Elilot Scheiner interview from Feb. 2022

[gene_stl]

I am delighted to learn that he is a cranky old geezer , similar to myself. Excuse me old gentleman.

 

[~dave~~wave~]

Wow, quite a find, short & to the point, and seven months ago!
And now we're seeing the results of his misgivings.

There are several other threads this should be pasted into, I guess I'll start on that as a cranky old geezer with the time.

 

[sjcorne]

I'm disappointed he's not more open-minded. Inexperienced engineers unfamiliar with the source material doing the remixes is not a problem a unique to Atmos, it happened during the 5.1 and quad days too. You can't blame the technology for a bad mix. It's funny that he thinks the record companies want sounds to be flying all over the place in the Atmos mixes, more often than not there's just low-level reflections in all channels except the fronts.

 

[jefe1]

Wow thanks for posting this. As I don't have an atmos system and many people here like it Ill reserve judgement on whether its a valid take or not..... Im happy it can be downmixed to 5.1
However I am no longer shocked by anything the record companies do anymore. From throwing out multitrack tapes because they didn't want to pay storage costs or rerecording over them to now commanding engineers how to design their mixes....a standard approach to every piece of music....,, it shows what happens with the tension between art and commerce. Unfortunately you cant have one without the other. Thank god there werent art companies during the Renaissance or they would have disposed of Leonardos drawings or reused unfinished canvases for new commissions.
Shuberts unfinished symphony, Mozarts unfinished Requiem? Reuse the parchment we cant make any money off of these.

One can only hope there is a special level in hell reserved for record company executives.

 

[humprof]

I'm disappointed he's not more open-minded. Inexperienced engineers unfamiliar with the source material doing the remixes is not a problem a unique to Atmos, it happened during the 5.1 and quad days too. You can't blame the technology for a bad mix. It's funny that he thinks the record companies want sounds to be flying all over the place in the Atmos mixes, more often than not there's just low-level reflections in all channels except the fronts.

Yeah...I love Elliot, and listening to his mix of The Nightfly several times over the weekend (40th anniversary!), I was floored all over again at how brilliant he can be--what he did on that record and so many others in 5.1 is just head and shoulders above 90% of the Atmos mixes we're getting on Apple & Tidal. He's also got a point about mixers who don't really understand the music they're working with (and consequently don't do justice to it). The reason he does such great work is precisely because he does understand what's going on in the mood, the structure, and the arrangement of a given song. And when he talks about mixer friends who complain that they "can't get the mix right" because of all of Apple's constraints, well...we've heard that from the horses' mouths, many times now. And obviously the Dolby "certification" process would rankle a veteran like him, especially when that process doesn't seem to have prevented a flood of crap mixes. But his general attitude has a "you Atmos kids get off my lawn!" vibe. . . .

 

[sjcorne]

Steven Wilson should give him an Atmos demo

 

[4-earredwonder]

GOOD OLE ELLIOT: "IF YOU CAN'T SAY IT IN 5.1...GET OUTTA MY [OVER] HEAD!"

Maybe YOU should go to the Cinema MORE!

 

[4-earredwonder]

Steven Wilson should give him an Atmos demo

Most unfortunately, very few remix engineers are as adept as Steve Wilson in remixing for 5.1 and now ATMOS. Especially Steve's original music which is designed from the ground up for an ATMOS remix. And it certainly helps that Wilson is a fine musician in his own right!

As Scheiner points out, taking a classic album like Sgt. Pepper and remixing it for ATMOS can dilute the aural intent of the original recording engineer Geoff Emerick.

And yes, a lot of classic albums with dense mixes would certainly benefit from the ATMOS treatment ....... but should be done by remix engineers who do know the original music intimately!

 

[sjcorne]

As Scheiner points out, taking a classic album like Sgt. Pepper and remixing it for ATMOS can dilute the aural intent of the original recording engineer Geoff Emerick.

That argument doesn't really hold water for me, especially coming from Scheiner who's made a career out of creating retrofit surround mixes of older albums. Being for multichannel remixes of vintage music and then arguing it's against the intent of the original productions seems like a contradiction.

 

[humprof]

That argument doesn't really hold water for me, especially coming from Scheiner who's made a career out of creating retrofit surround mixes of older albums. Being for multichannel remixes of vintage music and then arguing it's against the intent of the original productions seems like a contradiction.

I think Scheiner's point was that if you have a good Atmos mix and you can't hear it in Atmos--i.e., if you're only hearing it "downmixed" to 5.1 or stereo, or if you're only hearing it in binaural over headphones, when it was really meant to be heard on a full-room system--then you're not really hearing the work as the mixer intended it.

 

[4-earredwonder]

I think Scheiner's point was that if you have a good Atmos mix and you can't hear it in Atmos--i.e., if you're only hearing it "downmixed" to 5.1 or stereo, or if you're only hearing it in binaural over headphones, when it was really meant to be heard on a full-room system--then you're not really hearing the work as the mixer intended it.

And Scheiner was also railing against hacks who really have no connection to the music and are just doing it to fulfill contractural obligations! If you recall, Steve Wilson, in an earlier interview, preferred the artist's involvement, whenever possible, in designing his 5.1 remixes.

 

[fredblue]

a disappointing ill-informed rant from my 5.1 hero.

his speech seemed quite slurred, i wonder if he may have had a stroke of some kind?

 

[4-earredwonder]

a disappointing ill-informed rant from my 5.1 hero.

his speech seemed quite slurred, i wonder if he may have had a stroke of some kind?

Quite possibly, Adam but let's not dilute the many achievements 75 year old Scheiner has accomplished over the years

Elliot Ray Scheiner (born 18 March 1947) is a music producer, mixer and engineer.[1][2] Scheiner has received 27 Grammy Award nominations, eight of which he won, and he has been awarded four Emmy nominations, two Emmy Awards for his work with the Eagles on their farewell tour broadcast, and the documentary film History of the Eagles, three TEC Awards nominations, a TEC Hall of Fame inductee, and recipient of the Surround Pioneer Award.[3] Elliot holds an honorary Doctor of Music degree from the Berklee College of Music[4] and is one of the only Americans to be awarded the Master of Sound honour from the Japan Audio Society.

And with RAY as his middle name, maybe there's a RAY OF HOPE, in time, that you can teach an old .....NEW TRICKS!

 

[J. PUPSTER]

a disappointing ill-informed rant from my 5.1 hero.

his speech seemed quite slurred, i wonder if he may have had a stroke of some kind?

Steady on mate, I kind of liked what all he had to say there, and don't forget, he's old!

I do like an occasional gimmicky panning of stuff (depending on the situation); was there any panning on "Yoshimi Battles The Pink Robots?"

 

[fredblue]

Quite possibly, Adam but let's not dilute the many achievements 75 year old Scheiner has accomplished over the years

Elliot Ray Scheiner (born 18 March 1947) is a music producer, mixer and engineer.[1][2] Scheiner has received 27 Grammy Award nominations, eight of which he won, and he has been awarded four Emmy nominations, two Emmy Awards for his work with the Eagles on their farewell tour broadcast, and the documentary film History of the Eagles, three TEC Awards nominations, a TEC Hall of Fame inductee, and recipient of the Surround Pioneer Award.[3] Elliot holds an honorary Doctor of Music degree from the Berklee College of Music[4] and is one of the only Americans to be awarded the Master of Sound honour from the Japan Audio Society.

And with RAY as his middle name, maybe there's a RAY OF HOPE, in time, that you can teach an old .....NEW TRICKS!

oh i'm very mindful of his achievements Ralph, some of his best 5.1 music mixes are some of the best 5.1 music mixes i've ever heard

 

[fredblue]

Steady on mate, I kind of liked what all he had to say there, and don't forget, he's old!

I do like an occasional gimmicky panning of stuff (depending on the situation); was there any panning on "Yoshimi Battles The Pink Robots?"

he didn't come across well.
i wish i hadn't watched it to be honest.

let's not kid ourselves (and two wrongs don't make a right!) there absolutely have been some atrocious Atmos music mixes already but there were plenty of lousy Quads and awful 5.1 Music mixes as well

 

[humprof]

he didn't come across well.
i wish i hadn't watched it to be honest.

let's not kid ourselves (and two wrongs don't make a right!) there absolutely have been some atrocious Atmos music mixes already but there were plenty of lousy Quads and awful 5.1 Music mixes as well

Points taken--although I still hear the core of Scheiner's rant as being more about structural problems with the "ecosystem" of Atmos (an ecosystem that devalues the work of talented mixers in multiple ways) than about Atmos as a format per se.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

a disappointing ill-informed rant from my 5.1 hero.

his speech seemed quite slurred, i wonder if he may have had a stroke of some kind?

Don't despair , he was referring to the atmos mix of SGT Pepper and not the 5.1. He says it's fine for movies, which is always the case for more channels.
IIRC he said something about too many channels beyond 5.1 ,some few years back. Sorta if you can't get it right in 5.1 why go for more.
As to that slur.....he has a speech Impediment . I noticed that the first time he was interviewed ,many years ago.

 

[sjcorne]

Don't despair , he was referring to the atmos mix of SGT Pepper and not the 5.1

The Atmos mix is an improvement over the 5.1, at least to my ears.

 

[jaybird100]

I am delighted to learn that he is a cranky old geezer , similar to myself. Excuse me old gentleman.

I'm a cranky old geezer, too, who shares his opinion, that Atmos is for movies, in a theater. Now, get off my lawn!