Tapes Used for Surround SACD Reissues

[J. PUPSTER]

I’m wondering if one of the main criteria for DV selecting the titles they have, is the beforehand knowledge on the condition of the masters. The further down their preferred list of titles they go, the more cleaning up, baking or whatever else they need to do to get to that most excellent final
product they are known for, takes longer and longer? Just a thought at about 4am here

 

[quicksrt]

It's scattershot across the board, with many tapes just perfect condition. I'd bet the EZ Listening titles are Reels not touched since '73. Sometimes it's not a good thing if a reel sits untouched for 40 years, other times it's a blessing.

I wonder if on the shelf there are sometimes tapes labeled Quad Reel Slave, or Quad 8-Track master, and Final Quad Mixed Master, so that if there is a bad section on the first song, it might be fixable using one of the other quad parts from other reel.

Looking forward to D/V having the Jefferson Starship hit albums within reach. That Red Octopus album was a big hit, and the song Miracles was an easy listening radio staple. Actually with the Grunt albums moving to Rhino from Sony it appears they are moving further away from D/Vs sights.

My crystal ball is showing red with a lot of metallic gold spinning by, like it wants out, it's close to being liberated - my mind's eye it sensing this.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

I’m wondering if one of the main criteria for DV selecting the titles they have, is the beforehand knowledge on the condition of the masters. The further down their preferred list of titles they go, the more cleaning up, baking or whatever else they need to do to get to that most excellent final
product they are known for, takes longer and longer? Just a thought at about 4am here

I'm sure the condition of the masters is something that is researched ahead of time....the guy who is best equipped to answer that question is steelydave

 

[4-earredwonder]

I’m wondering if one of the main criteria for DV selecting the titles they have, is the beforehand knowledge on the condition of the masters. The further down their preferred list of titles they go, the more cleaning up, baking or whatever else they need to do to get to that most excellent final
product they are known for, takes longer and longer? Just a thought at about 4am here

I don't think the original analogue masters are utilized any more but rather digital conversions which are done by the conglomerates themselves so any baking of tapes would be performed by them and not D~V.

And what were you doing up @ 4 AM, JP ...... walking the pup?

How 'bout a walk down El Paso Street today, JP?

 

[J. PUPSTER]

I don't think the original analogue masters are utilized any more but rather digital conversions which are done by the conglomerates themselves so any baking of tapes would be performed by them and not D~V.

And what were you doing up @ 4 AM, JP ...... walking the pup?

How 'bout a walk down El Paso Street today, JP?

Yup, you could say I was walking my pup

Also, good to know I'm not just spinning in one place on my squirrel wheel. I've still got a substantial stack of CDs, DVD-As, Blu-rays, SACDs, Quad conversions etc. that I haven't even heard yet. I'm also working on setting up my new system for the Surround Master v2 with a new TT and other hardware. And the most important thing is bugging my fellow surround travelers with dumb questions!

 

[4-earredwonder]

Yup, you could say I was walking my pup

Also, good to know I'm not just spinning in one place on my squirrel wheel. I've still got a substantial stack of CDs, DVD-As, Blu-rays, SACDs, Quad conversions etc. that I haven't even heard yet. I'm also working on setting up my new system for the Surround Master v2 with a new TT and other hardware. And the most important thing is bugging my fellow surround travelers with dumb questions!

NO question is stupid, JP. I always thought the original analogue master tapes WERE still being utilized.....but the fact they're so old and fragile and usually reside in the country of origin makes transporting them to the reissue companies way too risky.

Can't wait to hear your impression of the surround master v2. Should bring you MUCH enjoyment.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

NO question is stupid, JP. I always thought the original analogue master tapes WERE still being utilized.....but the fact they're so old and fragile and usually reside in the country of origin makes transporting them to the reissue companies way too risky.

Can't wait to hear your impression of the surround master v2. Should bring you MUCH enjoyment.

Yeah, my comment was a joke, I believe it was an excellent relevant question, (as far as 4 am thinking goes.)

 

[fredblue]

NO question is stupid, JP. I always thought the original analogue master tapes WERE still being utilized.....but the fact they're so old and fragile and usually reside in the country of origin makes transporting them to the reissue companies way too risky.

Can't wait to hear your impression of the surround master v2. Should bring you MUCH enjoyment.

hi Ralph! DV state on the rear inlay of their Surround SACD releases that they are from the original analogue tapes.. doesn't say anything anywhere about them being from digital transfers.. who can say "what it's all about Ralphie".. in any event i doubt they're going to get more transparent on what and how they get their stuff sounding so good - and why should they? other labels that did/are doing surround music didn't/don't get into specifics on such matters, i guess its all part of the trade secret special sauce/source!

 

[4-earredwonder]

hi Ralph! DV state on the rear inlay of their Surround SACD releases that they are from the original analogue tapes.. doesn't say anything anywhere about them being from digital transfers.. who can say "what it's all about Ralphie".. in any event i doubt they're going to get more transparent on what and how they get their stuff sounding so good - and why should they? other labels that did/are doing surround music didn't/don't get into specifics on such matters, i guess its all part of the trade secret special sauce/source!

I think it was Brian Moura who set me straight that because of the fragility of the master tapes [not to mention their extreme value] that the majors were NO longer sending the absolute masters to the reissue companies for replication but rather digital transfers....made from those masters! And unless things have changed, that the absolute masters were kept in the country of origin. Perhaps Steelydave could shed some light on this ..... because from what D~V claims on ALL their QUAD SACDs [mastered from the original analogue masters], would SONY and other majors actually part with the masters....especially since most of them 'reside' in the USA!

edit: I would assume that ALL SONY's digital masters are DSD 256 remastered from the original analogue masters which is what MoFi and Sony Japan currently utilize to replicate their SACDs [Stereo AND multichannel, respectively].

 

[DuncanS]

If I remember correctly it was a few tape manufacturers (Scotch?) in the mid-1970s that changed the 'backing glue' which is why the tapes deteriorated. I believe that tapes manufactured before and after haven't aged so badly. I've stuff recorded on Maxell 35B R2R tape from 1977-82 which has not deteriorated. The worst thing was that a lot of the record companies charged the bands for storing their master tapes, and then kept then in a rubbish shed or wherever, and in many cases managed to lose them but still charged.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

hi Ralph! DV state on the rear inlay of their Surround SACD releases that they are from the original analogue tapes.. doesn't say anything anywhere about them being from digital transfers.. who can say "what it's all about Ralphie".. in any event i doubt they're going to get more transparent on what and how they get their stuff sounding so good - and why should they? other labels that did/are doing surround music didn't/don't get into specifics on such matters, i guess its all part of the trade secret special sauce/source!

I'll have another shot of that please sir.

 

[4-earredwonder]

If I remember correctly it was a few tape manufacturers (Scotch?) in the mid-1970s that changed the 'backing glue' which is why the tapes deteriorated. I believe that tapes manufactured before and after haven't aged so badly. I've stuff recorded on Maxell 35B R2R tape from 1977-82 which has not deteriorated. The worst thing was that a lot of the record companies charged the bands for storing their master tapes, and then kept then in a rubbish shed or wherever, and in many cases managed to lose them but still charged.

Correct Duncan ....and Pink Floyd's the WALL is an egregious example of that botched batch of Scotch Magnetic Tape. And unfortunately, those tapes can ONLY be baked ONCE ......probably why The Wall hasn't yet been released in 5.1.

 

[fredblue]

I think it was Brian Moura who set me straight that because of the fragility of the master tapes [not to mention their extreme value] that the majors were NO longer sending the absolute masters to the reissue companies for replication but rather digital transfers....made from those masters! And unless things have changed, that the absolute masters were kept in the country of origin. Perhaps Steelydave could shed some light on this ..... because from what D~V claims on ALL their QUAD SACDs [mastered from the original analogue masters], would SONY and other majors actually part with the masters....especially since most of them 'reside' in the USA!

edit: I would assume that ALL SONY's digital masters are DSD 256 remastered from the original analogue masters which is what MoFi and Sony Japan currently utilize to replicate their SACDs [Stereo AND multichannel, respectively].

honestly Ralph, i'd really rather we could discuss those titles we would like to see DV release in the future.
not only is it the topic in hand but personally i can't see what use it is to ruminate on what tapes were used where/when/which way up. if the results of DV's labours sounded like shit i might be more interested in getting stuck into speculating but they don't so maybe best to leave it at that?

 

[J. PUPSTER]

I think it was Brian Moura who set me straight that because of the fragility of the master tapes [not to mention their extreme value] that the majors were NO longer sending the absolute masters to the reissue companies for replication but rather digital transfers....made from those masters! And unless things have changed, that the absolute masters were kept in the country of origin. Perhaps Steelydave could shed some light on this ..... because from what D~V claims on ALL their QUAD SACDs [mastered from the original analogue masters], would SONY and other majors actually part with the masters....especially since most of them 'reside' in the USA!

edit: I would assume that ALL SONY's digital masters are DSD 256 remastered from the original analogue masters which is what MoFi and Sony Japan currently utilize to replicate their SACDs [Stereo AND multichannel, respectively].

If that's the case, there may another possibility, why couldn't DV engineers travel to the country where the tapes are and just work with them there. There's this new fangled thing called an airplane✈

 

[4-earredwonder]

honestly Ralph, i'd really rather we could discuss those titles we would like to see DV release in the future.
not only is it the topic in hand but personally i can't see what use it is to ruminate on what tapes were used where/when/which way up. if the results of DV's labours sounded like shit i might be more interested in getting stuck into speculating but they don't so maybe best to leave it at that?

No argument here. And the fact that EVERY D~V disc I have in my collection sounds UTTERLY SUPERB and is impeccably mastered is why I always refer to Michael Dutton [affectionately] as THE WIZARD!

 

[4-earredwonder]

If that's the case, there may another possibility, why couldn't DV engineers travel to the country where the tapes are and just work with them there. There's this new fangled thing called an airplane✈

What and Miss Tea Time?

 

[ubertrout]

I think it was Brian Moura who set me straight that because of the fragility of the master tapes [not to mention their extreme value] that the majors were NO longer sending the absolute masters to the reissue companies for replication but rather digital transfers....made from those masters! And unless things have changed, that the absolute masters were kept in the country of origin. Perhaps Steelydave could shed some light on this ..... because from what D~V claims on ALL their QUAD SACDs [mastered from the original analogue masters], would SONY and other majors actually part with the masters....especially since most of them 'reside' in the USA!

edit: I would assume that ALL SONY's digital masters are DSD 256 remastered from the original analogue masters which is what MoFi and Sony Japan currently utilize to replicate their SACDs [Stereo AND multichannel, respectively].

I don't think it was Brian Moura, I think it was someone else. He was quite adamant that these were all from digital copies sent to D-V, but I'm far from certain that's true. I don't think Sony has been digitizing all the multitracks Michael Dutton used to make some of his quad mixes of classical works as well.

 

[4-earredwonder]

I don't think it was Brian Moura, I think it was someone else. He was quite adamant that these were all from digital copies sent to D-V, but I'm far from certain that's true. I don't think Sony has been digitizing all the multitracks Michael Dutton used to make some of his quad mixes of classical works as well.

It's all speculation, ubertrout, until we get THE definitive answer [if EVER] but all I know is ALL the Japanese SACDs [from the Classical labels] state DSD mastered from the original analogue masters which leads me to believe that the absolute masters aren't utilized anymore except for DIGITAL TRANSFERS....and are all done in house!

 

[quicksrt]

NO question is stupid, JP. I always thought the original analogue master tapes WERE still being utilized.....but the fact they're so old and fragile and usually reside in the country of origin makes transporting them to the reissue companies way too risky.

Can't wait to hear your impression of the surround master v2. Should bring you MUCH enjoyment.

If you are located in the city where the tapes are it is an advantage, AF was sent tapes, many tapes for SH/KG to sort through to find true masters which many cases the labels did not know which was which.

 

[4-earredwonder]

If you are located in the city where the tapes are it is an advantage, AF was sent tapes, many tapes for SH/KG to sort through to find true masters which many cases the labels did not know which was which.

Which would lead one to believe that a LOT of multitracks are NOT missing .... but rather MISPLACED!