Beaver and Krause Gandharva Japanese QS LP Report

[Richard A]

Sorry I can't tell you as I don't know the answer. And DS is no longer with us. All I know is the transfers he did had EV source listed.

There seems to be an assumption there is EV behind these albums but I think there isn't. Have you heard them?

 

[fizzywiggs41]

In A Wild Santuary was also quad. Dreaming Spires did transfers of all 3 EVs

Well that definitely proves my point...that the album's in question are NOT EV-4.
Wild Sanctuary was recorded and released prior to any EV-4 Encoders.

I think that also applies to Gandharva, but just by a hair.

The first EV-4 Encoders were supposed to be received by the
end of December 1970 , according to an article in a mid December Billboard.

Those Encoders were likely up and running , in early 1971...but that's a guess.
The only info i found on EV-Encoders distribution , was published in mid 1971via High Fidelity magazine (July 71).

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Further to my disclosure that the album's in question are NOT EV-4 encoded , (but they do contain a type of matrix which lends itself to RM matrix) decoding.....i started a thread on EV-4 ..which can be found in the legacy matrix threads section.

Now keep in mind , that's information that I gleaned through two U.S. magazines from 1970 , 71 and early 1972.
Both High Fidelity Magazine and Audio Magazine contain relevant early quadraphonic development. You can easily download copies through
American History Radio.....as I did.

 

[Richard A]

Further to my disclosure that the album's in question are NOT EV-4 encoded , (but they do contain a type of matrix which lends itself to RM matrix) decoding.....i started a thread on EV-4 ..which can be found in the legacy matrix threads section.

Now keep in mind , that's information that I gleaned through two U.S. magazines from 1970 , 71 and early 1972.
Both High Fidelity Magazine and Audio Magazine contain relevant early quadraphonic development. You can easily download copies through
American History Radio.....as I did.

This is fascinating stuff but I am kind of hoping that anyone can confirm or deny US copies of these albums are encoded with some form of Quad ie I am looking for people who have tried them with a decoder ie actually heard them. As I noted above UK copy is plain old stereo

 

[fizzywiggs41]

This is fascinating stuff but I am kind of hoping that anyone can confirm or deny US copies of these albums are encoded with some form of Quad ie I am looking for people who have tried them with a decoder ie actually heard them. As I noted above UK copy is plain old stereo

Whether U.K. or U.S ...or Japanese they should contain the same matrix encode.

That is unless , the album undergoes a remix.

 

[Richard A]

Whether U.K. or U.S ...or Japanese they should contain the same matrix encode.

That is unless , the album undergoes a remix.

Well I can confirm the UK one does not and I have an EV decoder. The Japanese QS copy is the only one I have heard that is Quad.

 

[Francis Drake]

Right, i'm taking this from the site, not the one mentioned by Takicat, because it doesn't seem to exist, so i'm just passing on this info.

In A Wild Santuary was also quad. Dreaming Spires did transfers of all 3 EVs
There are three decodes of the three albums, but they are not EV-4. The first is DY.

So where did the EVs come from?. The UK release was straight stereo.
The impression given by what is written concerning those systems is that it requires accutare methods of decoding them to get correct results. also there appear to be no standard stereo versions.

If anyone has any issues with the above, i guess you will have to take it up with, well best to call him Mr Matrix.

 

[4-earredwonder]

This is pretty much all I know about these.

I tried accessing their website with NO success ........To have all three B&K albums in DVD~Audio would be a dream!

Which probably infers that Beaver and Krause have control of their QUAD analogue masters and perhaps NOT WEA!

Any further info would be MOST appreciated.

Thank you takicat for posting this

 

[4-earredwonder]

A fine article on the making of Gandharva:

https://www.soundohm.com/product/gandharva-lp

JAPANESE ONLY QS PRESSING

 

[Richard A]

Right, i'm taking this from the site, not the one mentioned by Takicat, because it doesn't seem to exist, so i'm just passing on this info.

In A Wild Santuary was also quad. Dreaming Spires did transfers of all 3 EVs
There are three decodes of the three albums, but they are not EV-4. The first is DY.

So where did the EVs come from?. The UK release was straight stereo.
The impression given by what is written concerning those systems is that it requires accutare methods of decoding them to get correct results. also there appear to be no standard stereo versions.

If anyone has any issues with the above, i guess you will have to take it up with, well best to call him Mr Matrix.

Thanks. Anyone actually heard these supposed Quad encoded non Japan releases if they exist ? So far the answer seems to be no. Until someone does, it appears that Mr Matrix is wrong. I came across a guy once in a forum who said that when Gandharva was released Beaver and Krause demonstrated it on a Quad system at some kind of exhibition. He recalls it sounding incredible and was very disappointed when it came out only in stereo. Having heard the actual Japanese Quad release I can confirm it is incredible and I suspect the Japanese went to the extra effort to release it in Quad for the Japanese market only. Bernie Krause could confirm the facts as he is still with us.

 

[Francis Drake]

Thanks. Anyone actually heard these supposed Quad encoded non Japan releases if they exist ? So far the answer seems to be no. Until someone does, it appears that Mr Matrix is wrong. I came across a guy once in a forum who said that when Gandharva was released Beaver and Krause demonstrated it on a Quad system at some kind of exhibition. He recalls it sounding incredible and was very disappointed when it came out only in stereo. Having heard the actual Japanese Quad release I can confirm it is incredible and I suspect the Japanese went to the extra effort to release it in Quad for the Japanese market only. Bernie Krause could confirm the facts as he is still with us.

I have come across the list of quad records on this forum, and it lists it as being encoded using the EV-4 system.
Are you saying the list and the person compiling it are wrong?

 

[Francis Drake]

Well I can confirm the UK one does not and I have an EV decoder.

I did a little research on the net and although my knowledge of the EV system is pretty flakey, i do find it hard that the passive decoders of the time were capable of producing anything that resembled a quad image with very limited front-l and front-r speperation and only 1db seperation rear l and rear r.
Sounds like a disaster area, and nothing that i hear on the decodes i have from "there".

 

[Richard A]

I have come across the list of quad records on this forum, and it lists it as being encoded using the EV-4 system.
Are you saying the list and the person compiling it are wrong?

Based upon the copies I have actually listened to via a decoder then yes that is exactly what I am saying unless anyone who has actually heard one of these supposed EV encoded records can say otherwise i.e is not just repeating information they have read on a list.

 

[Francis Drake]

Based upon the copies I have actually listened to via a decoder then yes that is exactly what I am saying unless anyone who has actually heard one of these supposed EV encoded records can say otherwise i.e is not just repeating information they have read on a list.

Would you not take the challenge and listen, and compare, the decoded EV and QS versions, lets say, 'take one for the group'?

 

[Mark Anderson]

Ironically, according to Mark Anderson's QUADRAPHONIC DISCOGRAPHY, Beaver and Krause's Gandharva and All Good Men both had QUAD releases and are on the Warner Brother's label

BEAVER & KRAUSE -
All Good Men. Warner Brothers BS-2624 (EV) [US & Australia]]
Gandharva. Warner Bros. WS-1909 (EV) [US, Cabada, Venezuela], QP-8177W
(QS) [Japan], K 46130 (EV) [UK]
{The titles above where released only in quad, no stereo version known}

Gandharva was reported in Quad Incorporated 1st edition as being EV encoded. All Good Men in the second edition. Billboard reported in '71 that Gandharva would be Warner Bros. first quadrasonic tape and the LP would be stereo. We never did see a tape release and I don't know where the thought of EV encoding crept in. These are not titles that I am familiar with so cannot weigh in on it being encoded or not and being out of town at the moment, I do not have access to my files for further information.

 

[Francis Drake]

In an effort to push this thread along to a positive conclusion, i came across this article about the live recording of the album, and that it was planned for Quad release from the start.
http://www.richieunterberger.com/gandharva.html
I will also post something that has to be considered as solid proof about the follow-up album.

 

[Francis Drake]

Hopefully, you won't see this as going off topic, but the following is from the insert sheet from my copy of "All Good Men". There would be no point of adding the information if it wasn't Quad !?

 

[Richard A]

Hopefully, you won't see this as going off topic, but the following is from the insert sheet from my copy of "All Good Men". There would be no point of adding the information if it wasn't Quad !?

There is a big difference between being recorded in Quad and released in Quad. People who have heard these albums in Quad need to comment here. I have heard Ghandarva in Quad on Japanese LP only. UK version not quad.

 

[Richard A]

In an effort to push this thread along to a positive conclusion, i came across this article about the live recording of the album, and that it was planned for Quad release from the start.
http://www.richieunterberger.com/gandharva.html
I will also post something that has to be considered as solid proof about the follow-up album.

Solid proof is someone who has heard it.

 

[Richard A]

Would you not take the challenge and listen, and compare, the decoded EV and QS versions, lets say, 'take one for the group'?

If I had an EV version I would....but so far no sign of it. UK LP is not EV. Its bog standard stereo. Jap LP is QS Quad