Dolby Atmos decoding hardware ???

[himey]

Hi Boondocks... I think that must make me the other one! I've been playing with trying to set up a (very) low budget Atmos system for the past few weeks and I'm just about there.

I had an existing 5.1 setup using a Yamaha RX-v667 7.1 reciever which is several years old now, and inspired by this article (Building A 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos System On A Budget | IAA) have picked up a second AVR (Onkyo TX-sr605) from ebay for £45 plus 4 second-hand ceiling speakers (Polk Audio RC601) for £90. I've used an old PC from work which has both HDMI and two Display Ports on the motherboard to drive both AVR's via ASIO4all (I used the DP ports) with decoding of Atmos content by DRP and WavPack files by Foobar. All seems to work well so far, balancing the levels from the two ARV's is a little tricky, but I used a sound meter app on my phone with a test tone file I created in Audition which did the job. I've only gone 5.1.4 so far due to space limitations, but I will add sides if I can work out the speaker placement. To run both AVR's to a single Subwoofer, I made a simple passive mixer cable like this (Why are two 1 kΩ resistors used for this additive stereo to mono conversion? (For audio inputs to an amplifier)) - I just needed a couple of 1k resistors at a grand cost of 7p each!!

I'm a fan of creating my own upmixes (see here: Demucs + CentreCutCL - Stereo-to-5.1 Script v 0.2b) and intend to make use of the extra height channels in future versions of my script. I am super excited that I can now hear the explosion of Atmos mixes that have come out over the past few years, together with Sony 360RA stuff - Bowie 'Space Oddity is great with the countdown circling above your head!

I'm quite keen to do a write up of the whole process similar to the article that originally inspired me - which I would post here so that others can also have a go.

Are you using Windows? Do you only use DRP for playback?

 

[sjcorne]

I've used an old PC from work which has both HDMI and two Display Ports on the motherboard to drive both AVR's via ASIO4all (I used the DP ports) with decoding of Atmos content by DRP and WavPack files by Foobar.

Glad to hear ASIO4All can indeed work for this, I kept getting distortion in various channels whenever I tried it with my Asus PC.

 

[zcftr29]

Are you using Windows? Do you only use DRP for playback?

Windows 10... I've tested DRP and Foobar and also Adobe Audition - All using ASIO4all

 

[himey]

Windows 10... I've tested DRP and Foobar and also Adobe Audition - All using ASIO4all

Do you use Windows 10 volume as the master volume?

 

[zcftr29]

Do you use Windows 10 volume as the master volume?

I'm still experimenting, but it seems the best thing to do is use the application volume (eg DRP or Foobar). Once I worked out a volume level on the AVR's that gives the correct balance, I set this as the default 'power on' volume on each receiver. That way, for general (i.e. family) use - they only need the 'main' AVR to watch TV/Netflix etc in 5.1 via a FireTV and can change the volume as much as they want. When I want to listen to full surround with heights using both receivers, I can just turn them off/on again and the volume levels will be correct. I'm using an Android remote for Foobar which has a volume control. DRP is great (and currently the ONLY way to play back Atmos on PC), but needs full keyboard/mouse control and is therefore much less convenient. I have done a few conversions from Atmos to WavPack by recording the output from DRP to Audition using this virtual audio device (LoopBeAudio - A Virtual Audio Loopback Device) which gives bit-perfect results but only in real time, so is rather slow. Playback can then be by Foobar. Hopefully Cavern will eventually resolve the distortion issues and conversion from Atmos to WavPack will be much easier.

 

[himey]

I'm still experimenting, but it seems the best thing to do is use the application volume (eg DRP or Foobar). Once I worked out a volume level on the AVR's that gives the correct balance, I set this as the default 'power on' volume on each receiver. That way, for general (i.e. family) use - they only need the 'main' AVR to watch TV/Netflix etc in 5.1 via a FireTV and can change the volume as much as they want. When I want to listen to full surround with heights using both receivers, I can just turn them off/on again and the volume levels will be correct. I'm using an Android remote for Foobar which has a volume control. DRP is great (and currently the ONLY way to play back Atmos on PC), but needs full keyboard/mouse control and is therefore much less convenient. I have done a few conversions from Atmos to WavPack by recording the output from DRP to Audition using this virtual audio device (LoopBeAudio - A Virtual Audio Loopback Device) which gives bit-perfect results but only in real time, so is rather slow. Playback can then be by Foobar. Hopefully Cavern will eventually resolve the distortion issues and conversion from Atmos to WavPack will be much easier.

Great info!
I think I can program my Harmony Hub Companion remote to control volume in Foobar. Volume control was what's holding me back from going above 8 total channels. My USB DAC and multichannel preamp are both 8 channels, so I have been discarding the sub channel, and mixing the center channels into the main channels using Audacity, to create 4.0.4 decoded Atmos PCM files. They actually sound great, but in the long run I might as well keep the sub/center since I do have the speakers for the channels.

Are you able to load Wave Pack files in Audition? I have been using wav64 because they load in both Audition and Audacity, while I can't get .wv files to load in either.

 

[zcftr29]

Great info!
I think I can program my Harmony Hub Companion remote to control volume in Foobar. Volume control was what's holding me back from going above 8 total channels. My USB DAC and multichannel preamp are both 8 channels, so I have been discarding the sub channel, and mixing the center channels into the main channels using Audacity, to create 4.0.4 decoded Atmos PCM files. They actually sound great, but in the long run I might as well keep the sub/center since I do have the speakers for the channels.

Are you able to load Wave Pack files in Audition? I have been using wav64 because they load in both Audition and Audacity, while I can't get .wv files to load in either.

No wavpack in audition... I used foobar to convert to/from wav64

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

For what it's worth... It's possible to use FFmpeg to convert 12-channel .wv audio files into 12-channel lpcm.wav contained audio files
[ffmpeg -i input.wv -c:a pcm_s24le output.wav]

 

[himey]

Foobar has an option to make any keyboard shortcut global so using a Harmony Hub to control volume should be seamless. Also, I found this, so in theory, no sound degradation in combination with ASIO.

 

[zcftr29]

Foobar is a swiss army knife... Good quality audio, file conversion, tagging, loads of plugins, customisable interface etc. It can even host vst's for audio processing (useful for upmixing), remap channels, resampling etc.

 

[humprof]

Foobar is a swiss army knife... Good quality audio, file conversion, tagging, loads of plugins, customisable interface etc. It can even host vst's for audio processing (useful for upmixing), remap channels, resampling etc.

Agreed. The only thing it's missing (for me) is a pass-through option for Atmos. For that I have to turn to Kodi or VLC.

 

[himey]

Agreed. The only thing it's missing (for me) is a pass-through option for Atmos. For that I have to turn to Kodi or VLC.

I remember seeing that it SHOULD work, but it just doesn't surprisingly.

The channel mapping is the feature that sets it apart. Audition has it but will only play one file at a time.

 

[himey]

No wavpack in audition... I used foobar to convert to/from wav64

Have you ever had issues with converting .wv to .w64 in Foobar? I did today, but there is a workaround using Audiomuxer and Audition.

 

[mandrix]

Hi Boondocks... I think that must make me the other one! I've been playing with trying to set up a (very) low budget Atmos system for the past few weeks and I'm just about there.

I had an existing 5.1 setup using a Yamaha RX-v667 7.1 reciever which is several years old now, and inspired by this article (Building A 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos System On A Budget | IAA) have picked up a second AVR (Onkyo TX-sr605) from ebay for £45 plus 4 second-hand ceiling speakers (Polk Audio RC601) for £90. I've used an old PC from work which has both HDMI and two Display Ports on the motherboard to drive both AVR's via ASIO4all (I used the DP ports) with decoding of Atmos content by DRP and WavPack files by Foobar. All seems to work well so far, balancing the levels from the two ARV's is a little tricky, but I used a sound meter app on my phone with a test tone file I created in Audition which did the job. I've only gone 5.1.4 so far due to space limitations, but I will add sides if I can work out the speaker placement. To run both AVR's to a single Subwoofer, I made a simple passive mixer cable like this (Why are two 1 kΩ resistors used for this additive stereo to mono conversion? (For audio inputs to an amplifier)) - I just needed a couple of 1k resistors at a grand cost of 7p each!!

I'm a fan of creating my own upmixes (see here: Demucs + CentreCutCL - Stereo-to-5.1 Script v 0.2b) and intend to make use of the extra height channels in future versions of my script. I am super excited that I can now hear the explosion of Atmos mixes that have come out over the past few years, together with Sony 360RA stuff - Bowie 'Space Oddity is great with the countdown circling above your head!

I'm quite keen to do a write up of the whole process similar to the article that originally inspired me - which I would post here so that others can also have a go.

That's great!
For some reason, I had everything working then, boom! Windows reared it's ugly head. But now I have my 7.1.4 working pretty good. Primarily I use it

Hi Boondocks... I think that must make me the other one! I've been playing with trying to set up a (very) low budget Atmos system for the past few weeks and I'm just about there.

I had an existing 5.1 setup using a Yamaha RX-v667 7.1 reciever which is several years old now, and inspired by this article (Building A 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos System On A Budget | IAA) have picked up a second AVR (Onkyo TX-sr605) from ebay for £45 plus 4 second-hand ceiling speakers (Polk Audio RC601) for £90. I've used an old PC from work which has both HDMI and two Display Ports on the motherboard to drive both AVR's via ASIO4all (I used the DP ports) with decoding of Atmos content by DRP and WavPack files by Foobar. All seems to work well so far, balancing the levels from the two ARV's is a little tricky, but I used a sound meter app on my phone with a test tone file I created in Audition which did the job. I've only gone 5.1.4 so far due to space limitations, but I will add sides if I can work out the speaker placement. To run both AVR's to a single Subwoofer, I made a simple passive mixer cable like this (Why are two 1 kΩ resistors used for this additive stereo to mono conversion? (For audio inputs to an amplifier)) - I just needed a couple of 1k resistors at a grand cost of 7p each!!

I'm a fan of creating my own upmixes (see here: Demucs + CentreCutCL - Stereo-to-5.1 Script v 0.2b) and intend to make use of the extra height channels in future versions of my script. I am super excited that I can now hear the explosion of Atmos mixes that have come out over the past few years, together with Sony 360RA stuff - Bowie 'Space Oddity is great with the countdown circling above your head!

I'm quite keen to do a write up of the whole process similar to the article that originally inspired me - which I would post here so that others can also have a go.

Hi zcftr29!
I was replying earlier today and my pc decided to crash....anyway wanted you to know I saw your post, will reply to this one later when things settle down around here. Later!

 

[mandrix]

@zcftr29, I can't use any editing tools, delete drafts or any other basic stuff on the forum for days now for some reason. So I waited until I had a little sleep and in better temperament!

But, it sounds like you have things figured out, that's great! I don't think you will get a sea change in sound with side speakers, but of course more is better with Atmos listening.
It's worth it to me to listen to Atmos with more channels. To me, the improvement over my Onkyo's 5.1.2 decoding and 7.1.4 is huge! But I think having 4 overhead speakers, instead of 2, is key for me at least. The side speakers are just a little more sweet on the cake. But even 5.1.2 is good, if that better meets someone's budget. After all, that's all I had until recently when @zeerround told me there was a path forward to piece together a larger system, and fortunately mostly with components I already had..

Yes, our approach to Atmos listening does not have to be expensive. I was fortunate in that I already had all the speakers and a spare AVR. But sounds like you did alright picking up your components without "breaking the bank" as some say. I think your decision to go with two HDMI-capable AVR's was a good one. If my spare AVR had not been analog-only input that is the direction I would have wanted to go. But if one is a pc user, and the spare AVR happens to be analog in, it only takes a HDMI>analog extractor to bridge the gap from HDMI to analog.

The Monoprice HDMI to 7.1 analog extractor device, and my lack of writing things down/poor memory sort of tripped me up a few times! You see, the extractor device I bought has four, 3.5mm outputs. Meaning of course for 8 channel output, each outboard connector carries two channels.
So, doing the channel check in the Windows Sound applet as a 7.1 device, I had to keep changing the outputs to find the two that would drive my 4 overhead speakers. "Ok Boondocks", you think, "so what?"
lol.
Well the outputs from the extractor that would play sound in the applet would turn out to not be the same ones I would have to use for my four overhead speakers using the Dolby Reference Player . That really had me going for a while but through trial and error I got it right. Later took it all apart and had to do it all over again! So in my case pencil and paper to take a few notes would have been in order. Or a phone pic! DOH!

As for your upmixing scripts, I was aware of them but have not given them an in depth try yet. I've been upmixing for 20+ years myself, primarily with Plogue Bidule. Recent times I have moved to a combination of Plogue and stem extraction programs such as demucs.
Really not much fun time lately at all, as Tropical Storm Nicole left my property a mess, with limbs and leaves and even a few dying trees on the ground. So lot's of raking and picking up limbs and such for several hours a day, or until my old body says "stop!" But I hope to get back in to mixing pretty soon.

Also I'm hoping to buy a 9.2 Atmos-capable AVR that has 11.2 processing and preouts. I suppose if I do, and in combo with my 5.1 analog AVR I could add two more overhead speakers, but the room with my pc's/audio system is not large so probably not. But I do like my concerts, and although live concert sound is often not the greatest, it would be nice to be able to fire up PowerDVD again and listen in more than 5.1.2.
Since my 2-AVR solution requires me to use ASIO4ALL, and PowerDVD does not support ASIO, that's the excuse I keep giving myself to get a new AVR. But we'll see how the "wife factor" goes!

Shoot me a pm if you would like further discussion. Or of course, anyone else that might need some info.

Ah, one thing I forgot to mention. Adjusting volume between my two AVR's turned out to be simple. I keep the analog input AVR 11 "points" behind the Onkyo and it seems pretty consistent.

 

[zcftr29]

@boondocks
Great to hear you are also having some success. I will probably stick to 5.1.4 since the vast majority of the music I have is 5.1/quad, so I probably won't be missing out too much. I suppose I could add a couple more ceiling speakers as I have two 7.1 AVRs now, but I don't think our living room is big enough to warrant it. I, too, also have the 'wife /kids factor' to take into account!

We should put our heads together and write a guide that might help others to also go 'budget' Atmos... I was looking at this earlier (VB-Audio VoiceMeeter) and thought it might be a viable alternative to ASIO4all which I have seen a number of people say can be a bit flakey at times - although so-far-so-good this end. They also have similar virtual audio cable software to LoopBeAudion which may be useful too.

 

[mandrix]

I think if there is interest a guide could be good. There's a pretty good one for Mac people on the IAA website, although some of it seems like could be adapted for the pc but at added expense for a USB device.
Your method of using two HDMI AVR's definitely simplifies things in terms of relating in a guide. Using the HDMI>analog extractor that I use is pretty straightforward but can be a little more time consuming to find the proper outputs for the second AVR, but there's only so many combinations of outputs for a device so it's just a try and see thing, don't get expected results, change outputs sort of thing.

Windows 11 is usually pretty accommodating for HDMI devices but can throw a monkey wrench into the works as it did for me several times and I just had to work through it. I honestly don't know if I could document that very extensively but a lot of it involved connecting the two interfaces and rebooting the pc so it could "discover" both devices. Of course if left connected Windows seems to adapt pretty quickly and incorporate them into the Windows Sound applet.

But for me Murphy's law always seems to single me out so I don't expect most would have much problem figuring it out. For example somehow my main AVR switched from HDMI input to analog and I could get no sound! About drove me nuts until I went through the set up and discovered that! But like I say, Murphy and me have a long acquaintance!

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

I must admit that I quite like the idea of using a Mac Mini with MacOS Monterey device to specifically decode the Atmos meta-data.

I'd like the idea more if there was something like a Raspberry Pi that could do the same thing...

 

[zcftr29]

I must admit that I quite like the idea of using a Mac Mini with MacOS Monterey device to specifically decode the Atmos meta-data.

I'd like the idea more if there was something like a Raspberry Pi that could do the same thing...

The RPi 4 has two HDMI ports... I have no coding knowledge and very little Linux experience, but if there were a way to aggregate the HDMI ports to get 16 channels of LPCM output that would be amazing! I think the Linux software for controlling audio interfaces is "Jack", but that is as far as my Googling on the subject has got so far.

 

[himey]

Getting Foobar2000 Volume control and mute to work with my Harmony Hub Companion remote, over Bluetooth was a breeze! Thanks @zcftr29! That was my mental stumbling block to adding more channels.