So that's 2 things Silverlines are good for..
1.) Test tones,
2.) Narrow hinged DVD-Audio cases (*)
(*) so long as they're not DualDisc Silverline jobs..!
How Do You Calibrate Your Receiver's Surround Field?
- Thread starter skherbeck
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So that's 2 things Silverlines are good for..
1.) Test tones,
2.) Narrow hinged DVD-Audio cases (*)
(*) so long as they're not DualDisc Silverline jobs..!
What does "C weighted" mean? (sorry...novice
Don't worry some of us have been at this for yonks and still don't know what it means!
(I even googled it and I'm still not much the wiser, its all too technical for a tech-hell-no-phobe like me
A 'C' weighted audio measurement is one with a flat frequency response over the vast majority of human hearing, it tails off at the low end below 100Hz and at the high-end over 10kHz. So it measures the room/equipment response rather than takes into account how we hear as an A-weighted response does.
The ears A-weighted response is why people like using the 'Loudness' buttons when listening at low sound levels, as that boosts the low & high frequencies which we don't perceive as well at low volumes. 'Loudness' functions tend to thus have an inverted A-weighted form of response which gets flatter as you turn the volume level up, so actually becomes more C-weighted i.e. a flat response.
What does "C weighted" mean? (sorry...novice
I don't particularly understand it, just know it's a specification of the measurement! So if you use an SPL meter to set up your room, it needs to be measuring according to C-weighting, which I imagine would be specified on the box or on google. Also I have no idea how good cell phone mics are for this kind of thing, or how they vary so app measurement could be tricky. I gather good SPL measurements can be obtained using the right app and the right mic plugged in, but I'm afraid I have nothing more helpful than that to hand.
alk3997
500 Club - QQ All-Star
There's one key to properly "tuning" a listening room. That's the real world test afterwards.
Before you tune, set your receiver's low pass filters correctly. Some people say that all speakers should be set to small. I'm not in that camp. I believe that front speakers can be set to large when the bass response is at least down to 20Hz +/- 3dB. However, most of the time the center and rear channels should be set to small with a lowpass filter set appropriate to the speaker. It is much easier to setup the bass in your room if the deep bass is only coming from a few (or one) sources.
Read your speakers' owners manual to determine the lowest frequency you should use with that speaker (satellites are usually 80Hz, large centers 60Hz, large rear channels 40Hz - these numbers will vary).
For tuning:
1) Setup the subwoofer with its automatic room compensation, if it has one.
2) Use Audyssey or equivalent (Parametric Room Acoustic Optimizer) for the receiver - use Audyssey Pro if possible. At least 7 listening locations should be used, even if they are only slightly different. Turn Dynamic EQ (or equivalent) to Off or Disabled. In other words, you want to keep the room shaping changes but you don't want any option that automagically causes sound shaping changes as the receiver's master volume is adjusted.
3) While sitting in your favorite listening position, use the Radio Shack meter along with the test tone out of the receiver. This is a comparison test. You are just trying to verify and correct if any speaker is louder than the others.
4) Use the Radio Shack meter with the test tone from a disc in your favorite player (many times the receiver test tone isn't balanced perfectly compared to the player) - Use HDMI if possible so you are getting the original digital signal into the receiver
5) Play a 5.1-channel or quad disc which has good centered instruments in the rear channels. Chicago VI quad comes to mind and listen for the brass. It should sound like it's coming out of the tip of your nose if you are in the listening sweet spot
6) Play a disc that pans an instrument around the room. If you can hear the instrument changing sound quality as it is going between speakers, something is wrong. If you can hear an increase or decrease in volume as the pan goes around, something is wrong.
7) If you want to check your front left/right levels in the real world, use a quad disc with the vocals panned in the center. If they sound like they are coming out of your center channel (which is not being used on a quad disc) your front left / right levels are even compared to each other.
If you do all that and, most of the time, nothing sounds localized to a single speaker on a modern surround disc, you've done well.
Audyssey is not perfect and can be 1 or 2 dBs off per speaker. The same with the receiver test tone. Most receivers are mass produced (even a $5K and greater receiver) and are not individually leveled. The key is to try it and see how close you really are when playing a disc. BTW, I still use, for tuning 5.1-channels, the Telarc Tchaikovsky 5.1-Channel DVD-Audio disc. Very usable test tones.
Hope that helps.
Andy
Before you tune, set your receiver's low pass filters correctly. Some people say that all speakers should be set to small. I'm not in that camp. I believe that front speakers can be set to large when the bass response is at least down to 20Hz +/- 3dB. However, most of the time the center and rear channels should be set to small with a lowpass filter set appropriate to the speaker. It is much easier to setup the bass in your room if the deep bass is only coming from a few (or one) sources.
Read your speakers' owners manual to determine the lowest frequency you should use with that speaker (satellites are usually 80Hz, large centers 60Hz, large rear channels 40Hz - these numbers will vary).
For tuning:
1) Setup the subwoofer with its automatic room compensation, if it has one.
2) Use Audyssey or equivalent (Parametric Room Acoustic Optimizer) for the receiver - use Audyssey Pro if possible. At least 7 listening locations should be used, even if they are only slightly different. Turn Dynamic EQ (or equivalent) to Off or Disabled. In other words, you want to keep the room shaping changes but you don't want any option that automagically causes sound shaping changes as the receiver's master volume is adjusted.
3) While sitting in your favorite listening position, use the Radio Shack meter along with the test tone out of the receiver. This is a comparison test. You are just trying to verify and correct if any speaker is louder than the others.
4) Use the Radio Shack meter with the test tone from a disc in your favorite player (many times the receiver test tone isn't balanced perfectly compared to the player) - Use HDMI if possible so you are getting the original digital signal into the receiver
5) Play a 5.1-channel or quad disc which has good centered instruments in the rear channels. Chicago VI quad comes to mind and listen for the brass. It should sound like it's coming out of the tip of your nose if you are in the listening sweet spot
6) Play a disc that pans an instrument around the room. If you can hear the instrument changing sound quality as it is going between speakers, something is wrong. If you can hear an increase or decrease in volume as the pan goes around, something is wrong.
7) If you want to check your front left/right levels in the real world, use a quad disc with the vocals panned in the center. If they sound like they are coming out of your center channel (which is not being used on a quad disc) your front left / right levels are even compared to each other.
If you do all that and, most of the time, nothing sounds localized to a single speaker on a modern surround disc, you've done well.
Audyssey is not perfect and can be 1 or 2 dBs off per speaker. The same with the receiver test tone. Most receivers are mass produced (even a $5K and greater receiver) and are not individually leveled. The key is to try it and see how close you really are when playing a disc. BTW, I still use, for tuning 5.1-channels, the Telarc Tchaikovsky 5.1-Channel DVD-Audio disc. Very usable test tones.
Hope that helps.
Andy
Last edited:
kap'n krunch
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
So that's 2 things Silverlines are good for..
1.) Test tones,
2.) Narrow hinged DVD-Audio cases (*)
(*) so long as they're not DualDisc Silverline jobs..!
I also have an SACD with test tones, ambient sounds and songs for the OPPO
AND
an AIX Audio calibration disc and music sampler for the BD player
Thank you SO much! This is one of the best things I've read on setting up a surround system in a long time - possibly ever! :upthumb
I also have an SACD with test tones, ambient sounds and songs for the OPPO
AND
an AIX Audio calibration disc and music sampler for the BD player
Yeah I've got that Pentatone SACD too Kap.. it's purdy koo.. tho' little did I know the test material is an exact replica of part of the contents on a Philips SACD demo/test/ disc thingy I'd shelled out some dosh on prior to that.. whoopsy daisy!
The app I use on my iPhone is entitled "SPLnFFT".
It's free. (I think…)
Very handy when you're SPLIFFT...
"Legalize It"..
alk3997
500 Club - QQ All-Star
You are very welcome. Lots of years (and pain) went into writing that up. But, the real goal (IMHO) is to getting your audio system to sound like what the producer / engineer heard when making the disc. Often that isn't very easy.
Andy
kap'n krunch
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Yeah I've got that Pentatone SACD too Kap.. it's purdy koo.. tho' little did I know the test material is an exact replica of part of the contents on a Philips SACD demo/test/ disc thingy I'd shelled out some dosh on prior to that.. whoopsy daisy!
Interesting!
Sorry that you had to spend that much dough on a test disc...BTW, where did you read this or find out?
It's just that , for audio stuff I only roam in this forum...it's the friendliest and most interesting...(and I also would need an extra hour or two per day if I went anywhere else!)
Oh I just found it through trial and error, bought the Philips demo disc and then picked up the Pentatone down the line to get more test tones and stuff (cos you can never have enough test tones, right?
) only to find out there was quite a lot of duplication between the two discs, actually I'm not sure if it is an exact replica, there's some narration on the Philips one.. not 100% iirc though.. I'll double check now and get back to you with the facts! How about that!
Oh I just found it through trial and error, bought the Philips demo disc and then picked up the Pentatone down the line to get more test tones and stuff (cos you can never have enough test tones, right?
Here's the Philips disc on the right, plus pics of disc contents;
I am sure that there are auto calibration systems that are working, but I still need to experience this... Since my Primare amplifier does not have auto calibration it is an easy choice for me. Though I use a DSPeaker for calibrating the LFE signal to my REL subwoofer.
I have always set all of my speakers to Large and still do - I see no resaon for not doing this since my rear speakers perform the base output very good even if they are dipols on the wall/ceiling.
I measure up the distance to all speakers.
Then I listen to the test tone from the amplifier and adjust all channels by ear so I get the impression that they all have equal volume. In my case this means to lower the fronts and higher the rears (keeping the center at 0).
The subwoofer level I adjust from the sweet spot, using the REL remote, by listening to a couple of recordings I know by heart. I have my sub connected with both low level LFE and high level (taking the base signal from the two front channels).
Finished!
Most often I check the front-back by putting on a well known song like Elton's SACD Honky Chateau and listen to the backing vocals on Mona Lisas and Mad Hatters. I also check the left-right on some recordings in stereo or quad to verify that the phantom center is there to my liking, and adjust the toing in level if needed.
Right now I am listening to Rob Reed's Sanctuary II - a very good and balanced 5.1 mix and most important, very good music.
I have always set all of my speakers to Large and still do - I see no resaon for not doing this since my rear speakers perform the base output very good even if they are dipols on the wall/ceiling.
I measure up the distance to all speakers.
Then I listen to the test tone from the amplifier and adjust all channels by ear so I get the impression that they all have equal volume. In my case this means to lower the fronts and higher the rears (keeping the center at 0).
The subwoofer level I adjust from the sweet spot, using the REL remote, by listening to a couple of recordings I know by heart. I have my sub connected with both low level LFE and high level (taking the base signal from the two front channels).
Finished!
Most often I check the front-back by putting on a well known song like Elton's SACD Honky Chateau and listen to the backing vocals on Mona Lisas and Mad Hatters. I also check the left-right on some recordings in stereo or quad to verify that the phantom center is there to my liking, and adjust the toing in level if needed.
Right now I am listening to Rob Reed's Sanctuary II - a very good and balanced 5.1 mix and most important, very good music.
I think a key thing auto callibration can bring is EQ correction to the speakers. I can accept that auto-calibrate is a starting point that could be improved upon, but to improve upon it would require good quality instrumentation used correctly, and the ability to adjust as such within the system.
jhw59
400 Club - QQ All-Star
I used the set up mic that came with my Pioneer Elite placed at ear level on my listening throne. The rest by ear. Based on what I'm reading here, I think I did ok. The LAGQ surround discs are excellent for checking balance, etc.
timothyemerson
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
I bust out the tape measure to get the distances to my ear holes accurate atop my "listening throne" (jhw59 - love it!), then set them in ye olde Yamaha.
Fronts are set to 0dB and angled in towards my mug.
Centre is +2dB (I like the centre a smidge louder for movies and find that it suits me for tunes too).
My surrounds are just slightly behind my head and pretty much facing directly at my ears. They're both a bit further away from my noggin than the fronts. One of the surrounds is set to +2dB. This surround has a wall behind it.
The other surround doesn't have a wall behind it so some of the sound "escapes" behind me. This one is set to around +6dB from memory. A bit louder but by the time the sound has hit me, I perceive the level to be about the same as the other surround.
The sub is behind a chair to the left of the front left speaker. I've moved it all around the room and this spot seems to give the best results. Shame cos it's got a nice wood finish and it'd be nice to see but how it sounds is obviously more important.
I haven't used a mic to calibrate levels. I've just guesstimated levels based on what I like. I'm the only one who listens to it that cares enough, so whoomp there it is.
Fronts are set to 0dB and angled in towards my mug.
Centre is +2dB (I like the centre a smidge louder for movies and find that it suits me for tunes too).
My surrounds are just slightly behind my head and pretty much facing directly at my ears. They're both a bit further away from my noggin than the fronts. One of the surrounds is set to +2dB. This surround has a wall behind it.
The other surround doesn't have a wall behind it so some of the sound "escapes" behind me. This one is set to around +6dB from memory. A bit louder but by the time the sound has hit me, I perceive the level to be about the same as the other surround.
The sub is behind a chair to the left of the front left speaker. I've moved it all around the room and this spot seems to give the best results. Shame cos it's got a nice wood finish and it'd be nice to see but how it sounds is obviously more important.
I haven't used a mic to calibrate levels. I've just guesstimated levels based on what I like. I'm the only one who listens to it that cares enough, so whoomp there it is.
Timothy, your listening setup is remarkably similar to mine. I just don't have the wall issue with the surrounds, and the sub isn't behind anything. I have 5 identical bookshelf monitors, all within a few inches inches of being the same distance from my "listening throne" (I like that too), and at the same height (this last thing is important IMHO). If I sit back and relax on my throne the surrounds become more on axis to my ears, and the level increases slightly, which of course always sounds better because of that level increase, although I'm sure some of the difference I hear is due to the on/off axis response of the speakers. But most of the time that I listen seriously, I do not sit back. I sit forward on my throne. I find this does significantly change the perceived rear levels, and increases the perceived front levels as well. But if I set the system up based in the forward throne position and then recline, this produces a sound that I dislike because the rear sound center axis are falling in front of my ears and the front gets slightly lower in level. So I set it up assuming a reclined listening position.
When I explain to first time guests that there is a significant difference in the two listening postures, I always get funny looks, until they actually listen while sitting back and sitting forward. It is easy to detect.
Am I the only one who notices this?
timothyemerson
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
LuvMyQuad, you ain't alone brother: I notice this also.
I tend to sit back but my spine is pretty straight and well-supported with a bunch of cushions as opposed to a reclining posture (spine injury - long story).
Whether I sit forward or back though, the surrounds are still slightly behind my ears and so it still sounds good. "Different... but same", as Mr Miyagi would say.
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