DVD/DTS Poll Black Sabbath - Paranoid [DTS/DD DVD+2CD]

[sjcorne]

Sorry for bumping an old thread but I just got this release today and my "quad" mix, is actually a 5.1 mix, with information in all 6 channels. From screenshots earlier in this thread, it looks like some discs actually were 4 channel quad mixes. Can anyone point me to which release has the proper 4 channel quad mix? (even if it sounds like garbage) Thanks!

Welcome to the forum! The audio information in the center & sub channels on this disc is actually derived from the four corner channels, probably via a center extraction plugin (or mono summation of the front channels) and low-pass filter. There are numerous surround discs out there that use transfers of the '70s quad mixes, but for some reason the mastering engineers feel the need to 'manipulate' them to 5.1 by adding synthesized center & sub content.

Unfortunately, this disc--which uses a poor-sounding needledrop of the quad vinyl rather than the discrete 4-channel master tape-is the only official release of the Paranoid quad mix. The best version out there is a fan-made transfer from the 7.5 IPS quad reel-to-reel.

 

[AlanLastufka]

Welcome to the forum! The audio information in the center & sub channels on this disc is actually derived from the four corner channels, probably via a center extraction plugin (or mono summation of the front channels) and low-pass filter. There are numerous surround discs out there that use transfers of the '70s quad mixes, but for some reason the mastering engineers feel the need to 'manipulate' them to 5.1 by adding synthesized center & sub content.

Unfortunately, this disc--which uses a poor-sounding needledrop of the quad vinyl rather than the discrete 4-channel master tape-is the only official release of the Paranoid quad mix. The best version out there is a fan-made transfer from the 7.5 IPS quad reel-to-reel.

Appreciate it! Is it preferable to simply mute the center and LFE channels (I edit all of my rips in iZotope's RX so this would be fairly easy to do)? Would that be more faithful to the original quad? Or were the other channels rebalanced to compensate for the center information?

 

[sjcorne]

Appreciate it! Is it preferable to simply mute the center and LFE channels (I edit all of my rips in iZotope's RX so this would be fairly easy to do)? Would that be more faithful to the original quad? Or were the other channels rebalanced to compensate for the center information?

I would definitely mute the center, but with the LFE I suppose it's possible that some low-end was shaved off the mains and fed solely to that channel. Perhaps it's best to A/B it with-and-without the LFE content and see which sounds better on your system? The front-to-back balance seems ok, though there are other quad-to-5.1 discs where that has been an issue--the Isley Brothers' 3+3 SACD immediately comes to mind.

 

[britmarc]

Was just perusing this Poll, and noticed a Japanese version; anyone know if that's the same mix and could it be a different mastering, as the UK version on the DVD (and later re-pressed in 2015?)

https://www.discogs.com/Black-Sabbath-Paranoid/release/2212420

More images
Black Sabbath – Paranoid
Label:
Vertigo – UICY-94182, Sanctuary – UICY-94182
Series:
Black Sabbath SHM-CD Paper Jacket Collection – 2
Format:
CD, Album, Deluxe Edition, Reissue, Remastered, SHM Mini-LP
DVD, DVD-Video, Multichannel, NTSC, Quadraphonic
CD, Remastered
Country:
Japan
Released:
Aug 26, 2009

 

[J. PUPSTER]

More images
Black Sabbath – Paranoid
Label:
Vertigo – UICY-94182, Sanctuary – UICY-94182
Series:
Black Sabbath SHM-CD Paper Jacket Collection – 2
Format:
CD, Album, Deluxe Edition, Reissue, Remastered, SHM Mini-LP
DVD, DVD-Video, Multichannel, NTSC, Quadraphonic
CD, Remastered
Country:
Japan
Released:
Aug 26, 2009

So then is it the same Sanctuary mastered discs as Freddie has suckinctly and lovingly bestowed a description of here?
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...anoid-dts-dd-dvd-2cd.11249/page-2#post-293487

 

[jaschalk]

Not a bad surround mix. Surprised by the negative ratings

 

[GOS]

Not a bad surround mix. Surprised by the negative ratings

I suspect, in most cases, those who rate it poorly have heard the Quad Reel version. The Quad Reel blows this version clean out of the water.

 

[Old Quad Guy]

Not a bad surround mix. Surprised by the negative ratings

Hello, welcome to the forum. I bought this, but didn’t vote on it. I believe the negative votes were not so much for the music or mix, but for the actual release.

If memory serves, the label that put this out used a CD-4 record and not so great. Whereas, this title was also released as a 4 track commercial reel. It was thought why didn’t they use that instead? And what happened to the master 4 track reel?

Still, better to get it out there anyway so people can enjoy it.

 

[edisonbaggins]

I suspect, in most cases, those who rate it poorly have heard the Quad Reel version. The Quad Reel blows this version clean out of the water.

That it does, Matey!

 

[gloco]

Agreed...I have both and the official release is dreadful. Listened to it once in disbelief, what a waste of money.

 

[weekendtoy]

I've never heard the Quad Reel but don't necessarily need to in order to ascertain that this release ain't that good. Not that good from both fidelity and surround perspective.

Lots of bonus points for being Black Sabbeth so a generous 7 was awarded back in the day.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Not that good from both fidelity and surround perspective.

IMO the fidelity is the major casualty. The mix itself hold up pretty well. Its the same mix as the Q4 I believe. The other thing that bugs me is a few different takes are used in a couple of the tracks.

 

[salsdali]

So I'm listening to Planet Caravan from a bootleg DTS and at high volume it's just exquisite.

Does anyone know who may have made this boot or where it's from because IMO it is a quad mixed to 5.1 DTS and IMO I have never heard such an awesome mix. The 44 kHz fidelity could be much better to even just 48 but, of course, a 96 kHz mix would just be perfect.

On "Planet Caravan", Osbourne sings through a Leslie speaker, with the singer telling Mojo in 2010, "Then Rodger Bain used an oscillator on it – whatever that is. It looks like a fridge with a knob on."

did I ever mention that I am the biggest fan of Leslie speakers ever. ✌

a fridge, that's like a 4 thousand pound printing press compared to a 2 or 1 thousand

like printing the Gutenberg Bible

 

[madscot]

I got this yesterday, listened to it twice and can’t understand the bad reviews, double stereo it’s not, I hear all instruments and Ozzy’s voice coming from all directions, even lead vocals coming discreetly from the rears, guitar solos, bass and drums panning, i’m very happy with it and voted a 9, the muddy production could be because it was recorded in 1970, obviously they haven’t cleaned it up but maybe that could spoil what is a brilliant record of it’s time

 

[ar surround]

I got this yesterday, listened to it twice and can’t understand the bad reviews, double stereo it’s not, I hear all instruments and Ozzy’s voice coming from all directions, even lead vocals coming discreetly from the rears, guitar solos, bass and drums panning, i’m very happy with it and voted a 9, the muddy production could be because it was recorded in 1970, obviously they haven’t cleaned it up but maybe that could spoil what is a brilliant record of it’s time

This set suffers from low scores because the quad reel absolutely beats the pants off it. I gave this set a 4 but gave the QR a 9. I just listened to the QR the other night and it gave me a big smile…I’m extremely pleased with it, even with the hiss.

Aside: Tape hiss never bothers me.

 

[madscot]

This set suffers from low scores because the quad reel absolutely beats the pants off it. I gave this set a 4 but gave the QR a 9. I just listened to the QR the other night and it gave me a big smile…I’m extremely pleased with it, even with the hiss.

Aside: Tape hiss never bothers me.

I’ve never heard the quad reel so can only compare it to the album i’ve had for nearly 50 years and this blows that away, i’m hearing sounds i’ve never heard on the LP or CD

 

[jimfisheye]

I got this yesterday, listened to it twice and can’t understand the bad reviews, double stereo it’s not, I hear all instruments and Ozzy’s voice coming from all directions, even lead vocals coming discreetly from the rears, guitar solos, bass and drums panning, i’m very happy with it and voted a 9, the muddy production could be because it was recorded in 1970, obviously they haven’t cleaned it up but maybe that could spoil what is a brilliant record of it’s time

It's purely because this is a poor copy with damaged fidelity. We have consumer copies of this mix from back in the day on Q4 and Q8 tapes to compare to.

This is not a case of someone neglecting to clean something up that had troubles. The original mix (as released on the tape formats) has none of the fidelity issues people are complaining about here. This flawed copy really does sound like a bootleg next to the original. (Which ironically is shared like a bootleg now from long out of print original consumer copies.)

This has nothing to do with damage from "lesser" digital formats either! Even a lowly core dts encode at 48k or even 44.1k should be able to deliver such a recording without damage. At least better than the remains from consumer copies! Someone screwed up pretty bad to result in this!

 

[jimfisheye]

I’ve never heard the quad reel so can only compare it to the album i’ve had for nearly 50 years and this blows that away, i’m hearing sounds i’ve never heard on the LP or CD

It's a unique mix with some very different moves from the stereo version!

Again, the complaints are purely because of the mastering damage here. You would be that much more blown away with a better copy!

I thought this band was kind of known and held in high regard. Their albums are SURE hard to find in full fidelity! We recently had a batch of "deluxe editions" released again that had the most stepped on distorted sound I've yet to hear these albums subjected to. Worse than the last batch - which set a new standard for bad at that point. The "HD" copies on HDTracks are a distorted volume war mess.

It's either original edition vinyl or that first batch of CDs made from what sounds like the EQ'd vinyl production masters. And then the shared copy of a Q4 for Paranoid.

 

[NYMo]

I'm just happy to have this in 5.1 at all...the original vinyl was also pretty dirgey as I remember.
Not my favourite Sabbath album.....although Fairies wear Boots is magnificent !
I voted 7

 

[Instrumentallyinsane]

I think it should be voted up just for the proper ending of War Pigs in the quad mix. I've always hated the speed-up-the-tape sound at the end of the original stereo mix.