Finally Got CD-4 Working!

[edisonbaggins]

Marantz 6150
Technics SA-8000X
Pickering XUV/D4500-Q

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Marantz 6150
Technics SA-8000X
Pickering XUV/D4500-Q

Well being fairly new with trying to get CD-4 up and running also in the last couple of years I'll certainly chime in here.
I'll be checking out (burn testing) my 4th demodulator today a Panasonic SE-405.

Thrilled to see that you've got yours up and working, as you alluded to in your video, those out there that are old hands at this or newbies that say it' no big deal to get this ~50 year old gear working properly - "ARE JUST PLAIN LUCKY"

Anyway, keep us up to date on any pleasant discoveries or issues; and I'll be wanting to hear what some of your favorite CD-4's are, going forward!

The Mutt

 

[edisonbaggins]

Yeah, I've found a big key, to the whole thing, is simply locating a working demod.
You can do EVERYTHING else right and the whole thing will fail without it. AND it's tough to troubleshoot whether you found a good one, as your issues could lie somewhere in the other dozen things you have to get right (working cart/needle, proper adjustments, good copy of a record, etc.)

 

[sjcorne]

...your issues could lie somewhere in the other dozen things you have to get right (working cart/needle, proper adjustments, good copy of a record, etc.)

Condition of the LP cannot be overstated. For some of the WEA titles (Joni Mitchell, Eagles, Deep Purple, etc), I'm not sure any good-sounding copies actually exist...

 

[kfbkfb]

My ~$50 (1982) CD-4 turntable still works, but the stylus overhang adjustment diagram in the manual isn't very helpful, I may buy a proper CD-4 cart and continue to use it with my SH-400 demod.

I was wondering if your Marantz 6150 turntable/tonearm was easy to adjust to get the stylus overhang setting so that CD-4 works (I use a stylus overhang gauge from a 1992 magazine which allowed my non-CD-4 cart to sort of work for CD-4)?


Kirk Bayne

 

[edisonbaggins]

Hey, Pup.
If your struggles continue, I can drop off my receiver and some known good records, at some point.
That would, at least, allow you to rule everything else out.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Hey, Pup.
If your struggles continue, I can drop off my receiver and some known good records, at some point.
That would, at least, allow you to rule everything else out.

Actually I believe I'm good at this point, I've ruled everything else out after getting this (new to me) Panasonic SE-405. I really believe some of my issues may be with my home power; maybe some kind of grounding issue, but I just don't get any hum with newer gear like the Surround Master on the same power lines. I may need to call in a electrician to diagnose and nail down the problem.

Back now to CD-4 test LPs, I also have 2 or 3 different ones I plan on locating today and I'll post their discogs page here for others. I know some are better than others, and IINM it was @Doug G. that mentioned somewhere that one of those LPs has some incorrect tests on it?

The way I figure, the more we discuss CD-4 "fun" LOL we're having and solving problems for others here, we'll drive those CD-4 prices up with new users and it may make a small comeback like a CD-4 board in an upcoming Involve Master Pre-amp

 

[edisonbaggins]

Glad things are mostly working!
It's possible that matching the right test LP (in serviceable condition) to your gear will put you over the top.
None of my test records are completely effective with the Technics SA-8000X. At least no track that I've discovered.
I had to rely on the @fredblue method of throwing on recordings that others know well, and have described what should be audible when the separation is set appropriately.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Glad things are mostly working!
It's possible that matching the right test LP (in serviceable condition) to your gear will put you over the top.
None of my test records are completely effective with the Technics SA-8000X. At least no track that I've discovered.
I had to rely on the @fredblue method of throwing on recordings that others know well, and have described what should be audible when the separation is set appropriately.

Have you got your new receiver/set-up totally dialed in yet?

Be sure to let us know any great surroundy CD-4's you discover also!

 

[edisonbaggins]

Have you got your new receiver/set-up totally dialed in yet?

I'm not comfortable making that claim. I'm hearing what I expect to hear, based on the tribal knowledge found here.
I ought to track down the test LP for the Technics. Sealed.

On that point, lmk what records you have in mind, in case I have a sealed copy.

 

[quadsearcher]

Context is everything. Most often when I see something about CD-4 rules, in is in reference to attempts made using cartridges that are not proven to be CD-4 capable.
It is not bad information.
This is supposed to be fun. I'm always happy to hear of someone who gets a system working!
I should share more of my own experiences with it. I had a 4DD5 that wasn't as good as my Marantz, did a complete recap, but no change in performance. However, I was using a AT440mla and a linear tracker. Next time I'll try to get closer to proven components such as the Pickering mentioned.
I appreciate all posts, all posts are helpful.

I too am wondering how the cartridge alignment was done on the 6150.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

I'm not comfortable making that claim. I'm hearing what I expect to hear, based on the tribal knowledge found here.
I ought to track down the test LP for the Technics. Sealed.

On that point, lmk what records you have in mind, in case I have a sealed copy.

Also, was there some posts from Freddie's method that you could link to here, I remember seeing something like that but forget where I saw it (or it could have been a PM IDK.) I've got a pretty good stack of CD-4's myself now, so probably have some that would work with research.

 

[sjcorne]

Also, was there some posts from Freddie's method that you could link to here, I remember seeing something like that but forget where I saw it (or it could have been a PM IDK.) I've got a pretty good stack of CD-4's myself now, so probably have some that would work with research.

I think his method was to listen to a song where you know there's supposed to be zero lead vocal in the rear (Carly Simon's "You're So Vain", for example), solo the rears and then tweak the seperation controls to get that vocal crosstalk as low as possible.

 

[edisonbaggins]

One of Adam's posts:

Post in thread 'CD-4 - The thin line between success and failure, but still in the fight!' CD-4 - The thin line between success and failure, but still in the fight!

 

[edisonbaggins]

@J. PUPSTER just checking that you're using a power line conditioner. If not, I recommend it.
It can eliminate buzz, if the buzz is caused from certain sources.
I've heard particular sorts of lighting defeat this method, but a line conditioner is still a good idea.
If lights are the issue you can try different bulbs and/or ballasts.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

@J. PUPSTER just checking that you're using a power line conditioner. If not, I recommend it.
It can eliminate buzz, if the buzz is caused from certain sources.
I've heard particular sorts of lighting defeat this method, but a line conditioner is still a good idea.
If lights are the issue you can try different bulbs and/or ballasts.

I've tried turning all the lighting and phones & Routers/Extenders off etc. and it made no difference. I just hope it's not some kind of strong Radio signals.

Do you have a power conditioner you like? I've tried a little in-line ground loop type and that didn't help either.

What I really need to finish up (yeah I'm slow as mud these days) is getting my Emotiva UMC-200 (thanks for the idea BTW) and my Involve Amp Master hooked up to play this stuff through. My reconditioned Sansui QRX-8001 worked great for a while and I even demodulated well through it also; but it has now developed its own hum issue (yeah the "old gear" bug bites again, seems to be a common theme!) And you know the issues with that. One thing I did finally figure out with my new Involve Amp Master is that the speaker connectors they use, tighten backwards - instead of Righty-Tighty, they tighten Lefty-Loosey (I've heard their toilets spiral the flush in the wrong direction down there also )

 

[kfbkfb]

https://worldradiohistory.com/Archi...idelity/70s/High-Fidelity-1974-04.pdf#page=74^^^
4DE-202 (faulty)...JVC remastered it (4DE-205)


Right channel setup sounds are wrong on the 4DE-202 CD-4 alignment disc.


Kirk Bayne

 

[J. PUPSTER]

https://worldradiohistory.com/Archi...idelity/70s/High-Fidelity-1974-04.pdf#page=74^^^
4DE-202 (faulty)...JVC remastered it (4DE-205)


Right channel setup sounds are wrong on the 4DE-202 CD-4 alignment disc.


Kirk Bayne

So this 45 RPM one is right then Kirk?

https://www.discogs.com/release/1874338-CD-4-CD-4-Adjustment-Record

 

[edisonbaggins]

I'm using these and happy with them, Pup. Doesn't mean they're the end-all, be-all.
I'm vaguely aware that there are different types, with different features.
Trying one could be worth a shot? If it doesn't kill the noise you're experiencing, maybe a more sophisticated type could be found.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M8x2--furman-m-8x2-power-conditioner

 

[J. PUPSTER]

OK, here's some of the test LPs I've got-

https://www.discogs.com/release/445...Present-CD-4-Channel-Demonstration-Quadradisc
https://www.discogs.com/release/3171839-Various-The-Fisher-Test-Performance-Standard-Quadradisc
https://www.discogs.com/release/154...-4-Quadradisc-4-Channel-2-Channel-Test-Record
and just for GP (Includes alignment protractor)-

https://www.discogs.com/release/3212139-No-Artist-Analogue-Test-LP