ELP Tarkus DVD-A Discussion (Not related to Poll evaluation)

[wavelength]

What are you talking about. Nothing was removed from this thread. Are you thinking of the other thread concerning the ELP 5.1 releases?

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...rson-Lake-amp-Palmer-Cataloge-in-5-1-Surround

I wonder if it wasn't some sort of system glitch. I also had an experience, in July as I recall, where I was sure that I had made a post but it was gone the next day.

 

[strat54]

What are you talking about. Nothing was removed from this thread. Are you thinking of the other thread concerning the ELP 5.1 releases?

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...rson-Lake-amp-Palmer-Cataloge-in-5-1-Surround

GE Someone is correct, my comments in this thread were removed. I incorrectly referred to the first pressing as the recall version because of the removal of "Unknown Ballad, I was not trying to infer it would or should be recalled.
I will be hesitant to post here if my comments are going to be randomly deleted.

This is the comment Neil made in the other thread about this one:
Re: ELP Emerson Lake & Palmer Cataloge in 5.1 Surround

For some reason there are a bunch of posts in the review thread talking about a recall announcement on TARKUS.
News to me.
Firstly, what recall announcement?
Secondly, the reviews thread is not the place for speculation - this one is. I hope Jon removes those posts sooner rather than later!!

 

[Old Quad Guy]

I incorrectly referred to the first pressing as the recall version because of the removal of "Unknown Ballad, I was not trying to infer it would or should be recalled.

I cleaned up the ELP Thread. I also posted wrong info unintentionally. Those of us who posted - Including Myself - all got caught up with Steven's first post from "Twitter" and kept repeating or inferred erroneous info, that the Tarkus title was going to be "Pulled" - it is not. We have the rare opportunity to perhaps get more DVD-Audio titles if we support this and the other ELP title.

It's no one's fault really, but 144 characters on Twitter is not enough info to give us context. Twitter can be a useful tool though. Twitter is not that far from where I live here in the San Francisco area and they just moved into a new building, so I know about it quite well. I recommend that a longer post with context, be posted on Facebook, own website or anywhere and just use Twitter for linking to the info.

The main thing going forward, is that we all need to get behind both ELP titles and BUY them. I know money is tight for many of us, but if we save our money, many places offer free shipping when one buys both titles together. These will make great Christmas or Birthday presents.

This is the review section. This very post will be removed, by those wiser than myself, to just keep the reviews in a month or so, as what has been the traditional way here at QQ over the years. But let's really support these titles please. As you know, Sony is sitting on the greatest collection of Quadraphonic Masters and they're now willing to do DVD-Audio.

 

[strat54]

ron welcome to the forum, if you are the rontoon I have been enjoying your roio productions for quite awhile, hopefully you will focus on more 5.1 surround releases.

 

[Robert van Diggele]

I've had all the original ELP LPs and starting collecting when Brain Salad Surgery was new. Tarkus is still one of my favorite albums of theirs and w/o a doubt my favorite track. I can't wait until I get my copy from Amazon (along with their s/t release).

Forgive me if this is frowned upon here but I get so inspired when I watch Rachel Flowers' performance of this piece. Amazing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrXuvkj5Vi0

Hi Ron , welcome to QQ. hope you receive your copies soon, they sound amazing. ( nice to see you posting here too, I am pfnl on AFG forum).

 

[rontoon]

ron welcome to the forum, if you are the rontoon I have been enjoying your roio productions for quite awhile, hopefully you will focus on more 5.1 surround releases.

Thanks everyone. I like this place. Think I'll stick around for a while.

 

[rtbluray]

A perfect 10.
Bliss...

Any plans for Trilogy?

Steven Wilson: "At this stage no-one has asked me to be involved in any further ELP remixes. I suspect that a lot will depend on how well received these first 2 are. My personal policy is only do albums that I'm genuinely a fan of, so that would rule out anything after BSS anyway.

SW"

 

[0tto]

is this the difference between remixing and remastering? If listeners feel certain frequencies are lacking, can't they make adjustments to their system? I would rather do that than have someone else remaster it to his or her taste.

that's totally different processes.
remix means utilization of master tracks to create a new, usually an alternative to the first, original, version of the song or tune.
remastering is process of making changes to how new version sounds in comparison to original and meant to improve the sound
fidelity but without any changes to original mix.
SW stated that lately he prefer flat transfer thus don't use post-processing. don't remember if this apply to those ELPs but pretty
sure both of his latest BD-A done in such way and sounds superb. but in this case recording was performed into digital domain
at 96KHz, when both of ELPs album were recorded onto analog equipment with significant tech. limitations, comparing to nowaday
equipments and storage.

 

[leevitalone1]

Thanks everyone. I like this place. Think I'll stick around for a while.

welcome rotoon, look forward to more 5.1 productions!

 

[leevitalone1]

Tarkus in surround is great! I can't believe that Sony gave us these 3 disc sets for such a low price. Thanks )

A solid 9!

http://www.surroundsoundmusic.com/blog/2012/09/10/emerson-lake-palmer-deluxe-surround/

I gotta put my 2cents in, It's such good news, they very easily could have stuffed them all in a set and put a $100.00 tag on it, and it would sell. One other thing, for a "dead" format it's doing business.

 

[HDJK]

I gotta put my 2cents in, It's such good news, they very easily could have stuffed them all in a set and put a $100.00 tag on it, and it would sell. One other thing, for a "dead" format it's doing business.

Agreed, but I sure hope Sony isn't reading this thread, because with some of the King Crimson discs I still need to get (don't like all of them) and with what's hopefully to come, my wallet is hurting enough as it is

 

[fredblue]

it's will work like you said if "flat transfer" used for already done master which has issues from previous mixing/mastering.
with multis you'll have different story. there is not such thing as not enough bass, guitar, vox, etc. on the track where
those particular part was recorded. so,in this case you'll have more/less discretely recorded vox and instruments and
that's will be your call in regard which volume level should be for this or that parts of the future mix, before blending
them together into single track.
usually presently used techniques involves two stages. first - mixing multis into final mix and second stage - sending this
mix for final touch-up by the sound mastering engineer. SW has well developed feel for the sound, his latest works is quite
a proof of this, thus he just does merges both stages in one by tweaking the sound during mixing stage.

are you saying you can't just do a flat transfer from the multi's, leaving each individual track as it was laid down, with no EQ or compression?

then you can't just take those completely unchanged multitracks and mix them into 5.1 without any further EQ adjustment or compression?

surely you can!?

don't you just resist the urge to tinker with anything at any stage in the entire process?

which is what I presumed SW intimated when he said these new mixes were mastered flat..!?

 

[ssully]

Your comment got my thinking about why I wasn't hearing the low end - my speakers are at the least close to full range. A while back I set my Center to small because I was trying to see if vocals would be clearer. Based on what you said I switched it back to large and there was the low end on Tarkus that I had been missing. What really confuses me is that my subwoofer is actually louder with the Center set to large then it is when set to small. That seems backwards to me. Anyway I'm loving this disc now. Sorry about the 7 in the poll - it's a 10 now.

? There's no low bass -- virtually no bass instruments at all -- in the center channel of the Tarkus 5.1 mix, so I don't understand how this could happen. I would check all connections and settings, something's not right.

 

[leevitalone1]

My speakers are all full range but I sometimes have problems with the bass being too weak via my 6 discrete analogue outputs when playing certain DVD-A's and SACDs. My player gives me the option to output a DSD signal via my HDMI cable to my receiver which seems to be a better option for many discs in regards to getting a stronger signal to my sub woofer.

what is the crossover set at? is the bass management set correctly? with analog the player does that.

 

[rontoon]

what is the crossover set at? is the bass management set correctly? with analog the player does that.

I'm afraid that I'm going to have to educate myself on this before adequately answering your question but I do appreciate the helpful offer. Is the crossover set on the actual sub (my assumption) or on the receiver? I'm also assuming that the bass management is set on my receiver. I'll have to wait until I get home tonight to figure this out to answer your questions properly. I should also probably include all of my equipment in my profile as well, something that I'll eventually get around to doing. Thanks again!

 

[strat54]

My speakers are all full range but I sometimes have problems with the bass being too weak via my 6 discrete analogue outputs when playing certain DVD-A's and SACDs. My player gives me the option to output a DSD signal via my HDMI cable to my receiver which seems to be a better option for many discs in regards to getting a stronger signal to my sub woofer.

I had to boost the LFE on my Yamaha analog inputs +10dB to equal the bass I get from DTS or DD. Switch between DTS and analog Hi-res MCH and adjust the analog LFE accordingly.

 

[rontoon]

I had to boost the LFE on my Yamaha analog inputs +10dB to equal the bass I get from DTS or DD. Switch between DTS and analog Hi-res MCH and adjust the analog LFE accordingly.

I recently bought a brand new Yamaha receiver and it seems to me that when I use the Muliti-Channel setting option (which employs the 6 analogue inputs - as opposed to HDMI) it disables all other management settings. The only thing I can control is tweaking the knobs on the back of my sub, which I'm assuming is the cross over setting.

 

[ssully]

Depends on how the settings work. For example, in my family room system the surround receiver does not allow me to select speaker size by channel - it is either all small or all large (and directs bass to the LFE accordingly). On my main system, I can actually set the crossover point by individual speaker.

The OP indicated he was able to specifically set the Center loudspeaker to LARGE or SMALL . (Leaving aside what crossover setting is chosen for SMALL speakers).

If that's the case, changing the Center size really shouldn't have made much difference to bass output...because there is hardly any bass content in the center channel of the Tarkus 5.1 mix in the first place. It's mostly vocals, and often there's no content at all in that channel. I can post screencaps of the center channel demonstrating this, if you like.


If his system actually sets ALL of his speakers to LARGE or SMALL when he chooses a speaker size, then that would make a difference in the sound of the bass. The bass in Tarkus 5.1 is mostly mixed to the front L/R channels, and the LFE. So changing front L/R size would defintely affect what comes out of the sub.

 

[ssully]

I recently bought a brand new Yamaha receiver and it seems to me that when I use the Muliti-Channel setting option (which employs the 6 analogue inputs - as opposed to HDMI) it disables all other management settings.

Yes, because typically for the analog inputs to be bass managed, or otherwise processed, their input signals would have to be converted to digital first inside the AVR.

The only thing I can control is tweaking the knobs on the back of my sub, which I'm assuming is the cross over setting.

If your sub is only connected to the LFE channel output of your Yamaha, then tweaking those knobs on your sub only affects the signal entering the sub. It won't have any effect on what your other loudspeakers are outputting.

 

[ssully]

With the Pioneer 79avi, AFAIK there aren't a lot of settings to play with concerning bass management. You set the speakers to Large or Small and you are done. I put on Beatles Love and had the same experience: Center = Small = diminished LFE signal. Who knows; maybe a circuit is fried.

It will depend on *what is mixed into the center channel* by the mixing engineers. If there's bass mixed into the center channel (like on the BSS DVD-A, where the bass guitar is *only* in the center channel) then certainly, changing the size of the Center loudspeaker will make a huge difference to subwoofer output. But if there's no bass instruments in the center channel to begin with, sending that nonexistant bass to the subwoofer (by changing the C speaker size to SMALL) obviously won't make much of a difference to sub output. (And if you set your crossover too high, it might actually create a 'hole' in center channel output.)