DVD/DTS Poll Derek & The Dominos - Layla & Other Assorted Love Songs 40th Anniversary (Ellioitt Scheiner 5.1 Mix) [DTS/DD DVD]

[4-earredwonder]

Just to repeat...my post didn't deal with a lossy vs lossless debate...it was merely a rebuttal against those that just dismiss a title because it's not "hi rez"....and I and others have said over and over again that the mix and mastering is more important than the delivery system....you bring up an important point that I agree with...the attitude of entitlement...even though most of us know that the surround pool of potential buyers is a tiny segment of the market place..it doesn't stop people from complaining about not getting stand alone discs...and when you factor in the state of physical discs...we are lucky to get anything at this stage...even these deluxe sets...I don't see them being offered in a couple of years..

I don't think this is his best mix...but it certainly is the best version I have ever heard...

It's the same thing, Clint. Layla sounds great but I can ONLY imagine how it would sound in 96/24 and now that's it's going for $300+ as an OOP item.....even more worrisome! I've already been through the TULL lossy 5.1 versus 96/24 LOSSLESS Stereo Debate. The STEREO 96/24 BLOWS AWAY the LOSSY DTS 5.1. I can hear it......I can feel it......but my hands are tied.

People can spend their money any way they want. But it doesn't always mean they're making the right choices.

And in YOUR heart and MIND you know I'm right ....... but in this age of FAKE NEWS, I'm afraid my rationale is Gone With The Wind! And that ain't a good thing. What ever happened to the adage "Goodness/TRUTH OUTWILLS ALL?"

 

[4-earredwonder]

Filet mignon?...c'mon Ralphie...we know you go to Costco and eat those hot dogs

Well, Clinty, those Costco Hot Dogs for a buck 'n a half with soft drink [and refill] sure beat those insidious pouches of "Hamburger Helper" which come with those pricey kitchen sink box sets WITH LOSSY CODECS!Clinty, would you give your best girl FAKE FUR? Clinty: "But Honey, I swear to God it's SABLE!" Girlfriend: "Don't bullshit me, Clinty, its RAT!"https://mymodernmet.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/pet-rat-photography-diane-ozdamar-12.jpg

 

[Blrac]

High res is a thing, but it's much less of a thing than (for example) proper mixing or proper mastering. I've certainly heard DTS discs that were more well done than DVD-As.

I concur...Don Henley--The End Of The Innocence is DTS and sounds superb to me. Same for Wings, Poco, and quite a few others.

 

[Blrac]

*sigh*

Whenever I see these lossy vs lossless debates around the forum, I usually keep my distance, but the fact of the matter is (and I don't mean any disrespect, I think you're one of the great active members here and I enjoy reading your posts) that you can't look at this from a perspective of entitlement. We don't "deserve" anything. The record companies owe us nothing. They could stop including surround mixes in these mega box sets and the sales figures probably wouldn't change much. We're lucky they've been so giving lately.

I don't care about codecs and bitrates and lossiness...I care about SURROUND SOUND. And this is the surround sound forum. A good mix is a good mix no matter what the delivery format. I just spun Fleetwood Mac earlier this evening and I thought it sounded lovely. Then I spun Redbone's Message From A Drum from a 40+ year old quad 8-track tape and thought it was perfectly listenable.

You are of course entitled to your opinion and you're probably right about all the technical aspects of these recordings, using separate players, etc. But I think these debates are awfully detrimental to the future of our hobby

Now on to the actual topic of this thread: Scheiner's Layla is his true masterpiece IMO...the immersion and separation in classic tunes like Bell Bottom Blues and the title track is just breathtaking. He makes some real quad-like experimental placement decisions that are just incredible, like isolating the guitar licks in Bell Bottom Blues in the rear channels only. It sounds absolutely gorgeous to me. I'm upping my vote to a 10. I sure wish more members could hear it...

I respectfully disagree with the sales figures. I firmly believe that we, as a group here, do actually have some influence in the release of surround titles. Whether this is a stand alone or inclusion in a box set. I don't think we have the financial persuasion to get everything we want (superior resolution surround mixes in BDA for every title available) but we certainly have influence. Why else would they bother including or releasing surround titles at all? Obviously they seek "our" money too. I believe we are a vocal minority and a well financed one, as well as being influential in other ways with some members here being in "the business." Sorry to hijack the thread again...

 

[markshan]

I concur...Don Henley--The End Of The Innocence is DTS and sounds superb to me. Same for Wings, Poco, and quite a few others.

Lyle Lovett is my personal favorite.

 

[markshan]

And in YOUR heart and MIND you know I'm right

They made a decision to put it on a format that everyone could listen to at the time. They felt it was too important for a boutique media. Right or wrong, I'm just glad to have it. It would have been better for ME as a DVD-A, but I don't fault their decision making process.

Obviously if it were put out today, it would be a BD, which would satisfy everyone except a couple people here who won't use anything but their 970s for playback. Maybe we will get a BD for the 50th Anniversary.

 

[markshan]

Scheiner's Layla is his true masterpiece IMO

For me, that's "A Night at the Opera". Vinyl is still my preferred way to listen to this album, but that one makes me want to throw my turntable away.

 

[sjcorne]

For me, that's "A Night at the Opera". Vinyl is still my preferred way to listen to this album, but that one makes me want to throw my turntable away.

That one is excellent as well. I don't want to clutter this thread with off topic posts, but I'm curious if you are referring to Scheiner's original recalled mix or the widely released DVD-A that was slightly tweaked by Brian May? I've heard both and there are some slight differences in both mix and mastering.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Lyle Lovett is my personal favorite.

And IMO, one of DTS Entertainment's FINEST moments! ALL the Stars were in alignment when this title was mastered.....a spectacular disc and I voted a 10 for content and mix.

 

[4-earredwonder]

For me, that's "A Night at the Opera". Vinyl is still my preferred way to listen to this album, but that one makes me want to throw my turntable away.

A wise decision to put it out on MLP DVD~A. I even like The Game [DTS Entertainment MLP DVD~A]. Both sound spectacular on my system. Wish they'd done the entire QUEEN catalogue.........but it just wasn't meant to be!

 

[markshan]

That one is excellent as well. I don't want to clutter this thread with off topic posts, but I'm curious if you are referring to Scheiner's original recalled mix or the widely released DVD-A that was slightly tweaked by Brian May? I've heard both and there are some slight differences in both mix and mastering.

Either. The differences are small compared to the vastness of the mix.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Either. The differences are small compared to the vastness of the mix.

IMO, the major difference being the Scheiner mix on MLP DVD~A is LOSSLESS and the 'tweaked' Brian May is LOSSY. Why mess with a home run?

 

[ar surround]

IMO, the major difference being the Scheiner mix on MLP DVD~A is LOSSLESS and the 'tweaked' Brian May is LOSSY. Why mess with a home run?

Unfortunately, it seems that debating the virtues of MLP DVD-A vs DTS is a moot point. How many DVD-A's of major artists works have we gotten in the last couple of years? MLP DVD-A is magnificent yet they managed to exterminate it anyway. Pisses me off...lousy cork soakers...DVD-A taken away from dedicated surround sound patriots by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

 

[markshan]

IMO, the major difference being the Scheiner mix on MLP DVD~A is LOSSLESS and the 'tweaked' Brian May is LOSSY. Why mess with a home run?

I was unaware of that.

 

[fredblue]

IMO, the major difference being the Scheiner mix on MLP DVD~A is LOSSLESS and the 'tweaked' Brian May is LOSSY. Why mess with a home run?

iirc its not quite that clear cut, the Brian May tweaked mix is also on MLP (and so, LOSSLESS!) DVD-A.

afaik, DTS Ents did a 1st short run (all promo’s?) in the U.S., with disc and rear inlay card both dated 2001, disc face silk screen (C)2001 info is printed in a semi-circle and inner tray card pale blue, of the DVD-A with the Scheiner only mix.

all the (retail?) DVD-A’s with disc and rear inlay both dated 2002, disc (C) face info of 2002 is typeset in a straight/square/level arrangement (unlike the semi-circle of the Scheiner only DVD-A) and the booklet remix credit in the 2002 version was updated with Scheiner & May credit, in both the U.S. & Europe (doesn’t matter if the tray card is printed pale blue or black) these are all the May tweaked, all lossless MLP DVD-A version.

Mr. May’s tweaked version of the 5.1 saw subsequent re-release on DTS 96/24 DVD-V in 2005 & HFPA Blu-ray in 2013.

there are pics & info explaining it all on QQ, just search for ANATO Poll & various threads here, etc.

 

[fredblue]

I was unaware of that.

that's because Ralph's not quite right!

 

[4-earredwonder]

iirc its not quite that clear cut, the Brian May tweaked mix is also on MLP (and so, LOSSLESS!) DVD-A.

afaik, DTS Ents did a 1st short run (all promo’s?) in the U.S., with disc and rear inlay card both dated 2001, disc face silk screen (C)2001 info is printed in a semi-circle and inner tray card pale blue, of the DVD-A with the Scheiner only mix.

all the (retail?) DVD-A’s with disc and rear inlay both dated 2002, disc (C) face info of 2002 is typeset in a straight/square/level arrangement (unlike the semi-circle of the Scheiner only DVD-A) and the booklet remix credit in the 2002 version was updated with Scheiner & May credit, in both the U.S. & Europe (doesn’t matter if the tray card is printed pale blue or black) these are all the May tweaked, all lossless MLP DVD-A version.

Mr. May’s tweaked version of the 5.1 saw subsequent re-release on DTS 96/24 DVD-V in 2005 & HFPA Blu-ray in 2014.

there are pics & info explaining it all on QQ, just search for ANATO Poll & various threads here, etc.

Thanks for the clarification, Adam. BTW, what is the difference between Scheiner's original remix and May's Tweaked version?

 

[fredblue]

ANATO 5.1 info;

2001 Scheiner U.S. DVD-A

https://www.discogs.com/Queen-A-Night-At-The-Opera/release/7425819

2002 Scheiner & May U.S. DVD-A

https://www.discogs.com/Queen-A-Night-At-The-Opera/release/2419315

2002 Scheiner & May Europe DVD-A

https://www.discogs.com/Queen-A-Night-At-The-Opera/release/1970168

2005 Scheiner & May Europe DVD-V (with visuals)

https://www.discogs.com/Queen-A-Night-At-The-Opera/release/764958

2013 Scheiner & May Europe HFPA BD-A

https://www.discogs.com/Queen-A-Night-At-The-Opera/release/5588236

 

[fredblue]

Thanks for the clarification, Adam. BTW, what is the difference between Scheiner's original remix and May's Tweaked version?

anytime, when i've time! i've gone on a little bit about it at QQ before, i don't think there's anything dramatically different but there's a few little things that stood out, off the top of my head; "shark!" is not in the rear on Scheiner's Death On Two Legs, piano is in the rears on Bo Rhap Scheiner Vn., that kind of thing. I'll have another playaround with it soon, long overdue a Night At The Opera.. a Night at the movies would be nice too! all work and no play and all that "Jazz"..!

 

[4-earredwonder]

As I love Queen's Greatest Video Hits [2 disc set/DTS 5.1 DISCRETE] wonder why May/Scheiner never tackled the remainder of the wonderful Queen catalogue?

https://www.amazon.com/Queen-Greate...248&sr=1-1&keywords=queen+greatest+video+hits