Engineer delivering fake "Atmos" mixes with only stereo content

[austinsignal]

Yesterday I heard from a fellow audio engineer that a producer-engineer that we both know - quite well known in general - is unhappy with having labels requiring him to deliver Atmos mixes, so he’s delivering ADM’s that only have content in the L and R speakers - stereo. ‘Here’s your f_cking Atmos mix….’ Not sure it will fly w the labels or Apple, etc. But it’s indicative of the continuing fight in the engineering/production communities…

 

[fredblue]

Yesterday I heard from a fellow audio engineer that a producer-engineer that we both know - quite well known in general - is unhappy with having labels requiring him to deliver Atmos mixes, so he’s delivering ADM’s that only have content in the L and R speakers - stereo. ‘Here’s your f_cking Atmos mix….’ Not sure it will fly w the labels or Apple, etc. But it’s indicative of the continuing fight in the engineering/production communities…

what an unprofessional cockwomble
if i find one such mix i will report it to Apple straight away.

 

[AudiophileStyle]

Yesterday I heard from a fellow audio engineer that a producer-engineer that we both know - quite well known in general - is unhappy with having labels requiring him to deliver Atmos mixes, so he’s delivering ADM’s that only have content in the L and R speakers - stereo. ‘Here’s your f_cking Atmos mix….’ Not sure it will fly w the labels or Apple, etc. But it’s indicative of the continuing fight in the engineering/production communities…

Very similar to what happened in the late 1950s when the industry shifted from mono to stereo. The New York Times archives are full of great articles discussing the evils and unknowns of stereo, and the industry conspiracy to sell more components :~)

 

[coolerking101]

Yesterday I heard from a fellow audio engineer that a producer-engineer that we both know - quite well known in general - is unhappy with having labels requiring him to deliver Atmos mixes, so he’s delivering ADM’s that only have content in the L and R speakers - stereo. ‘Here’s your f_cking Atmos mix….’ Not sure it will fly w the labels or Apple, etc. But it’s indicative of the continuing fight in the engineering/production communities…

We know it won't fly with Apple (once they know about it), as the pulled all the fake ATMOS mixes once the folks on this site made them aware. Remember, Apple literally advertises spatial audio as a selling point. So they're invested in it.

 

[humprof]

Very similar to what happened in the late 1950s when the industry shifted from mono to stereo. The New York Times archives are full of great articles discussing the evils and unknowns of stereo, and the industry conspiracy to sell more components :~)

I'd like to know whether the engineer in question is being giving adequate time--and additional compensation--to create an Atmos mix in addition to the stereo mix. Without any more context, I would guess that the growing disgruntlement @austinsignal refers to stems from unreasonable workload demands, not opposition to Atmos per se. I remember even the bigwigs on the Zoom panels that many of watched a year or two ago complaining that labels were increasingly requiring mixing engineers to just "throw in" an Atmos mix on top of what they were normally contracted to do, or to crank out a high number of mixes in an unrealistically short period of time--which would inevitably lead to people taking shortcuts.

 

[ted_b]

I know for a fact ( I talked to one label and tried to dissuade) that at least one label is choosing to take their 5.1 mixes and converting them, unchanged, no new mix, to the Dolby Atmos deliverable to the streamers. They said the clicks are higher when it says Atmos !!

 

[PurpleMoustache]

I know for a fact ( I talked to one label and tried to dissuade) that at least one label is choosing to take their 5.1 mixes and converting them, unchanged, no new mix, to the Dolby Atmos deliverable to the streamers. They said the clicks are higher when it says Atmos !!

At least those are legit multichannel mixes… and we have precedence with Suzanne Ciani’s LIVE Quadraphonic and Jean Michel-Jarre’s OXYMORE. Atmos as a delivery system for other multichannel formats is valid in my eyes. Yeah its a shame it’s not using the sides and heights but it’s still leading people to multichannel.

It would be best if they uploaded them as Dolby Audio releases, but it seems like that effort has fizzled out

 

[perzon57]

At least those are legit multichannel mixes… and we have precedence with Suzanne Ciani’s LIVE Quadraphonic and Jean Michel-Jarre’s OXYMORE. Atmos as a delivery system for other multichannel formats is valid in my eyes. Yeah its a shame it’s not using the sides and heights but it’s still leading people to multichannel.

It would be best if they uploaded them as Dolby Audio releases, but it seems like that effort has fizzled out

Atmos as a delivery system for other multichannel formats are fraud in my eyes, if it ain't Atmos don't pretend it to be.

 

[mkt]

Almost all the RCO spatial audio releases (except for some of the most recent ones) seem to be 5.0
https://music.apple.com/us/artist/royal-concertgebouw-orchestra/820241

 

[Ephi82]

At least those are legit multichannel mixes… and we have precedence with Suzanne Ciani’s LIVE Quadraphonic and Jean Michel-Jarre’s OXYMORE. Atmos as a delivery system for other multichannel formats is valid in my eyes. Yeah its a shame it’s not using the sides and heights but it’s still leading people to multichannel.

It would be best if they uploaded them as Dolby Audio releases, but it seems like that effort has fizzled out

Wouldn’t it be great if they released all the legacy 5.1 mixes on streaming

 

[PurpleMoustache]

Wouldn’t it be great if they released all the legacy 5.1 mixes on streaming

Yes! There’s so many I don’t have. So many out of print, or going for $$$ used, etc. I’m fine taking a bitrate hit instead of paying $40 a pop for Tomita SACDs (to pick an example)

 

[HomerJAU]

I know for a fact ( I talked to one label and tried to dissuade) that at least one label is choosing to take their 5.1 mixes and converting them, unchanged, no new mix, to the Dolby Atmos deliverable to the streamers.

At least there will be music in the rears though!

 

[Stupy]

Atmos as a delivery system for other multichannel formats are fraud in my eyes, if it ain't Atmos don't pretend it to be.

Well... I'm thinking that we've had plenty of stuffing around with different formats, converting between them, hardware issues, software issues...

As a format, I think Atmos could be a way of circumventing a massive number of issues. The Atmos file could itself be any number of channels; if you are dealing with devices that sent/read/understand Atmos then does it matter?

I suppose I'm saying that if a standardised format like Atmos, with its lossy and lossless codecs, can become a standard for above two channels, this might be a very good thing. It could make the multichannel world eventually simpler and more accessible to a wider audience.

 

[perzon57]

Well... I'm thinking that we've had plenty of stuffing around with different formats, converting between them, hardware issues, software issues...

As a format, I think Atmos could be a way of circumventing a massive number of issues. The Atmos file could itself be any number of channels; if you are dealing with devices that sent/read/understand Atmos then does it matter?

I suppose I'm saying that if a standardised format like Atmos, with its lossy and lossless codecs, can become a standard for above two channels, this might be a very good thing. It could make the multichannel world eventually simpler and more accessible to a wider audience.

Well I don't want that, if I find some music in Atmos I want it to be just that, not 4.0 or 5.1. Unfortunately many Atmos releases lately both on AM and BD is nothing more than 5.1/7.1anyway, and that's even worse.

 

[admsh]

Well I don't want that, if I find some music in Atmos I want it to be just that, not 4.0 or 5.1. Unfortunately many Atmos releases lately both on AM and BD is nothing more than 5.1/7.1anyway, and that's even worse.

There's a huge advantage in one format that can deliver all the different configurations to any system that supports that one format. My only issue with that is that one needs to figure it out on their own, it would be much better if each release clearly stated how many channels, what original format etc. My Oppo kicked the bucket and I got a Sony BD player, and it's refusing to play certain quad titles (it's playing DTS fine, but not Dolby), for example. There are some titles on Apple Music that are not Atmos, like the David Gilmour releases, and I can imagine how this could get messed up for some people with certain equipment that won't be able to recognise it - either now or in the future.

In the end of the day the issue is clear labeling I suppose, not the format of delivery which everyone will probably agree is much easier with one standard.

 

[heavensolid98]

Yesterday I heard from a fellow audio engineer that a producer-engineer that we both know - quite well known in general - is unhappy with having labels requiring him to deliver Atmos mixes, so he’s delivering ADM’s that only have content in the L and R speakers - stereo. ‘Here’s your f_cking Atmos mix….’ Not sure it will fly w the labels or Apple, etc. But it’s indicative of the continuing fight in the engineering/production communities…

This is exactly what "Future" did (LR+LFE) and it was a featured album + featured on Made for Spatial Audio playlist so... Do Apple really care?

 

[DanRuben]

Well I don't want that, if I find some music in Atmos I want it to be just that, not 4.0 or 5.1. Unfortunately many Atmos releases lately both on AM and BD is nothing more than 5.1/7.1anyway, and that's even worse.

There's no "minimum" standard as to what comprises Atmos though. I've seen 2.0 binaural mixes with the Atmos logo. What should be the minimum? 7.1.4? 7.1.2? 5.1.2?

I have the Sonos Era 300s the first "Atmos enabled & dedicated to music" speakers as a pair and it's effectively a 6.0.2 channel system. Is that "true" Atmos?

Maybe the inclusion of 2 height channels could be a minimum requirement for Atmos?

 

[perzon57]

There's no "minimum" standard as to what comprises Atmos though. I've seen 2.0 binaural mixes with the Atmos logo. What should be the minimum? 7.1.4? 7.1.2? 5.1.2?

I have the Sonos Era 300s the first "Atmos enabled & dedicated to music" speakers as a pair and it's effectively a 6.0.2 channel system. Is that "true" Atmos?

Maybe the inclusion of 2 height channels could be a minimum requirement for Atmos?

Atmos mixes has to have output in the heights to be real Atmos to me on my 7.4.4 setup, in what way others choose to listen to Atmos mixes are not a concern for me.

 

[JediJoker]

There's no "minimum" standard as to what comprises Atmos though. I've seen 2.0 binaural mixes with the Atmos logo. What should be the minimum? 7.1.4? 7.1.2? 5.1.2?

If it has sound objects and/or height channels, it's Atmos. Pretty simple.

 

[harync]

There's no "minimum" standard as to what comprises Atmos though. I've seen 2.0 binaural mixes with the Atmos logo. What should be the minimum? 7.1.4? 7.1.2? 5.1.2?

I have the Sonos Era 300s the first "Atmos enabled & dedicated to music" speakers as a pair and it's effectively a 6.0.2 channel system. Is that "true" Atmos?

Maybe the inclusion of 2 height channels could be a minimum requirement for Atmos?

There is an Apple definition. “Dolby Audio” is 5.1 while “Dolby Atmos” places objects in a 3D space which implies height. Several 5.1 albums have been added to Apple Music as-is as “Dolby Audio” and that’s fine. Hopefully that’s what the posts above were referring to. If someone is taking a 5.1 mix and getting it labeled as “Dolby Atmos” without object/height information that is not right.