5.2.2 vs. 5.2.4?

[riskylogic]

In 7.1.4, the backing vocals throughout the xPropaganda albums are usually mixed to the side speakers and all four heights ("top middle") - so they image somewhere above ear level, but not completely up into the ceiling. It sounds interesting in pretty much any Atmos configuration (5.1.2, 5.1.4, etc).

You'll want to get those sides set up for Eno, all the lead vocals are in them.

My 5.2.2 system has side surrounds and middle ceiling speakers and no rears at all. There's a wall behind the couch. My new Denon receiver actually has a setting for middle height speakers, but my Yamaha doesn't so I have the heights identified as fronts. So the xPropaganda backing vocals sound like they are completely in the back. The 5.2.4 system has side surrounds; rear surrounds are what I'm missing.

 

[H.A.L.]

I got a sense listening to Eno last night in 5.1 that there might be all sorts of "inside the room" type spatial objects floating through the room in a 7.1.4 setup, is that how it sounds to you?

Don't have my Eno yet (fingers crossed it hasn't sold out), but to me the ABBEY ROAD in Dolby Atmos has those sounds for sure!
I have a 7.2.4 with Denon AVR-X8500HA (great amp, btw).

[edit: had wrong Denon model; corrected]

 

[dabl]

Use mic stands if you can't mount on wall or ceiling?

One reason I never want a rental.

This reminded me of a setup I saw with this kind of idea

Thread is here

 

[riskylogic]

Don't have my Eno yet (fingers crossed it hasn't sold out), but to me the ABBEY ROAD in Dolby Atmos has those sounds for sure!
I have a 7.2.4 with Denon AVR-X8500HA (great amp, btw).

[edit: had wrong Denon model; corrected]

That's top of the line, mine is bottom of the line at one third of the price. The 3700 is a bit underpowered, and you need to add at least a stereo amp to get to 11 channels. I might end up swapping it with my Yamaha and use it as a preamp in my other system.

 

[MidiMagic]

OK, what's your secret? Where are you getting the money to buy all of this?

 

[riskylogic]

OK, what's your secret? Where are you getting the money to buy all of this?

Savings, of course. But yeah, at $1600 I think he Denon X3700H is the least expensive receiver to support 7.1.4. You also need another amp for at least two channels plus 11 speakers, a subwoofer or two. I'm doing it on the cheap, but it still ain't cheap. If you are starting from scratch, it seems like $3K is the bare minimum for the equipment. You also need a place to put it - that might be the biggest expense.

 

[H.A.L.]

This reminded me of a setup I saw with this kind of idea

View attachment 84627

Thread is here

Speaker stands are the way to go! Those in the pic are awesome, but I found two on Amazon that suit my front heights perfectly (and they stand on top of the r/l subwoofers for more height). The rear heights in my setup are in the ceiling though, a gift from the former house owner!

 

[perzon57]

Savings, of course. But yeah, at $1600 I think he Denon X3700H is the least expensive receiver to support 7.1.4. You also need another amp for at least two channels plus 11 speakers, a subwoofer or two. I'm doing it on the cheap, but it still ain't cheap. If you are starting from scratch, it seems like $3K is the bare minimum for the equipment. You also need a place to put it - that might be the biggest expense.

The Denon X3700H is now replaced by the Denon X3800H which now supports Auro 3D and 4 subs. I have a Denon X3700H and I may upgrade.

 

[himey]

The Denon X3700H is now replaced by the Denon X3800H which now supports Auro 3D and 4 subs. I have a Denon X3700H and I may upgrade.

How does the 4 subs work? Can you assign them to various channels?

 

[perzon57]

How does the 4 subs work? Can you assign them to various channels?

I haven't studied the manual yet, but I don't think that is possible, at least not with Audyssey. Maybe with Dirac when it becomes available later on.

 

[trkarp]

How does the 4 subs work? Can you assign them to various channels?

I have the X3800h and love it. The sub channels are not assignable, but it will be interesting to see if Dirac Live will affect it.

 

[barturtle]

I haven't studied the manual yet, but I don't think that is possible, at least not with Audyssey. Maybe with Dirac when it becomes available later on.

I took a look at the manual the other day. It's a 4 corner setup, with the closest speakers crossing over to the subs. Center across both LF and RF subs. 3 subs is LF, RF, and Rear.

 

[perzon57]

I took a look at the manual the other day. It's a 4 corner setup, with the closest speakers crossing over to the subs. Center across both LF and RF subs. 3 subs is LF, RF, and Rear.

I have 3 subs, but in the manual the only choice is two in the front and one in the rear. I have it the other way round, and it will stay that way, I just will connect the front subs output to the rears insted. I will not use the possibility to let the closest speakers crossing over to the subs, will use them all as LFE.

 

[riskylogic]

So I'm up to 7.2.4. My plan to hook up an old receiver with MCh-in didn't work out though. Although the Denon has 11 preouts (+2 SWs) you have to use all or one, with one being either the fronts or rear heights. Using the receiver just for the front for now but I will probably connect a regular amp instead.

Anyway, I played just about every Atmos bluray I have this past week, some more than once and I think I'm in a good position to answer the OP's original question: The biggest difference between the 7.2.4 system and my 5.2.2 system that has "middle" ceiling speakers is that the former has true rears. That makes a bigger difference with some recordings than others. Even though I thought the Kraftwerk Catalogue was already very good, it's incredible with 11 speakers. Porcupine Tree also much improved and the 5.1 mix of Free Hand is not all superior to the Atmos with 7.2.4. Abbey Road, Yello Point and YACHT all sound better too. The Future Bites is great but not really better than with 5.2.2. However, Goats Head Soup is even more worthless and I think I prefer xPropaganda with my 5.2.2 system. Haven't listened to Kick or Zimmer in Prague in 7.2.4 or Eno with 5.2.2 yet.

But the main point I'll make here is that going from one set of "middle" heights to "middle" plus "front" heights isn't going reproduce the effect of having speakers in the rear. With my 5.2.2 system the side surrounds are also the rear surrounds, and it's not the same. That's not a problem with 5.1s because that is what they are mixed for. But, I'm inclined to think you need true rears to get the most out of the better Atmos mixes.

 

[sjcorne]

Anyway, I played just about every Atmos bluray I have this past week, some more than once and I think I'm in a good position to answer the OP's original question: The biggest difference between the 7.2.4 system and my 5.2.2 system that has "middle" ceiling speakers is that the former has true rears. That makes a bigger difference with some recordings than others. Even though I thought the Kraftwerk Catalogue was already very good, it's incredible with 11 speakers. Porcupine Tree also much improved and the 5.1 mix of Free Hand is not all superior to the Atmos with 7.2.4. Abbey Road, Yello Point and YACHT all sound better too. The Future Bites is great but not really better than with 5.2.2. However, Goats Head Soup is even more worthless and I think I prefer xPropaganda with my 5.2.2 system. Haven't listened to Kick or Zimmer in Prague in 7.2.4 or Eno with 5.2.2 yet.

I think you'll be even more impressed with some of the better streaming selections. American Beauty is amazing in 7.1.4, as is Ocean To Ocean.