HiRez Poll Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD [DVD-A]/[SACD-JAPAN]

[key_wiz]

I have the UK quad mix. I like it a lot.

The three bonus tracks are in 5.1. Those are the same mix as the DVD-A I presume?

 

[sjcorne]

The three bonus tracks are in 5.1. Those are the same mix as the DVD-A I presume?

Correct.

 

[quicksrt]

Wow. This has GOT to be the most confusing thread I’ve ever read here!

And none of those links to the threads of other versions work.

It's a fine thread, it's only that Jon's introductory post states a quad mix that this thread is not about. Where it should be stated that there are two (US & UK) quad mixes, and this thread is not concerning either of them.

 

[key_wiz]

It's a fine thread, it's only that Jon's introductory post states a quad mix that this thread is not about. Where it should be stated that there are two (US & UK) quad mixes, and this thread is not concerning either of them.

Thanks! That cleared it all up for me!

 

[quicksrt]

Thanks! That cleared it all up for me!

You owe me big time of course. No biggie.

 

[HDave]

Time to correct this vote of Machine Head being in the first batch of DVD-AUDIO disc's I bought in 2001 (Core, BSS, L.A. Woman all Std. Jewel box). This title I've owned on Vinyl, 8 Track, Cassette and CD in that order and my vote of 10 had definite sentimental leanings, the first 8 track gifted to me on Xmas "72" along with a new reciever with built-in player.
So Value 2.5 for the different guitar solos compared to the Stereo versions
Packaging 2.5 the normal size CD case rules
Discreetness 1.0 not very good this category.
Clarity 2.0 better than the 40th Anniversary set.
So from a 10 now an { 8 } with no sentimental leanings, but I do own both Sacd's the EMI UK Quad and the Japanese release, the EMI UK being the best of all Machine Head formats.

 

[edisonbaggins]

I voted 9!
Quad and 5.1 mixes compared here:

This happens to be my favorite version of the available surround mixes, though all are cool and worth checking out.

 

[HDave]

Wished they would release all versions on Blu-Ray Audio, UK, US quads, 5.1 and Made in Japan tracks. This album by Deep Purple is as important to Rock n Roll as Sgt. Peppers was (Whatever style you want to label them)
A sentimental favorite of mine also. I probably could list 10 LP'S in my life that are like this in some way, knowing where I was, what I was doing when I first heard them. (Smoke on the Water). Getting older reminiscing and knowing that some titles I'll always keep handy. My twin Granddaughters at 11 have a great appreciation for music from Elvis onward. Which is a good thing and respectful.

 

[MoB1]

This DVD-AUDIO ... 2001 mix is almost the same as the SACD 2011

There are 3 strange "mistakes" in this mix.
1. The Bass solo from Pictures of Home....
2. The Drum intro for Never Before. (Fixed on the SACD 2011)
3. The Bass comes in too late on Smoke on the Water.

Nice to add the B-side When a Blind Man Cries (also in Stereo)
but why "delete" the second guitar from the intro (yes, like Roger Glover did in 1997... no complaints - just a stereo remix)

I'm still thankful for this mix.... it "forced" someone to release the Quad mix... in 2003.




The 3 mistakes...

 

[Matt Wilson]

I assume you guys are talking about the Warner/Rhino 2001 DVD-A when you're referring to the DVD-A in question.

 

[MoB1]

This DVD-AUDIO ... 2001 mix is almost the same as the SACD 2011

There are 3 strange "mistakes" in this mix.
1. The Bass solo from Pictures of Home....
2. The Drum intro for Never Before. (Fixed on the SACD 2011)
3. The Bass comes in too late on Smoke on the Water.

2. The Drum intro for Never Before
This mistake is only on the Digital Dolby 5.1 low res version that you can play on a regular DVD-player.
Very strange. Also strange that I just found out yesterday, when I was just going to check out the videos... for the first time in years.
You need a DVD-Audio player to see the footage. Highway Star and Lazy (Edited to 4 minutes of each song...)



Here is the Highway Star footage with sound from Made in Japan.

 

[Modern Day Warrior]

I have the dvd-a and I find it uninspiring. The rears are disappointing - it's pretty much a front-centric mix on my system. The fidelity is good and can be cranked but as a surround mix it comes off as boring. I find I'm not that far into the album when I'm reaching for something else to feed my surround appetite.

I find that if you crank up the rears a bit more it really comes to life.

 

[wrat]

Japan sacd,, GREAT album GREAT content very good mix solid 9

 

[Owen Smith]

Japan sacd,, GREAT album GREAT content very good mix solid 9

Except the rears are swapped on the SACD. Here is something I worked on years ago, although note I don't know whether this was the UK or Japan SACD release since I was working with files and didn't have the SACD itself:

"Comparison with the UK SQ mix originally released on LP and later on CD shows the SACD quad mix is similar, but not quite the same. Comparison with the US mix released on reel-to-reel and CD-4 LP reveals that the SACD is not that mix. Could the SACD contain the UK SQ mix with the rear channels reversed?"

Swapping the rears on the SACD and repeating the comparison shows that this is indeed the UK SQ mix but with the rears reversed.

 

[JediJoker]

Except the rears are swapped on the SACD. Here is something I worked on years ago, although note I don't know whether this was the UK or Japan SACD release since I was working with files and didn't have the SACD itself...

Wrong SACD. The Japan SACD contains the modern 5.1 mix from the DVD-A, and as far as I know, there are no mismapped channels on either.

 

[Owen Smith]

Wrong SACD. The Japan SACD contains the modern 5.1 mix from the DVD-A, and as far as I know, there are no mismapped channels on either.

I understood that the Japan SACD was the same as the DVD-A, but hadn't realised it's not quad. Thanks.

 

[edisonbaggins]

I understood that the Japan SACD was the same as the DVD-A, but hadn't realised it's not quad. Thanks.

The UK SACD is the Quad.

 

[Owen Smith]

The UK SACD is the Quad.

In which case that's the one with the rears swapped.

 

[Karonte]

I voted 9!
Quad and 5.1 mixes compared here:

This happens to be my favorite version of the available surround mixes, though all are cool and worth checking out.

Thanks for the video. I have the Japanese SACD and also the DVD included in the 40th Anniversary edition boxset and according to info the box, the DVD contains a DTS 4.1 based in the original quad mix. I have to say it sounds exactly as you're telling in your review, I can clearly listen to Ian Gillan's "voice triangle" intro in Highway Star.

Let me "steal" a couple of screenshots of your video for this:

In which case that's the one with the rears swapped.

I compared the waveforms shown in Edisonbaggins' tube, the ones from the US Quad mix and the UK Quad SACD. You can distinguish them clearly because the US Quad is "wider" than the UK one.

The waveform is bigger but the master seems the same in channels located in the first and fourth position but I noticed something strange between the channels in the second and the third position:



Then I cut the picture of those channels and decide to change between them. "Et voilà", here it is:



Now you can see they are the same channels. I can't tell which of them are Lf, Rf, Rl or Rr, however two of them are in different position in the US quad and the UK quad mixes.

 

[sjcorne]

Now you can see they are the same channels. I can't tell which of them are Lf, Rf, Rl or Rr, however two of them are in different position in the US quad and the UK quad mixes.

Despite whatever similarities appear in those waveform pictures, I can assure you that the US quad is a completely different mix--it's not just the UK version with a swapped channel. There are obvious differences in the way the instruments are spread throughout the four speakers, like the intro riff to "Smoke On The Water" coming from the front channels (US) rather than the rears (UK), and the vocals in "Space Truckin'" coming from the rear speakers (US) instead of the fronts (UK). The US quad also has a much wider mix of the drum kit, with the overhead mics panned to the rear speakers. The UK quad has the kit mixed in stereo across the front speakers, with very little drum sound in the rears.

The 4.1 DVD in the 40th set uses the UK quad mix, which matches the UK SACD. In fact, I wouldn't surprised if the DVD and SACD are sourced from the same transfer.

As stated in @edisonbaggins' video, there are three distinct surround mixes of the album--all of which have been issued in several formats:

UK Quad Mix:
SQ Quadraphonic LP
UK Quadraphonic 8-Track
UK SACD
DVD-V (40th Box Set)

US Quad Mix:
CD-4 Quadraphonic LP
US Quadraphonic 8-Track
Quadraphonic Reel

5.1 Mix:
DVD-A
Japan SACD

@Owen Smith is correct that the UK SACD's rear channels are reversed in comparison to the SQ Quadraphonic LP. I'm inclined to believe that the SQ LP has the proper channel layout, since the instrument pans mirror that of the original stereo mix. Some examples below:

• "Smoke On The Water" - opening riff:
  • Original Stereo Mix - left
  • SQ Quadraphonic LP - left rear
  • UK SACD - right rear
• "Space Truckin'" - opening riff:
  • Original Stereo Mix - right
  • SQ Quadraphonic LP - right rear
  • UK SACD - left rear