SACD....by the numbers

[mandrix]

"Economies of Scale". lol.

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

I would think whatever route, once an .iso is created a pressing plant would be able to create a glass master and stamp them out.

Can't press from ISOs. Well, you can for Blu-ray and DVD, but that's usually an extra charge.
For almost all physical digital media, you press from DDP files, which have a bit more info than an ISO does, and more rigorous verification processes.

 

[mandrix]

Can't press from ISOs. Well, you can for Blu-ray and DVD, but that's usually an extra charge.
For almost all physical digital media, you press from DDP files, which have a bit more info than an ISO does, and more rigorous verification processes.

Noted. I have no clue what DDP files are, however.
OK. I see. I think that information can be included with SACD authored .iso's, best I remember.

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

Noted. I have no clue what DDP files are, however.
OK. I see. I think that information can be included with SACD authored .iso's, best I remember.

Well, DDP images usually structure the data exactly how it's gonna fall on the disc. On some formats (like DVD) which rely on absolute sector count, this is pretty important, or the DVD Player gets confused as all hell as to where the data it wants actually is. Furthermore, there's encryption flags and additional manufacturing metadata (for the making of the disc) that's not found in an ISO. For example, on CDs, subcode information like CD-TEXT can only be carried to the pressing plant on a DDP.

 

[discisbetter]

After 10 full months, I guess I should update what has been happening in the SACD world.

Back on January 1, 2023, the number of SACD releases listed at hraudio.net was 14,846 releases. As of this post, that number has grown to 15,261, which equates to 415 new SACD releases added to that website. There are a number of notable SACD releases not added to hraudio.net yet: Bruce Springsteen's "Greetings from Asbury Park, N.J.", Dr. John's "In the Right Place" (the 3rd SACD release from the Atlantic Records 75th Anniversary project), etc. On top of those, there were at least 50 SACD releases from Hong Kong (minus the ones already added to hraudio.net). Therefore, at least 465 new SACD releases worldwide in 2023 as of this post.

In terms of total new SACD releases in 2023, I don't think it will surpass the total of 747 from 2022.

Nice collection. Awesome. I would love to start the stereo sacds, but expensive enough for all the multichannel that I have bought. I took a hiatus for 20 years and it sure did cost a lot for the back catalogue.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

Noted. I have no clue what DDP files are, however.
OK. I see. I think that information can be included with SACD authored .iso's, best I remember.

Just so you know... DDP stands for: Disc Description Protocol.

 

[jaybird100]

I agree... With regard to surround sound music on disc, Blu-ray is the only disc format we need now. SACD and DVD-A just create more confusion!

I'm not so sure we don't need SACD. The hybrid discs are playable on a wider range of players, in stereo, including in the car. There are no players, that I know of, currently still available, to play SACD's in surround, in the car. There's nothing to play Blu-Ray Audio discs on the go, that I know of, which means they're limited to in-the-home play. That was the same limitation DVD-Audio had.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

I'm not so sure we don't need SACD. The hybrid discs are playable on a wider range of players, in stereo, including in the car. There are no players, that I know of, currently still available, to play SACD's in surround, in the car. There's nothing to play Blu-Ray Audio discs on the go, that I know of, which means they're limited to in-the-home play. That was the same limitation DVD-Audio had.

Hmmm...

Do we really still need disc players in cars to play multi-channel music, it's 2024. Such players must be more rare than the ones we can buy for home use!

Maybe somebody needs to design a dedicated 'discless' surround sound player for vehicles

 

[mandrix]

Well, DDP images usually structure the data exactly how it's gonna fall on the disc. On some formats (like DVD) which rely on absolute sector count, this is pretty important, or the DVD Player gets confused as all hell as to where the data it wants actually is. Furthermore, there's encryption flags and additional manufacturing metadata (for the making of the disc) that's not found in an ISO. For example, on CDs, subcode information like CD-TEXT can only be carried to the pressing plant on a DDP.

So who normally assembles all this information? Who issues an ISRC number?
As for sector counts, etc any good burning engine should be able to square that up. I mean I know we're talking glass masters here which is totally different of course.
Sounds like you had to get quite an education in all this stuff to get published, if that's the proper term? Or does someone walk you through all of it when you set out to produce an album on disc?
Man I learn new stuff here every day! Enlighten me, please, if you would.

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

There's nothing to play Blu-Ray Audio discs on the go, that I know of, which means they're limited to in-the-home play. That was the same limitation DVD-Audio had.

Well actually Blu-ray can operate the same way a Hybrid SACD does...and have a CD layer...with no compatibility issues...

It's been part of the Blu-ray spec since nearly the beginning and any pressing plant worth their salt allows you to make them.

So who normally assembles all this information? Who issues an ISRC number?
As for sector counts, etc any good burning engine should be able to square that up. I mean I know we're talking glass masters here which is totally different of course.
Sounds like you had to get quite an education in all this stuff to get published, if that's the proper term? Or does someone walk you through all of it when you set out to produce an album on disc?
Man I learn new stuff here every day! Enlighten me, please, if you would.

I got no clue how it works in a real world scenario, at least, a studio. I do know that only certain licensed software can make DDPs, and DDPs can fail verification/playback for a lot more reasons than an ISO because it requires a 100% adherence to the specifications of the format it is carrying. Neil Wilkes or someone else in the industry would likely have more info than me. I had to do a lot of digging when making my own discs. ISRC numbers are usually issued by the RIAA here in America. Nobody walks you through this stuff when making a disc. You either know it or you pay a hefty penny for not knowing what you're doing.

DDPs are not the only things used! I actually use it as a blanket term for replication images, but CMF is the other major format. IIRC, DDP for CD and DVD, CMF for SACD and Blu-ray.

 

[mandrix]

Well actually Blu-ray can operate the same way a Hybrid SACD does...and have a CD layer...with no compatibility issues...

It's been part of the Blu-ray spec since nearly the beginning and any pressing plant worth their salt allows you to make them.


I got no clue how it works in a real world scenario, at least, a studio. I do know that only certain licensed software can make DDPs, and DDPs can fail verification/playback for a lot more reasons than an ISO because it requires a 100% adherence to the specifications of the format it is carrying. Neil Wilkes or someone else in the industry would likely have more info than me. I had to do a lot of digging when making my own discs. ISRC numbers are usually issued by the RIAA here in America. Nobody walks you through this stuff when making a disc. You either know it or you pay a hefty penny for not knowing what you're doing.

DDPs are not the only things used! I actually use it as a blanket term for replication images, but CMF is the other major format. IIRC, DDP for CD and DVD, CMF for SACD and Blu-ray.

Jeez Louise, nothing is easy, is it? Well you managed to get through it before so you must have learned a lot.

 

[barfle]

I‘ve done a couple of BDs using Roxio and TV shows recorded either through a tuner card or a HDMI cloner (very flaky), or with video I recorded with a camera, and they didn’t seem to be all that different from authoring a DVD, Admittedly, I only did a handful of cut edits on the material, and MCH audio wasn’t the primary focus of the job, but the ones I did worked fine on everyone’s players (OK, three players in my family).

 

[mandrix]

Well years ago when I first started grappling with DVDA, I was keen on making them compatible for standard DVD players as well as dedicated DVDA players, so I found a tutorial on authoring DVD's so I could make the VIDEO_TS portion of a "hybrid" DVDA disc. I used dvdlabpro for that. But I quit doing that some years ago as to me it was sort of a PITA. If I had to author a DVD now its doubtful I could.
I still keep my hand in with DVDA though. Just lossless AUDIO_TS and no lossy VIDEO_TS.
Blu Ray I've never attempted, though I've been looking at software options lately.

 

[mandrix]

Well I've authored some SACD's but that's been a couple of years. Not too difficult with the right software.

ok looking at the manual, SuperAuthor after creating a disc image verifies it and creates the CMF output.

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

Blu-ray, IIRC, has two types, at least in authoring. One is heavily abstracted and is easy to work with which is HDMV, and is probably what you guys work with at home. The other is what allows for insane multimedia interactivity features, but it much harder to do (as you need to know how to code in Java) which is BD-J.

For example, the now defunct Adobe Encore authors in HDMV. Scenarist primarily works in BD-J, IIRC.

 

[mandrix]

Makes sense. In its simplest form it's easier to create an AVCHD using for example AudioMuxer. Blank video, no menu's, though you can have still images.
Java is a foreign language to me.

 

[mandrix]

Here's a BD creator program more in my price range. Pretty sure it's light years away from Scenarist. I might give it a try just for grins.
https://yuhanmedia.com/

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

Blu-ray, IIRC, has two types, at least in authoring. One is heavily abstracted and is easy to work with which is HDMV, and is probably what you guys work with at home. The other is what allows for insane multimedia interactivity features, but it much harder to do (as you need to know how to code in Java) which is BD-J.

For example, the now defunct Adobe Encore authors in HDMV. Scenarist primarily works in BD-J, IIRC.

Agreed...

And from a personal stand-point, I am no fan of Java. It's totally unnecessary

 

[JediJoker]

Well actually Blu-ray can operate the same way a Hybrid SACD does...and have a CD layer...with no compatibility issues...

It's been part of the Blu-ray spec since nearly the beginning and any pressing plant worth their salt allows you to make them.

I'm unaware of any existing hybrid Blu-rays of any kind, be it Blu-ray/CD or Blu-ray/DVD or Blu-ray/SACD. Have any ever been pressed commercially?

 

[mandrix]

Here's a BD creator program more in my price range. Pretty sure it's light years away from Scenarist. I might give it a try just for grins.
https://yuhanmedia.com/

Well I mean it works, sort of. I gave it a quick spin, I did not include a menu since I used an IAA download with track information on screen. Created an .iso and played in VLC alright.