A new SQ method!!!

[mool]

Looks like a winner from here...my main concerns were that 1, yes, you have to save the separated files and 2, does correcting noise, rumble, etc make a difference when converting?

 

[Old Quad Guy]

Looks like a winner from here...my main concerns were that 1, yes, you have to save the separated files and 2, does correcting noise, rumble, etc make a difference when converting?

Yes it can. How your final conversions turn out depend on many factors. You don't want to do anything to interfere with the SQ / QS signal is the main thing. Less is always more IMHO or your end result can sound muffled. I prefer a few rumblings with the highs and lows more intact.

I like to clean after converting, although I've cleaned before converting and not noticed any deference when using only the Pop and Click filters lightly. If you use the other harder filters before converting that might mess with the decoding. But other's can chime in and share their experiences. Experiment a bit to see what works best for you.

Here's what I do. Try to get as clean a recording to begin with. I used to record hot, but have found recording at a lower volume helps. Decode, open the Stereo front and back decoded files in Adobe Audition's Surround Encoder and export into individual tracks and throw away the center and LFE files. After decode I use Wavepurity professional and use the "Track Processor." I only use the "Remove clicks and crackles" filter and do not use the rumble or noise reduction filters. I de-click the other options except "Find volume scale 95%" option (you may not want to use the volume scale option, but I prefer it). Wavepurity allows you to process as many files at once that you want. Now there are filters in Adobe Audition that will more or less do the same thing. IMHO the bottom line is whether you filter before or after decode, use only the click and pop options lightly.

Perhaps others here can share their experiences, tips and tricks?

 

[StarTrek1701]

After decode I use Wavepurity professional and use the "Track Processor."

Wavepurity? I've tried looking it up. Apparently, it is only available for purchase in Europe; specifically Germany? Original website is in German. Cannot find anybody selling it in U.S. I do not wish to trust a download. Any suggestions?

Thanks.

Glen

 

[ghalteman]

Can anyone provide a link to the newest SQ Script please? Is it compatible with Adobe Audition 1.5 (which I use)? Also any new QS links?

 

[Old Quad Guy]

After decode I use Wavepurity professional and use the "Track Processor."

Wavepurity? I've tried looking it up. Apparently, it is only available for purchase in Europe; specifically Germany? Original website is in German. Cannot find anybody selling it in U.S. I do not wish to trust a download. Any suggestions?

Thanks.

Glen

You can use the pop and crackle tools in AA. There is no problem downloading Wavepurity from this company as other members have also. There is also a disc option they can send to you, not sure where they ship, you can write them to find out. I did not use this option because download works fine.

Can anyone provide a link to the newest SQ Script please? Is it compatible with Adobe Audition 1.5 (which I use)? Also any new QS links?

I believe the latest SQ script for this method is in post #1 of this thread. Have not tried it with AA 1.5, but it might work. You can also use the SQ /QS scripts for AA 1.5 with these instructions in this thread: SQ Decoding with Adobe Audition for New Converters - Start Here

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...-Adobe-Audition-for-New-Converters-Start-Here

 

[ghalteman]

I think I read an earlier thread that said Phasebug will not work with Adobe Audition 1.5, but it will with 2.0. I don't know about the scripts, but Phasebug is supposed to be a critical part from what I read. I use SQ Decoding_7_AK_D with Audition 1.5.

 

[0tto]

strangely enough, but after placing PhaseBug in proper directory for AA and attempt to refresh list,
Audition of both versions (1.5 and 3.0) had crashed.
after removal of this plugin, both versions works fine exept won't to procede the script.
removal from script all references to this plugin made script works but result of decoded tracks quite
weird, particularly in the level between R and L channels in both of stereo pairs.

 

[StarTrek1701]

Right now, I have been archiving my Q8s and Q4s. I have not done anything yet with SQ de-coding using AA 1.5. I have not heard of "SQ method 7 D". Is there a thread that explains this method?

 

[neil wilkes]

strangely enough, but after placing PhaseBug in proper directory for AA and attempt to refresh list,
Audition of both versions (1.5 and 3.0) had crashed.
after removal of this plugin, both versions works fine exept won't to procede the script.
removal from script all references to this plugin made script works but result of decoded tracks quite
weird, particularly in the level between R and L channels in both of stereo pairs.

Works well in AA3 here, with PhaseBug in the AA VST plugins folder at C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Audition 3.0\Plug-ins, and not the public one at C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins
It's also important to make sure the script refers to the correct location of the SQ matrixed files on your HDD (F:\SQ Temp on my system)

 

[0tto]

thanks Neal. i did tried different placement for PhaseBug, including AA 3 plug in folder. it didn't worked.
finaly took off AA 3 and did fresh install, didn't touched anything in default setting, installed PhaseBug and magic happens - it's working now.
b.t.w. i'm talking about new improved version SQ Plus from Richard.
and regarding of difference between the tracks in single pair, my guess is it's an one track designated to be in front and the second are purposed for rear. but as far i cannot figure out purpose of such decoding, beside of inconvinience to compare those freshly decoded front and rear groups of stream in multitrack pane.

 

[xfiled]

STLJLC,Thank you for these awesome instructions...

I have done everything perfectly but I was wondering if someone can point me in the right direction for 26???
26. Create your surround disc. You will need something like SurCode CD Pro DTS. That is another story.

I have Surcode but i was wondering how i can make a surround disc now...

 

[neil wilkes]

STLJLC,Thank you for these awesome instructions...

I have done everything perfectly but I was wondering if someone can point me in the right direction for 26???
26. Create your surround disc. You will need something like SurCode CD Pro DTS. That is another story.

I have Surcode but i was wondering how i can make a surround disc now...

What files do you have now?

 

[xfiled]

What files do you have now?

thanks for the reply...

I have 2 wav files (front and rear) for each of the 12 tracks...

 

[slokopdeborrel]

And both these files are stereo so they make your front left, front right, rear left and rear right channel!
Woohoo! I'm starting to get it! Thank you all guys for the explanation.

 

[journstyx]

Hello all,

I just don't seem to get the Phasebug vst installed in Audition 2.0 and therefor the script and/or session doesn't work.
Audition 1.5 had a seperate VST directory. In Audition 2.0 there's a "vstplugin" in the plug-ins directory. However when refreshing vst/DX plugins, Audition freezes somewhere around 60% (apparently on a Roxio dx).
I will attempt re-installing Audition 2.0 and see if I get it to work then. If anyone has any other suggestions, please let me know. Best regards, Journstyx

 

[journstyx]

Hello all,

To answer my own question I've re-installed Audition 2.0 and tried again. This time the Phasebug VST plugin was recognized and I'm working on some album transfers right now to check on the various scripts. Best regards, Journstyx.

 

[Disclord]

As you work on the album transfers, please pay attention to decoded center front vocals and if the decoding script keeps them in phase between front left/right or not. I ask you about it because I've heard a number of script SQ decodes and none of them have center front in phase - in fact, none of the phantoms are phased properly - only the 'corner' speaker locations are decoded accurately. I've been trying to figure out if its just bad decodes that I've heard or if script decoding is destroying the phantom images - and unfortunately, I don't have Audition to try it out myself... but SQ decoding via the Fosgate Tate 101A keeps phantoms properly phased so script decoding should at least do likewise.

 

[oxforddickie]

I thought i'd best say a few words regarding the performance of the Center Front area when software decoding SQ. Yes, it's been something of a problem. It's not that they are out of phase, but the extraction caused some serious level and phase issues.

I've spent a long time working on this, and a few other issues, in an attempt to produce the final version of the procedure (no longer just scripts). I've completed the SQ-Fv scripts, which has been tested by the other two releasers, and to say that the feedback so far has been positive.

If anyone wants to hear the latest process in action, try DS6 (a classical re-issue) on my bog, or Romanotrax's latest release ( Johnny Mathis - live).

Obviously, all releases will use this from now on...................

OD

 

[ghalteman]

Have to try this once I upgrademy AA 1.5

 

[Disclord]

I thought i'd best say a few words regarding the performance of the Center Front area when software decoding SQ. Yes, it's been something of a problem. It's not that they are out of phase, but the extraction caused some serious level and phase issues.

I've spent a long time working on this, and a few other issues, in an attempt to produce the final version of the procedure (no longer just scripts). I've completed the SQ-Fv scripts, which has been tested by the other two releasers, and to say that the feedback so far has been positive.

If anyone wants to hear the latest process in action, try DS6 (a classical re-issue) on my bog, or Romanotrax's latest release ( Johnny Mathis - live).

Obviously, all releases will use this from now on...................

OD

One thought I had about PC decoding of SQ and the Center Front performance - what about extracting the Center Front signal, then doing the decoding and then adding back that originally extracted mono CF signal to the L & R front channels? Or extract CF, then apply it out of phase to the UN-decoded SQ signal to remove it from the 2-channel SQ signal - then do the full SQ PC decode and finally add back that originally extracted mono CF signal to L/R front? It would be treating it as if you had a 4 channel mix with no center vocals and a discrete vocal track that needed to be laid back in.

Does that sound 'doable' at all, or is your newest method getting really good CF performance?

The reason I've asked about CF performance so much is that I am really, really sensitive to phase - anything other than perfectly equal level and in-phase CF vocals or quadrature phase at equal level vocals (such as L/R back are encoded in SQ) absolutely drives me crazy - it's uncomfortable to listen to - a 'princess and the pea' syndrome I guess you could say! That's why Ambisonic UHJ/BHJ encoding never 'worked' for me and was/is so unpleasant to listen to - and the later QS albums that use the modified encoding that put Center Front at various phase angles between 10 to 20 degrees are also unlistenable. Non-logic decoded SQ is sheer torture due to its bizzare phase relationships from all the crosstalk and stuff.

I don't like standard "four speaker" quadraphonic playback with phantom center front either due to the slight phase shifts that can crop up (and I can hear the lower midrange frequency dip due to our ears hearing both speakers and causing a signal cancellation - the original Hughes version of SRS fixes this problem for me though) - Surround decoders with a logic-directed Center Front speaker were like heaven to me when they became available. And that is why, with my Fosgate Tate II 101A, I send both the front and back pairs of output channels through two Circle Surround units to extract a Center Channel. A sort-of "Surround EX" mode for SQ in the back and full CF creation in the front. Unlike the rear channels of Circle Surround that use dual-band gain-riding, the front channels of CS use actual crosstalk cancellation, along with a slight gain-riding of the center channel when no vocal signal is present. The advantage Circle Surround has for this use is that CS has no logic enhancement 'threshold' like Dolby Pro-Logic so there is no narrowing of the soundstage. (Pro-Logic - and to a lesser extent, PL-II - is designed to go into a partial Center Front enhancement + L/R front cancellation mode if no sounds are dominant, which causes PL's well known narrowing of the soundstage) In fact, it sounds like 3, fully discrete channels in front with no artifacts. And while encoding at the Center Back position in SQ was strongly discouraged by CBS (since there's no mono compatibility) unless the London Box was used (a rule that the SQ of Funny Girl broke!), I've been surprised to discover that most SQ albums do produce strong Center Back output from the Center Back channel of the Circle Surround unit.

So, with the two Circle Surround (Smart Devices Center Surround CS-3X Jr's) I have 3 front 'channels' and 3 back 'channels'. I need to get two more Smart decoders to derive the Center Side L & R speaker feeds - a good number of SQ releases have Position Encoded Center Side sounds. That would give me a full Octahedral (octophonic?) speaker layout, which is what Ben Bauer was recommending in the last years of his life. Greg Badger was also a strong advocate of it - and since SQ is actually an Octahedral matrix, using 4 great-circle arcs (on the Scheiber Sphere) to encode the full 360 soundstage, it just makes 'sense' to me to have an 8 speaker layout derived with the Fosgate and the Smart units. The fact that SQ is an octahedral matrix is why the Tate (and Shadow Vector) decoders can have a 3 axis control system and enhance 3 directions simultaneously without reverting to the basic "non-logic enhanced" matrix - with all other systems, such as QS and Dolby Surround, they are 2-axis decoders (since the third up/down encoding/decoding axis isn't used) and if more than 2 directions are dominant simultaneously, the matrix reverts to its basic "3-db" separation mode. In fact, most decoders, like the original Pro-Logic, reverted to the basic 3-db matrix if more than one sound was dominant. Vario-Matrix did to in its single-band version. Shure's Acra-Vector Logic specifically recognized 2 opposite directions and could enhance them without reverting to the basic matrix - Fosgate has always claimed that their DSM/DSL decoders could do more than one direction at a time; or as thier brochures stated; "Dynamic Channel Separation: sufficent for localization in all directions simultaneously" I never heard that level of performance.

One last thing... I've been thinking about starting a quadraphonic "dictionary" here on the QQ forums that everyone could add to - that way, there would be no confusions about the usage of terms like "center front channel" in SQ, etc... and everyone would always know what everyone else was talking about. What do you think? I'm gonna start posting one today that I hope you and others will add to or correct. Quadraphonics/Surround Sound has never seemed to have a set of well-defined terms for everything, unlike, say, television, were interlaced and progressive have specific and fixed definitions.

What does everyone think?