4x RCA to HDMI for Quadraphonic Record Player / Quad Demodulator to Use On HDMI Only System

[DudeRocks]

Any luck on hooking your quad RCA anything to your HDMI only system? I'm about to pick up my first quadraphonic record player which includes a built in demodulator, the Panasonic SL-701. I already have a great Dolby atmos 5.1.4 surround sound system, the Onkyo TX-NR7100. It has many "stereo" RCA inputs and many HDMI and even optical but no "5.1" RCA. Recently seen the 5.1 RCA inputs called AC3, if that helps.

What I'm assuming (which seems to cost me time and money) is there may be a receiver out there in the world that we can hook 4 RCA (FL, FR, RL, RR) to the same 5.1 RCA inputs (FL, FR, RL, RR, and ignore the Center and SubWoofer altogether) and this will at least play those 4 channels, ideally this receiver will also have HDMI or Optical out to hook up to my modern receiver. Anyone know if such a receiver or device exists?

I have seen stereo RCA to HDMI and HDMI to RCA, but I have not seen 5.1 RCA to HDMI which would help a great many of people looking to use their current systems.

Any help appreciated.

 

[surroundophile]

Any luck on hooking your quad RCA anything to your HDMI only system? I'm about to pick up my first quadraphonic record player which includes a built in demodulator, the Panasonic SL-701. I already have a great Dolby atmos 5.1.4 surround sound system, the Onkyo TX-NR7100. It has many "stereo" RCA inputs and many HDMI and even optical but no "5.1" RCA. Recently seen the 5.1 RCA inputs called AC3, if that helps.

What I'm assuming (which seems to cost me time and money) is there may be a receiver out there in the world that we can hook 4 RCA (FL, FR, RL, RR) to the same 5.1 RCA inputs (FL, FR, RL, RR, and ignore the Center and SubWoofer altogether) and this will at least play those 4 channels, ideally this receiver will also have HDMI or Optical out to hook up to my modern receiver. Anyone know if such a receiver or device exists?

I have seen stereo RCA to HDMI and HDMI to RCA, but I have not seen 5.1 RCA to HDMI which would help a great many of people looking to use their current systems.

Any help appreciated.

While this has been covered in other threads here on QQ, the Marantz line of receivers and prepros all have one set of analog ( "RCA" ) 7.1 inputs. No one has come across an input adaptor yet.

 

[DudeRocks]

While this has been covered in other threads here on QQ, the Marantz line of receivers and prepros all have one set of analog ( "RCA" ) 7.1 inputs. No one has come across an input adaptor yet.

I have yet to find other threads detailing how to convert 5.1 RCA to HDMI. However, you possibly understand what I'm trying to achieve here. Do you have a marantz line of receiver, which one, and have you successfully been able to use the RCA inputs with the intention of moving sound out of it using the HDMI output? Is there any other way to get the sound out of that receiver when you only have RCA jacks plugged into it, such as an optical out? The intention of course would be to never actually use speakers with that receiver for this, simply use it as an adapter.

 

[DudeRocks]

I have yet to find other threads detailing how to convert 5.1 RCA to HDMI. However, you possibly understand what I'm trying to achieve here. Do you have a marantz line of receiver, which one, and have you successfully been able to use the RCA inputs with the intention of moving sound out of it using the HDMI output? Is there any other way to get the sound out of that receiver when you only have RCA jacks plugged into it, such as an optical out? The intention of course would be to never actually use speakers with that receiver for this, simply use it as an adapter.

Found this on another site but no word if RCA to HDMI will actually work or not. Emotiva UMC-200 and UMC-1

 

[ClassicalSurroundFan]

The only thing out there I can think of that will digitize MCH audio is an audio interface. You might be able to play MCH flac or other files from a computer to your Onkyo at that point. This requires some studio engineering know-how and probably other gear to do well (ie. preamplifying the phono output to studio line or mic level to present to the interface, then recording into a DAW).

Basically you need a different AVR if you want to painlessly playback analog surround. There are many vintage 5.1 and 7.1 AVRs with the MCH RCA inputs selling for <$200. Atmos capable AVRs with MCH RCA inputs are thousands.

I suspect your best option then is getting one of these vintage AVRs and wire the four quad speakers through two stereo speaker level switches to select between the vintage and Atmos AVRs.

 

[DudeRocks]

So here we are on an audio enthusiast forum for quad surround sound and no one in all of the years of doing this has ever used RCA Surround inputs on a modern receiver to output sound to HDMI and the only way to know if it works or not is to purchase one myself. I called Crutchfield and their rep directed me to throw my new Onkyo to the wind and purchase a Marantz with DVD 7.1 surround RCA input, why would he recommend that? Because he even has never tried to sit two receivers side by side and attempt to use one to pass through RCA to HDMI to the other receiver.

Secondly has no one here ever attempted to plug in 4 RCA jacks to a DVD 7.1 surround RCA input? What is this the twilight zone?

If you want something done right they say... at this point of not finding any helpful information about what specific receiver or preamp to use for this I am left to my own means of simply throwing money at the problem until I find a solution. I will have 3 seperate amps in the coming weeks to attempt to use one as an adapter.

Trying to rationalize selling at a huge loss my Onkyo TX-NR7100 for the Marantz 6015.

 

[DuncanS]

So here we are on an audio enthusiast forum for quad surround sound and no one in all of the years of doing this has ever used RCA Surround inputs on a modern receiver to output sound to HDMI and the only way to know if it works or not is to purchase one myself.

If you want something done right they say...

If an AVR will output audio via HDMI to a TV from say the CD analogue source, or allows for timing correction on analogue 5.1/7.1 inputs (i.e. it digitises the signals) then it might work - I suspect its not a feature included by AVR manufacturers.

 

[ClassicalSurroundFan]

So here we are on an audio enthusiast forum for quad surround sound and no one in all of the years of doing this has ever used RCA Surround inputs on a modern receiver to output sound to HDMI and the only way to know if it works or not is to purchase one myself.

If you want something done right they say...

No one has done it because converting MCH analog to digital and not converting back to analog (speaker or line level) on the output probably doesn’t exist as a feature on any AVR. The only reason to digitize in an AVR according to manufacturers is to add processing to the signal and there aren’t really any consumer products that do this and leave the the signal digital. You may, as a quirk, find something that does this in stereo, but please do let us know if you find MCH.

This also comes up around here when people want to add DPLII to a newer system.

 

[DudeRocks]

If an AVR will output audio via HDMI to a TV from say the CD analogue source, or allows for timing correction on analogue 5.1/7.1 inputs (i.e. it digitises the signals) then it might work - I suspect its not a feature included by AVR manufacturers.

@ClassicalSurroundFan Looking at the direct modes on modern receivers that are supposed to leave the signal alone (no additional processing).

The Onkyo has a "direct" sound setting that is supposed to take the signal as it comes and play it out. However my Onkyo does not have the MCH RCA inputs.

• Onkyo Direct:shuts down some processing in the unit for a cleaner audio signal. The sound is reproduced using the same number of channels as in the source material.
  • Source site AV Receiver Listening Modes Explained | Home Cinema Guide

• Marantz Direct sound mode https://manuals.marantz.com/sr6015/NA/EN/DRDZSYyrtgycpw.php​

  Sound mode type	Description
  Direct	This mode plays back audio as recorded in the source.

 

[ClassicalSurroundFan]

@ClassicalSurroundFan Looking at the direct modes on modern receivers that are supposed to leave the signal alone (no additional processing).

The Onkyo has a "direct" sound setting that is supposed to take the signal as it comes and play it out. However my Onkyo does not have the MCH RCA inputs.

• Onkyo Direct:shuts down some processing in the unit for a cleaner audio signal. The sound is reproduced using the same number of channels as in the source material.
  • Source site AV Receiver Listening Modes Explained | Home Cinema Guide

• Marantz Direct sound mode https://manuals.marantz.com/sr6015/NA/EN/DRDZSYyrtgycpw.php​

  Sound mode type	Description
  Direct	This mode plays back audio as recorded in the source.

Correct. These will “play back” content with little or no processing in direct or pure mode. Play back means out the speakers or the pre-outs, not out hdmi.

 

[quadsearcher]

So here we are on an audio enthusiast forum for quad surround sound and no one in all of the years of doing this has ever used RCA Surround inputs on a modern receiver to output sound to HDMI and the only way to know if it works or not is to purchase one myself. I called Crutchfield and their rep directed me to throw my new Onkyo to the wind and purchase a Marantz with DVD 7.1 surround RCA input, why would he recommend that? Because he even has never tried to sit two receivers side by side and attempt to use one to pass through RCA to HDMI to the other receiver.

Secondly has no one here ever attempted to plug in 4 RCA jacks to a DVD 7.1 surround RCA input? What is this the twilight zone?

If you want something done right they say... at this point of not finding any helpful information about what specific receiver or preamp to use for this I am left to my own means of simply throwing money at the problem until I find a solution. I will have 3 seperate amps in the coming weeks to attempt to use one as an adapter.

Trying to rationalize selling at a huge loss my Onkyo TX-NR7100 for the Marantz 6015.

"Secondly has no one here ever attempted to plug in 4 RCA jacks to a DVD 7.1 surround RCA input? What is this the twilight zone?"

Do you mean plug 4 analog RCA cables from a DVD player (or any multichannel analog source) to 4 analog inputs (LF, RF, LR, RR) on a receiver, of the 7.1 input normally labeled DVD? Yes of course, that is how it is done with analog signals.

But if one has a receiver with analog inputs, what is the purpose of outputting HDMI from it to a second receiver (if it was possible)?
And no, I for one do not recall an episode of the Twilight Zone addressing this or similar questions.
The topic of this thread however, converting multichannel audio to PCM over HDMI via some dedicated device, is a useful question for those without analog inputs on the receiver.

 

[DuncanS]

@ClassicalSurroundFan Looking at the direct modes on modern receivers that are supposed to leave the signal alone (no additional processing).

The Onkyo has a "direct" sound setting that is supposed to take the signal as it comes and play it out. However my Onkyo does not have the MCH RCA inputs.

• Onkyo Direct:shuts down some processing in the unit for a cleaner audio signal. The sound is reproduced using the same number of channels as in the source material.
  • Source site AV Receiver Listening Modes Explained | Home Cinema Guide

• Marantz Direct sound mode https://manuals.marantz.com/sr6015/NA/EN/DRDZSYyrtgycpw.php​

  Sound mode type	Description
  Direct	This mode plays back audio as recorded in the source.

Correct. These will “play back” content with little or no processing in direct or pure mode. Play back means out the speakers or the pre-outs, not out hdmi.

As ClassicSurroundFan says, this is just a switch. My Pioneer SC-LX86 has 5.1 analogue inputs, but won't output that or any stereo analogue input over HDMI. All the DSP algorithms only work on digital sources. It has no ADCs inside to digitise the signal, I doubt any AVR has them unless it can doing timing correction on analogue inputs.

 

[DudeRocks]

Correct. These will “play back” content with little or no processing in direct or pure mode. Play back means out the speakers or the pre-outs, not out hdmi.

Anyone else have any idea on a preamp or similar device out there that "might" take MCH RCA and output to optical or HDMI?

 

[quadsearcher]

I found a discussion from several years ago at a DIY page, it doesn't appear there was any conclusion though. May be a lead there?

https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...annel-adc-with-hdmi-output-for-ht-use.332214/
It is such a niche market though.

 

[DudeRocks]

I found a discussion from several years ago at a DIY page, it doesn't appear there was any conclusion though. May be a lead there?

https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...annel-adc-with-hdmi-output-for-ht-use.332214/
It is such a niche market though.

I'm reading through a similar thread where they are making a list of 4.0 PCM decoding receivers as well Receivers that decode 4.0 PCM/MLP recordings over HDMI

And looking at some of that list I found how a Denon is being handling MCH in regards to finding something if any of them mention to output over HDMI it at least may leave the signal alone to attempt just using 4 channels
https://support.denon.com/app/answe...3MjNkTl9MNHpSdGk3ODc5S3N4Y19INjJDMUtnJTIxJTIx
So really
1. I will keep looking if any of these in that list of PCM decoding receivers might actually output over HDMI.
2. Purchase a new (old) receiver with MCH and see if it also has a leave it alone mode for only using 4 of the 7.1 Ch.
3. I ordered a Lafayette amp from 1973 that if there's a tape out from the Onkyo receiver or I can use the CD in on it and the Lafayette it will act as an amp for just the additional rear channels, which are already installed to the Onkyo so I'll have to manually detach them and reattach them when using it, every time it's used. Good times.

 

[ClassicalSurroundFan]

Anyone else have any idea on a preamp or similar device out there that "might" take MCH RCA and output to optical or HDMI?

You’re squeezing blood from a stone here.

 

[DudeRocks]

"Secondly has no one here ever attempted to plug in 4 RCA jacks to a DVD 7.1 surround RCA input? What is this the twilight zone?"

Do you mean plug 4 analog RCA cables from a DVD player (or any multichannel analog source) to 4 analog inputs (LF, RF, LR, RR) on a receiver, of the 7.1 input normally labeled DVD? Yes of course, that is how it is done with analog signals.

But if one has a receiver with analog inputs, what is the purpose of outputting HDMI from it to a second receiver (if it was possible)?
And no, I for one do not recall an episode of the Twilight Zone addressing this or similar questions.
The topic of this thread however, converting multichannel audio to PCM over HDMI via some dedicated device, is a useful question for those without analog inputs on the receiver.

You got it. Plug 4 analog RCA cables from a DVD player (or any multichannel analog source) to 4 analog inputs (LF, RF, LR, RR) on a receiver, of the 7.1 input normally labeled DVD. Naturally. But Who's on first? What I want to do is not throw my Onkyo TX-NR7100 in the trash because I want to listen to quad channels of sound over it, as it only supports HDMI surround in. So without spending thousands on another new amp, why not pick up a 10 year old amp for under a hundred on the used market and use it as a passthrough to HDMI out? Well, as we see here, no one can say that has ever been successfully implemented. My goal is to not have to unplug my rear speakers to another amp everytime I want to use them in quad.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

You got it. Plug 4 analog RCA cables from a DVD player (or any multichannel analog source) to 4 analog inputs (LF, RF, LR, RR) on a receiver, of the 7.1 input normally labeled DVD. Naturally. But Who's on first? What I want to do is not throw my Onkyo TX-NR7100 in the trash because I want to listen to quad channels of sound over it, as it only supports HDMI surround in. So without spending thousands on another new amp, why not pick up a 10 year old amp for under a hundred on the used market and use it as a passthrough to HDMI out? Well, as we see here, no one can say that has ever been successfully implemented. My goal is to not have to unplug my rear speakers to another amp everytime I want to use them in quad.

DTB & @chucky3042 at Involve may be working on a solution, but you’ll probably have to buy a Surround Master to get one

 

[DudeRocks]

DTB & @chucky3042 at Involve may be working on a solution, but you’ll probably have to buy a Surround Master to get one

I sent them an email on this question and waiting to hear back, I am gladly throwing my money at this problem if they can sell me something I will gladly buy it. I see they added optical in, but not out! Looks like it takes optical or stereo RCA in and converts it to MCH RCA out which my Onkyo can't use. It's a surround decoder, we need a surround encoder. I'm raising an eyebrow at taking apart two of those stereo RCA to HDMI converters to see if it's possible to wire up one to the other HDMI out... thinking on it... If there's such a device for stereo, I can't see why there is no such device for MCH. I have yet to see one.

 

[Electric Moo]

Yes HDMI was basically designed to prevent any of this-->copy protection. So good luck getting it to work with any new gear as they've stopped using RCA, more or less?