Classical Music: Do You Prefer Immersive/Middle of the Orchestra or Ambient/Hall Multichannel Mixes?

[hobie1dog]

Ambient rear channels are very depressing to me knowing what could have been. (Sorry). They strike me as too close to faked quad, even if they are real.

+2

 

[bluelightning]

+2

+3

 

[ar surround]

+3

+4 (But perhaps this makes me an unsophisticated heathen when it comes to classical music.)

 

[bluelightning]

+4 (But perhaps this makes me an unsophisticated heathen when it comes to classical music.)

Not really. Some compositions are written with this surround aspect in mind. Quite a few include offstage elements as well. Besides who gives a crap what they call you so long as you are enjoying the music the way you like it. I personally think of listening to music at a live event and a recreation at home as two separate things. Each with different aspects to enjoy . That is my perspective anyway.

 

[Lute]

Ambient rear channels are very depressing to me knowing what could have been. (Sorry). They strike me as too close to faked quad, even if they are real.

I'll probably be taken out back and shot for saying this, but... Depressed is exactly how I feel about so many lame surround mixes/remixes of Pop and Rock music. So much of it sounds like double stereo or whatever. I can often get similar results just by playing the stereo mix through DPL-II. And... to add insult to injury many of these Pop/Rock surround mixes cost a king's ransom.

But to get back on topic, I never get tired of aggressively discrete surround mixes of classical music. Tacet, 2L, and Sono Luminius's discrete surround recordings might have been a little surprising to my ears when I first heard them. But upon subsequent listenings... I find that the more I hear them, THE MORE I WANT TO LISTEN TO performances in the middle of the orchestra.

One important issue, though, is that classical music consists primarily of acoustic instruments that are recorded in a specially designed acoustic venue. Voices and instruments require enough space to bloom. If this is factored into the recording equation, then discrete "in the middle" surround mixes sound absolutely awesome.

Anyway... as far as I'm concerned, there are way too few proper, kickass discrete surround mixes of all genres of music!

 

[4-earredwonder]

I'll probably be taken out back and shot for saying this, but... Depressed is exactly how I feel about so many lame surround mixes/remixes of Pop and Rock music. So much of it sounds like double stereo or whatever. I can often get similar results just by playing the stereo mix through DPL-II. And... to add insult to injury many of these Pop/Rock surround mixes cost a king's ransom.

But to get back on topic, I never get tired of aggressively discrete surround mixes of classical music. Tacet, 2L, and Sono Luminius's discrete surround recordings might have been a little surprising to my ears when I first heard them. But upon subsequent listenings... I find that the more I hear them, THE MORE I WANT TO LISTEN TO performances in the middle of the orchestra.

One important issue, though, is that classical music consists primarily of acoustic instruments that are recorded in a specially designed acoustic venue. Voices and instruments require enough space to bloom. If this is factored into the recording equation, then discrete "in the middle" surround mixes sound absolutely awesome.

Anyway... as far as I'm concerned, there are way too few proper, kickass discrete surround mixes of all genres of music!

Brett ....... The NEW

On QQ's Classical Music Forum. Proud of you, BUD!

The TRUTH is SPOKEN HERE!

 

[DuncanS]

Having been listening to the great D-V SACD Boulez Conducts Bartok I am definitely a fan of "immersive in the middle of the orchestra", for the same reason I like it in rock; I can hear and identify individual instruments and elements of the music.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Having been listening to the great D-V SACD Boulez Conducts Bartok I am definitely a fan of "immersive in the middle of the orchestra", for the same reason I like it in rock; I can hear and identify individual instruments and elements of the music.

Duncan, even though I likewise am a fanboy of discrete multichannel classical recordings ....... it would be a shame to overlook the literally thousands of NEW SACD recordings which not only sport state of the art sonics, superb performances where you can actually pinpoint individual instruments, etc., just because they feature ambient rears.

Labels BIS, Chandos, Channel, Pentatone, Alia Vox, Alba et alia work tirelessly to bring new and old repertoire into the 21st century at VERY affordable prices and it would be remiss if they were ignored simply because they don't actively employ the rear speakers. IMO, they are MORE than room filling and have brought immeasurable pleasure to this listener and I will continue to support their valiant efforts as long as they release these gems.

And unlike a plethora of newer non~classical recordings .... they feature NO compression whatsoever! If you want to give your system, including subs, a true work out ....... these little gems might just be the answer.

 

[surroundophile]

Duncan, even though I likewise am a fanboy of discrete multichannel classical recordings ....... it would be a shame to overlook the literally thousands of NEW SACD recordings which not only sport state of the art sonics, superb performances where you can actually pinpoint individual instruments, etc., just because they feature ambient rears.

Labels BIS, Chandos, Channel, Pentatone, Alia Vox, Alba et alia work tirelessly to bring new and old repertoire into the 21st century at VERY affordable prices and it would be remiss if they were ignored simply because they don't actively employ the rear speakers. IMO, they are MORE than room filling and have brought immeasurable pleasure to this listener and I will continue to support their valiant efforts as long as they release these gems.

And unlike a plethora of newer non~classical recordings .... they feature NO compression whatsoever! If you want to give your system, including subs, a true work out ....... these little gems might just be the answer.

It's been my observation that there are actually 3 types of multichannel classical recordings. Type 1 is "in the middle", where you are in the middle, and the orchestra is 360 degrees around you (like Tacet).
Type 2 is "immersive", where the surrounds carry the ambient sounds of the hall or venue where recorded. It is room-filling on playback and you can hear the surrounds. This can also include works where there may be a few moments of instruments in the rears, like the brass choir in Berlioz's Requiem.
Type 3, where the rear only carry ambiance. Most times with this type you have to put your ear up against the speaker to verify that it's even on because it's recorded so low!
Pentatone is type 1 & 2.
Channel and Chandos are type 2 & 3.
Bis is only type 3. (I no longer buy from them for this reason)
I'm not familiar with Alia Vox, Alba et alia to know.

 

[ubertrout]

It's been my observation that there are actually 3 types of multichannel classical recordings. Type 1 is "in the middle", where you are in the middle, and the orchestra is 360 degrees around you (like Tacet).
Type 2 is "immersive", where the surrounds carry the ambient sounds of the hall or venue where recorded. It is room-filling on playback and you can hear the surrounds. This can also include works where there may be a few moments of instruments in the rears, like the brass choir in Berlioz's Requiem.
Type 3, where the rear only carry ambiance. Most times with this type you have to put your ear up against the speaker to verify that it's even on because it's recorded so low!
Pentatone is type 1 & 2.
Channel and Chandos are type 2 & 3.
Bis is only type 3. (I no longer buy from them for this reason)
I'm not familiar with Alia Vox, Alba et alia to know.

Pentatone's own mixes are definitely in the type 2 or 3 class, but the quad mixes they reissued are more variable in my experience. BIS also has had some releases that use surround extensively in the Type 2 (for instance the offstage horns in The Pines of Rome) or even Type 1 (Aho's 12th Symphony) variety.

 

[hobie1dog]

With playing in bands most of my life , I want to have instruments all around me. Being in the 30th row back sucks for sound immersion.

 

[Franklin]

I had something on Delta Entertainment that was in catergory 3.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

An interesting recent Surround Sound release features classical guitarist Enno Voorhorst and The String Soloists from Cobra Records.
(It is available as a DSD Stereo, Surround Sound and Binaural download. Not available on SACD.)

As you can see by this YouTube video of the albums track #11 "Tango en Skai ", the guitarist is performing in the front and the string ensemble is arrayed along the sides and rear of the studio.
You can also see the "dummy head" microphone setup in the middle of the room that is capturing the performance for headphone listeners as a Binaural DSD and DXD release.

The album is quite good. I'd recommend it.
And it is on sale through the end of April at 15% Off with code AXPONAFAVES as one of the albums used to show off the new exaSound e38 8-Channel DAC during the AXPONA audio show.

View attachment 39866

Mobile homepage - NativeDSD Blog

Man I wish this was available as an SACD, love the Dyens’

Bump for this great thread also

 

[bmoura]

Man I wish this was available as an SACD, love the Dyens’

Bump for this great thread also

It's a favorite here. I have it in Multichannel DSD 256.
Just excellent. Definitely worth a purchase in Multichannel DSD!

Also worth mentioning are some of the other Cobra Records releases like the ones by Lisa Jacobs & the String Soloists and Misa Criolla by Musica Temprana.
Excellent recordings in Multichannel DSD (up to DSD 256) also available in Binaural DSD for headphone fans (I prefer the full Multichannel DSD editions via speakers).

Misa Criolla by Musica Temprana in Multichannel DSD (DSD 64, DSD 128, DSD 256)
DSD Exclusive, Not Available on SACD
https://cobrarecords.com/catalogue/COBRA0044-Misa-Criolla/

Locatelli Violin Concertos by Lisa Jacobs & the String Soloists in Multichannel DSD (DSD 64, DSD 128, DSD 256)
DSD Exclusive, Not Available on SACD
https://www.nativedsd.com/albums/COBRA0054-locatelli-violin-concertos

 

[MidiMagic]

Do You Prefer Immersive/Middle of the Orchestra or Ambient/Hall Multichannel Mixes?

Yes. It depends.

One thing I like is the idea of being there in the audience.

So I like the sound of the hall behind me, not artificially panned instruments.

I have quite a few records in this form, including several stereo records that give nice ambience in QS.

But in the case of the Tuba Mirum from the Berlioz "Requiem", there is a choir behind me in the theater where it is being performed. While they are singing, the ambience is in the front. I have a nice recording of this.

I also have a nice recording of a string quartet with one in each speaker. It is performed in a dry space, so no ambience. I also have a jazz record with a trombone player in each corner.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Do You Prefer Immersive/Middle of the Orchestra or Ambient/Hall Multichannel Mixes?

Yes. It depends.

One thing I like is the idea of being there in the audience.

So I like the sound of the hall behind me, not artificially panned instruments.

I have quite a few records in this form, including several stereo records that give nice ambience in QS.

But in the case of the Tuba Mirum from the Berlioz "Requiem", there is a choir behind me in the theater where it is being performed. While they are singing, the ambience is in the front. I have a nice recording of this.

I also have a nice recording of a string quartet with one in each speaker. It is performed in a dry space, so no ambience. I also have a jazz record with a trombone player in each corner.

Many factors to consider on this, so totally agree, venue, type of performance, how it was recorded... depends.
Even Atmos may offer up some nice sound going forward as long as it fits the genre (i.e. upper speakers just providing some room acoustics.)

 

[stevendive]

In hall recording for me. In part this is my reason for istening to ambisonicly recorded and played back material, especially the limited number of full (horizontal) B-format recordings I have.

 

[GOS]

It's a favorite here. I have it in Multichannel DSD 256.
Just excellent. Definitely worth a purchase in Multichannel DSD!

Also worth mentioning are some of the other Cobra Records releases like the ones by Lisa Jacobs & the String Soloists and Misa Criolla by Musica Temprana.
Excellent recordings in Multichannel DSD (up to DSD 256) also available in Binaural DSD for headphone fans (I prefer the full Multichannel DSD editions via speakers).

Misa Criolla by Musica Temprana in Multichannel DSD (DSD 64, DSD 128, DSD 256)
DSD Exclusive, Not Available on SACD
https://cobrarecords.com/catalogue/COBRA0044-Misa-Criolla/

Locatelli Violin Concertos by Lisa Jacobs & the String Soloists in Multichannel DSD (DSD 64, DSD 128, DSD 256)
DSD Exclusive, Not Available on SACD
https://www.nativedsd.com/albums/COBRA0054-locatelli-violin-concertos

I owned that Misa Criolla, it's gone from my NAS now. I suspect it was a casualty of moving files to a new NAS.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

It's a favorite here. I have it in Multichannel DSD 256.
Just excellent. Definitely worth a purchase in Multichannel DSD!

Also worth mentioning are some of the other Cobra Records releases like the ones by Lisa Jacobs & the String Soloists and Misa Criolla by Musica Temprana.
Excellent recordings in Multichannel DSD (up to DSD 256) also available in Binaural DSD for headphone fans (I prefer the full Multichannel DSD editions via speakers).

Misa Criolla by Musica Temprana in Multichannel DSD (DSD 64, DSD 128, DSD 256)
DSD Exclusive, Not Available on SACD
https://cobrarecords.com/catalogue/COBRA0044-Misa-Criolla/

Locatelli Violin Concertos by Lisa Jacobs & the String Soloists in Multichannel DSD (DSD 64, DSD 128, DSD 256)
DSD Exclusive, Not Available on SACD
https://www.nativedsd.com/albums/COBRA0054-locatelli-violin-concertos

Lisa Jacobs’ apparent effervescent personality really shines through to her impressive playing!