I'll give it a good re-listening before I vote. The exaggerated or extreme left to right stereo separation on some tracks of the stereo version is watered down by QS encoding, SQ would of been better IMHO. I got rid of my stereo copy when I got the QS but I wish that I had still kept it, I'm still looking for another copy. Picking hairs but I have a preference for the Canadian brown label, much nicer looking than the black US version or the latter target label. I have a stereo CD but that lacks something sound-wise as well.

Also a James Gang fan. Got to talk with Joe a few times at their shows. He blew Page away when they opened for LZ at Musicarnival. Did 15 minute "Jeff's Boogie" for final song. Blew Jeff away too!

 

[himey]

Don't forget the James Gang lineup without Joe...Miami is an awesome album and mix! Come on DV, Miami PLEASE.

 

[par4ken]

Don't forget the James Gang lineup without Joe...Miami is an awesome album and mix! Come on DV, Miami PLEASE.

Although I wasn't all that big on Miami it at least was released in Quad. When Joe left the band, they picked up Canadians Roy Kenner and Domenic Troiano from the band "Bush". Bush did the original version of "I Can Here You Calling" later covered by Three Dog Night. There was a later (and more popular) group named Bush that for awhile had to use the name Bush X in Canada. I was a bit ticked off when a DJ griped about that, to me the original Bush is Bush. Anyway I always loved "Straight Shooter" and and few tracks from "Passin' Through". Straight Shooter was recorded at Quadraphonic Sound Studio in Nashville but despite that no Quad release that I know of exists!

 

[par4ken]

I've been listening to this a fair bit, preparing to cast my vote. Based on the content alone it deserves a ten. I have always felt that the mix of quad Rocky Mountain Way was a bit of a let down though, as the stereo version has elements, guitars panned hard left and right, seems somewhat blurred in the quad mix. I had to listen to the stereo CD to confirm. My vinyl set up is now sounding so good that the CD sounds rather grungy. Anyway the rest of the album sounds fine quad-wise. Will give it a nine, one point docked for the Rocky Mountain Way mix.

 

[wrat]

Just got this and while its a great album the quad conversion I have is terrible , flat not dynamic at all almost sounds like it has dolby b on it

 

[sofijander]

What's not to love here musically, especially if one is hardcore James Gang fan? As others have pointed out, quad mix leaves much to be desired, so rock solid 8 from me.