HiRez Poll Fagen, Donald - KAMAKIRIAD [DVD-A]

[Clint Eastwood]

Despite the fact that I've crapped on plenty of threads myself, this would normally be right around the time I drum my fingers on the table and think, "Can we get this thread back on track, please?" BUT: because it's devoted to what is indisputably the best album of Donald Fagen's solo career, I like the fact that it keeps popping up in "New Posts." (Jerking your chain, @IanProudfoot -- although I really do believe that. And I am a little steamed that the original thread disappeared, because I can't remember whatever I wrote back when I first voted.)

I'll just say I wish we could do without numerical polls altogether. The individual ratings aren't meaningless--as long as each reviewer explains what their numbers mean--but the rankings are. Few of us are even using the same rubric to begin with (3+3+3+1? 6 = D and 10 = A? 10-point impressionist scale?), and even those who think they're using the same rubric probably aren't interpreting it the same way. (I used to read college AP and SAT essays for extra money, and I'm not proud of that, but I know you can't have a set of readers who haven't been "normed.")

Of course, there's also the question of whether we should even grade legacy formats and modern hi-res formats using the same scale. Or whether, on a site like this, content should count as much as mix and fidelity. Or whether "packaging" includes things like price and value. Etc.

So that's why I'm with @steelydave on this one. I find the polls useful to the extent that, when I'm interested in a title, I can search the polls for that title and see what people have written about it. I don't care if Ian gave it a 6 or 10 or a 2, as long as he explains why.* But I doubt my 10 means the same as his or anyone else's.

(*Hypocrite that I am, I don't consistently explain my own scores.)

I solved the problem of the numerical polls...I stopped voting on the polls...I have a core group of members who I feel mirror my musical tastes and use their decisions to help me decide if a new release is something I might want to purchase...

 

[Clint Eastwood]

I follow the teachings of the great JonUrban regarding the meaning of the poll scores as given in this post: About the HiRez Poll Section - 2018 (PLEASE READ).

It appears packaging was a part of the "formula" but I remember reading posts from some of the distinguished members of the past(who aren't here anymore)and never seeing anything about "packaging"...however please read Jon's post below the one you quoted...it's a GUIDELINE...not cut in stone... and I have never felt that content was only 30% of significance regarding a title...CONTENT is king...all these other metrics are meaningless if you don't like the music..if we were just grading the mix and fidelity...we could just have a title with just electric tones on it with a series of waveforms...if people just give honest feedback and keep in mind that subjectivity is involved in music and how it affects each person...things would be fine...

When I was active on the polls...my personal scale was anything from 7 to 10 was purchase material....that didn't rule out something below that as a purchase...I just wanted to know why someone would vote lower that 7...once that reason was revealed... I could then determine if their complaints were relevant to me..and I would also look for "clusters"of votes...mainly in that 7 to 10 bracket...if a title had scores all over the map...that usually indicated a problem for me...so I would consult my "core" group of posters to see what they thought about the title...your 6 wasn't a big deal to me...I do get my feathers ruffled a bit when I see an isolated 4 or below with NO EXPLANATION...and there are some "drive by" members who post very low scores on some titles...I call them that because they never give any explanation and I don't ever see them on threads...they just show up and post a low number and they disappear into cyber space...

There is one interesting thing you brought up...and I don't know what the right approach should be...what if you just hate the content...it's true we don't want just people that love the content voting....but should someone that has extreme bias toward a title vote?...I found myself in that position once on a title that many on here loved...and since I happen to get my title early(box set)...many wanted me to comment on it...and to make matters worse for ME...it was a Steven Wilson masterpiece...it was the debut album of Roxy Music...so the quality was there...so I opted to not to vote on the polls and explained my decision in a thread about the title....I just felt I couldn't get over my distaste for the content...and I had loved other Roxy titles...it wasn't like I knew in advance that I wouldn't like it...so I felt that was the right decision...I opted to voice my dislikes in a thread...not the poll thread...

I lurked on this forum for several years before I joined...part of the reason I hesitated was there were a lot of progressive music fans on here and I was a rocker...but the polls were very helpful when I first started collecting discs as I came from the video world...so polls do have value...especially for the newbies who need help in starting a collection and I got lots of help from established members...like fredblue...

In your case... I would suggest you view the responses directed toward you as just passionate music fans expressing their feelings...not bully tactics..and I think you will benefit by the explanations you have given...you have represented your views well and I respect your reasons...so the next time I see your vote I know that there were reasons behind your actions...you have credibility in my eyes...even though I might not agree with you...

 

[Sal1950]

I follow the teachings of the great JonUrban regarding the meaning of the poll scores as given in this post: About the HiRez Poll Section - 2018 (PLEASE READ).

Ah So, a simple case of RTFM Sal, Thanks. LOL

 

[Sal1950]

.if people just give honest feedback and keep in mind that subjectivity is involved in music and how it affects each person...things would be fine...

I try to always avoid "subjectivity" whenever possible, it's controlled by expectation bias.

 

[IanProudfoot]

... and I have never felt that content was only 30% of significance regarding a title...CONTENT is king...all these other metrics are meaningless if you don't like the music.

This is the big deal for me. It's all about the music. I'm passionate about music and a superb album that's only available in two-channel stereo will always win over the excellent surround mix and perfect sound quality of a musically inferior* offering.

*Warning: Subjective opinion alert!!!

 

[scottm18]

It sounds great to test your surround system with (TAS/Snowbound), but leaves me cold musically compared to masterpieces like the Nightfly and most of the SD releases. My personal enjoyment of his albums drop dramatically after Nightfly, which is still one of my all-time favorite albums... and by the time the (RIP) Nichol-less Sunken Condos arrived they even suffered on the audio front.

 

[Chacho Peniche]

Love the music, the mix and the sound of the original realese in stereo, and the DVDA was one of my first ever.... really blow my mind and it’s responsable of recover my addiction to MCH music

 

[Scottie-boy]

I paid a premium for this long ago - hearing about how great this mix was. I had always loved Steely Dan, but hadn't really given Fagan's solo stuff a shot. I have to say - this is my favorite. Great music - and unbelievable mix. Awesome. 10

 

[humprof]

Veteran music journalist Wayne Robins (Village Voice, Newsday, Creem) on Kamakiriad. Tip o' the hat to the Dandom FB group.
https://waynerobins49.substack.com/p/on-donald-fagens-kamakiriad

 

[kap'n krunch]

This is my hands down favorite of his , including SD stuff...the concept, the grooves and on top of that A SURROUND MIX that is mouthwatering!!!
I always play this when on the road...I played it last week on our Ireland holiday...marvellous!!!!

I love finding these nuggets...totally had forgotten playing this on my 50th bday trip to Eire...while driving on the wrong side of the road in a STICK shift car, I guess I helped the road conservation crews cause I definitely trimmed all the vegetation on the left ledges...
as I said, I bought this CD when it came out in 93 and played it to DEATH! I even found some different things in the mix on a later CD reissue.. I never get tired of this, I think it's THAT awesome...it's like me watching "The Fifth Element" for the 60th time, I ALWAYS find something new...

 

[humprof]

Ribbing cutting on the Trans-Island Skyway was 30 years ago (May 25, 1993). Anniversary party at the Flytown Teahouse. C'mon Daddy: get in, let's go!

 

[kap'n krunch]

Ribbing cutting on the Trans-Island Skyway was 30 years ago (May 25, 1993). Anniversary party at the Flytown Teahouse. C'mon Daddy: get in, let's go!

View attachment 91816

Since I am NOT sugestionable, I am playing it RIGHT NOW!!! it's not like I have heard this SEVERAL HUNDRED TIMES...first on CD and then on MCH

 

[humprof]

I was reading an interview with Fagen that was done just as he was getting ready to go out on the Morph the Cat tour, and he talked about giving Scheiner carte blanche to completely reconceive Kamakiriad when he remixed it for the DVD-A. (Among other things, Fagen was that by that point feeling more confident about his vocals, which he had deliberately buried on the 1993 stereo mix). Me, I'm feeling hyperbolic tonight, so I'm just gonna come right out and say that "Trans-Island Skyway" is the best thing Scheiner has ever done. All these years I've been so busy delighting in that opening-bars melodica murmuring into my ear from the left surround that I completely missed the round-the-horn finger-snaps just after.

 

[JediJoker]

Finally got around to album #2 in my Donald Fagen adventure after a two month break.

This one grabbed me more immediately. In comparison to The Nightfly, it's happier, snappier, and toe-tappier. Being a decade removed, Kamakiriad is the clear product of an older, more mature Fagen. That's not to say that what came before was immature—after all, Steely Dan had been making sophisticated, truly grown-up music since The Royal Scam—but the music here is befitting of an artist in his mid-40s. Aside from "On The Dunes," it has more in common with the Steely Dan albums to follow than the solo album preceding it. Considering Walter Becker served as producer, I suppose that makes perfect sense.

As expected, Elliot Scheiner's surround mix is excellent. Of course, it helps that the original recording was engineered by Roger Nichols, but Scheiner takes it to the next level. Everything seems to be in its right place, with no element calling undue attention to itself (aside from the circling snaps at the beginning of "Trans-Island Skyway;" a fun touch). The music videos are fun (Rick Moranis?!), though unlike the "New Frontier" video, I don't feel they add any narrative value. Nevertheless, "Snowbound's" video is quite the elaborate animated/composited production! That must've cost a fortune to make in '93. The EPK mini-documentary is fine, though I wish it were a full 30- to 60-minute feature.

CONTENT: 3
MIX: 3
FIDELITY: 3
PACKAGING: 1

TOTAL: 10

 

[scottm18]

Finally got around to album #2 in my Donald Fagen adventure after a two month break.

This one grabbed me more immediately. In comparison to The Nightfly, it's happier, snappier, and toe-tappier. Being a decade removed, Kamakiriad is the clear product of an older, more mature Fagen. That's not to say that what came before was immature—after all, Steely Dan had been making sophisticated, truly grown-up music since The Royal Scam—but the music here is befitting of an artist in his mid-40s. Aside from "On The Dunes," it has more in common with the Steely Dan albums to follow than the solo album preceding it. Considering Walter Becker served as producer, I suppose that makes perfect sense.

As expected, Elliot Scheiner's surround mix is excellent. Of course, it helps that the original recording was engineered by Roger Nichols, but Scheiner takes it to the next level. Everything seems to be in its right place, with no element calling undue attention to itself (aside from the circling snaps at the beginning of "Trans-Island Skyway;" a fun touch). The music videos are fun (Rick Moranis?!), though unlike the "New Frontier" video, I don't feel they add any narrative value. Nevertheless, "Snowbound's" video is quite the elaborate animated/composited production! That must've cost a fortune to make in '93. The EPK mini-documentary is fine, though I wish it were a full 30- to 60-minute feature.

CONTENT: 3
MIX: 3
FIDELITY: 3
PACKAGING: 1

TOTAL: 10

 

[scottm18]

Fagan's second solo album is definitely a better recording, (the nice loooow bass of "Snowbound" really impresses)... but the overall tunes of Nightfly I feel are far superior IMHO. No doubt the second is more of a reference showcase though. The third I feel isn't as good a recording (and not nearly the tunes) and the fourth "Condos" sadly now without the passed-on Nichols suffers accordingly.