DVD/DTS Poll Fleetwood Mac - FLEETWOOD MAC [DD DVD]

[skherbeck]

This is a great surround disc. The mix is excellent; enveloping and discrete. The music is timeless. And the fidelity is really good! (I made a comment elsewhere that I thought there was a problem with the way this disc sounds... turns out I had some settings in foobar messed up) There are a couple places where I wonder if it might sound better in a higher-rez format (specifically the cymbals on "World Turning" and "Over My Head"), but honestly the slight harshness I'm hearing is fine (I hear worse on most of my CDs). My only minor gripes were easily fixed in Audacity: Stevie's speaking at the beginning of "Rhianon" and the "endless fade-out" on "World Turning". I'm giving this a 9.

When I sit back and listen to all my Fleetwood Mac surround tunes played randomly, I feel so lucky... Fleetwood Mac, Rumours, Tusk, Mirage, The Dance, and Say You Will (with some rear channel adjustments) are a phenomenal group of albums with wonderful surround mixes.

I'll keep hoping for "Tango" and Lindsey's "Out Of The Cradle" (but I won't hold my breath... that would likely be fatal)

 

[elmer]

I thought about dinging this one point for being Dolby but this is such a great album! The surround mix does exactly what a good surround mix should do - reveal something new while staying true to the original. Can't help it, a 10!

 

[perzon57]

Got my set from amazon.uk onMonday.Have played it twice.Had forgotten how good this record is I really like the mix , it sounds real good to me.

 

[sjcorne]

Ok- I’ve lived with this for a while, taken it apart on the PC (see some of my other posts in the pre-release thread), played it for friends, etc. Here it comes…

This one was on my most-wanted list of unreleased surround mixes for a long time.

There’s a lot to take in with this release: a long-lost mix of a great album finally set free, yet presented in what may be the most unfavorable way possible. Box set, lossy dvd, loud mastering, you name it. It’s ultimately up to the buyer to decide if these factors are deal-breakers or not.

The Content: I doubt anyone reading this thread needs to be sold on this. A truly legendary album. Each of the group’s three respective singer-songwriters contribute some of their best work: Lindsey Buckingham provides the more upbeat/rock numbers (“Monday Morning”, “Blue Letter”, and the haunting “I’m So Afraid”), Stevie Nicks owns the mystical realm (“Rhiannon”, “Landslide”), and some of Christine McVie’s best songs fall somewhere in between those extremes (“Over My Head”, “Say You Love Me”).

The Mix: This is a 10+ year old 5.1 mix and it shows in some of the mixing decisions. Those who have become accustomed to SW’s trademark use of the center for vocals and rears for backing vocals might be a bit thrown-off. But if you’ve heard the other classic FM 5.1’s, you probably know what to expect.

Ken Caillat’s approach to 5.1 is a bit eclectic compared to other engineers: he seems to take a unique approach for each song and generally uses side-wall placements more than panning instruments/vocals only in the fronts or rears, so at times the effect is sort of akin to wearing giant headphones. The vocals are usually everywhere but louder in the two fronts. Some tracks fully utilize the center, yet on others it's almost nonexistent. He is also prone to including elements not used in the original stereo- so these remixes sound more like a total reimagining of the source material rather than a very true-to-the-original surround retrofit. It could also be argued he overdoes it with the reverb on certain cuts. Rumours and Tusk follow this same mixing pattern.

I would say the most discrete tracks are "Blue Letter" and "Say You Love Me", both of which feature guitar tracks prominently in the rears. "Rhiannon" could've been done a little bit better IMO.

I really dig the mix on "I'm So Afraid"- that buried Stevie harmony really pops out of the center, the harmonizing guitar overdubs are split up, and the drums have this very 3-D reverbiness to them. If you're standing in the sweet spot they sound like they're mostly coming out of the rears.

I still think Mirage is the best mixed of all these FM 5.1's- which I suppose makes sense because it was done years later. On that mix you’ll find the vocals exclusively placed in the fronts, which makes the soundfield a bit wider-sounding. Unfortunately, the content on that one just doesn’t stand up to the other three IMO.

I’ll give it a 9. I’m not docking that point for the DD or mastering or box (seriously- it sounds just fine). It’s just that there are some mixing decisions I don’t fully agree with. But I sure am glad it's finally here.

 

[humprof]

Ok- I’ve lived with this for a while, taken it apart on the PC (see some of my other posts in the pre-release thread), played it for friends, etc. Here it comes…

This one was on my most-wanted list of unreleased surround mixes for a long time.

There’s a lot to take in with this release: a long-lost mix of a great album finally set free, yet presented in what may be the most unfavorable way possible. Box set, lossy dvd, loud mastering, you name it. It’s ultimately up to the buyer to decide if these factors are deal-breakers or not.

The Content: I doubt anyone reading this thread needs to be sold on this. A truly legendary album. Each of the group’s three respective singer-songwriters contribute some of their best work: Lindsey Buckingham provides the more upbeat/rock numbers (“Monday Morning”, “Blue Letter”, and the haunting “I’m So Afraid”), Stevie Nicks owns the mystical realm (“Rhiannon”, “Landslide”), and some of Christine McVie’s best songs fall somewhere in between those extremes (“Over My Head”, “Say You Love Me”).

The Mix: This is a 10+ year old 5.1 mix and it shows in some of the mixing decisions. Those who have become accustomed to SW’s trademark use of the center for vocals and rears for backing vocals might be a bit thrown-off. But if you’ve heard the other classic FM 5.1’s, you probably know what to expect.

Ken Caillat’s approach to 5.1 is a bit eclectic compared to other engineers: he seems to take a unique approach for each song and generally uses side-wall placements more than panning instruments/vocals only in the fronts or rears, so at times the effect is sort of akin to wearing giant headphones. The vocals are usually everywhere but louder in the two fronts. Some tracks fully utilize the center, yet on others it's almost nonexistent. He is also prone to including elements not used in the original stereo- so these remixes sound more like a total reimagining of the source material rather than a very true-to-the-original surround retrofit. It could also be argued he overdoes it with the reverb on certain cuts. Rumours and Tusk follow this same mixing pattern.

I would say the most discrete tracks are "Blue Letter" and "Say You Love Me", both of which feature guitar tracks prominently in the rears. "Rhiannon" could've been done a little bit better IMO.

I really dig the mix on "I'm So Afraid"- that buried Stevie harmony really pops out of the center, the harmonizing guitar overdubs are split up, and the drums have this very 3-D reverbiness to them. If you're standing in the sweet spot they sound like they're mostly coming out of the rears.

I still think Mirage is the best mixed of all these FM 5.1's- which I suppose makes sense because it was done years later. On that mix you’ll find the vocals exclusively placed in the fronts, which makes the soundfield a bit wider-sounding. Unfortunately, the content on that one just doesn’t stand up to the other three IMO.

I’ll give it a 9. I’m not docking that point for the DD or mastering or box (seriously- it sounds just fine). It’s just that there are some mixing decisions I don’t fully agree with. But I sure am glad it's finally here.

FM was one of those "classic rock" bands I just never could warm up to back in the day--and still can't (except maybe for the early, Peter Green-era stuff). But I really appreciate reading a smart, articulate, careful review from someone who's listened to these albums with fresh ears...and without all my baggage!

 

[Mesozoic Mike]

I voted a 9 for this release. Despite being DD, I thought it sounded great. Sure wish the 5.1 was available by itself, but it is a really nice package for a truly classic album. I'll be listening to this one often in the future.

 

[jkoolpe]

Hey all!

I received my copy yesterday and of course immediately popped in the 5.1. mix.

I enjoyed it a lot...very creative certainly. Upon my initial listening, I'm very happy! Of note (to me at least) was Stevie's spoken line before Rhiannon which was unexpected and a bit chilling (which is actually really cool to set up the pseudo-"Wiccan" nature of the song ) . Also like the way the mix combined the best of the single and the album versions of the song (IMHO). The mixes on "Sugar Daddy" and "Crystal" are also particularly awesome...for the latter, it sounds like Lindsey is right there in my living room!

But I do have one item to report that was not good:

For the 5.1 mix of the last song on the album (I'm So Afraid), the song cuts out and reverts to the main menu about 2/3 of the way through the song's ending/fade out .

I played it through a few times, and this happened each time! It's really annoying...and certainly for the price I paid for the set, I want it to be as perfect as possible.

Does anyone else out there have this problem? Do I need to contact the manufacturer to request a replacement disc and if so, how do I do this?

I guess post if you have this problem (or not).

Jon

 

[GOS]

Hey all!

I received my copy yesterday and of course immediately popped in the 5.1. mix.

I enjoyed it a lot...very creative certainly. Upon my initial listening, I'm very happy! Of note (to me at least) was Stevie's spoken line before Rhiannon which was unexpected and a bit chilling (which is actually really cool to set up the pseudo-"Wiccan" nature of the song ) . Also like the way the mix combined the best of the single and the album versions of the song (IMHO). The mixes on "Sugar Daddy" and "Crystal" are also particularly awesome...for the latter, it sounds like Lindsey is right there in my living room!

But I do have one item to report that was not good:

For the 5.1 mix of the last song on the album (I'm So Afraid), the song cuts out and reverts to the main menu about 2/3 of the way through the song's ending/fade out .

I played it through a few times, and this happened each time! It's really annoying...and certainly for the price I paid for the set, I want it to be as perfect as possible.

Does anyone else out there have this problem? Do I need to contact the manufacturer to request a replacement disc and if so, how do I do this?

I guess post if you have this problem (or not).

Jon

My song is 4:28 and it goes to the end. I don't know what the original sounds exactly like, so not sure if 4:28 is correct according to what you expected.

 

[svengaleekie]

I do have one item to report that was not good:

For the 5.1 mix of the last song on the album (I'm So Afraid), the song cuts out and reverts to the main menu about 2/3 of the way through the song's ending/fade out .

I played it through a few times, and this happened each time! It's really annoying...and certainly for the price I paid for the set, I want it to be as perfect as possible.

Does anyone else out there have this problem? Do I need to contact the manufacturer to request a replacement disc and if so, how do I do this?

I guess post if you have this problem (or not).

Jon

Ok Jon I just whipped my copy into my OPPO and played the offending track (I'm so Afraid) and I can report that the oppo says it is 4:27 long and it faded out at around 4:15 and went right to the 4:27 mark before going to main menu, I hope this helps, it seems like there may be a problem with your disc or player, but which?

 

[jkoolpe]

Thanks guys.

I do have other players that I can test it in...I'm currently using a Samsung player (I forget the model number...it's a 4K player I picked up about a year ago), but I also have 3 other players that I can try (Denon, Panasonic, and Pioneer). Only the Panasonic is blu-ray, but I think this disc is just a regular DVD, yes?

I'm at work right now so I can check later tonight if I have some time.

Jon

 

[marpow]

Full disclosure: This is my favorite Fleetwood Mac album by a large margin, and this surround sound mix only reinforces my feelings, so I am biased.

I agree with Bishop that the Dolby Digital is done extremely well and does not negatively impact the sonics. There is none of that "gravel/grizzle" that seems to be prevalent on most DD discs. If you asked me what I thought about the fidelity of the 5.1 layer without revealing the codec I'd reply, "It sounds great. No way I'm leaving the building without a copy of that disc!" And since we don't have the 5.1 layer in hi-res for comparison we'll never know.

Right from the first few bars of Monday Morning I knew this 5.1 was going to be special. The whole 5.1 album has more impact (balls) than the hi-res stereo version (which is excellent by the way) without too much compression to give me an earache like 5.1 Sgt Pepper. The surround mix is excellent throughout and there is way more detail than with the stereo mix. It's one of those 5.1 mixes that I love with lots of presence so that the band sounds as if it's right in the room.

Some other details:

Rhiannon - As noted by another member, the background vocals are indeed recessed. It's a tad annoying but compensated by more emphasis on Buckinham's excellent guitar work.

Say You Love Me - The 5.1 mix is closer to the single version with more guitar flourishes in the early parts of the song. But the whole cut has much better sonics than the single version and is on par with the rest of the album.

World Turning - This song is much more interesting in 5.1 than it ever was in stereo. But the coda is about 2 minutes longer than the stereo version and drags on and on with an incessant fade out.

Other songs have minor differences with the stereo mix; but the 5.1 is now the gold standard in my household. I give this one a 10 because of the quality of the songs, the musicianship, the 5.1 mix, the overall impact and presentation, and the way the engineers have somehow overcome the sonic limitations of the DD codec.

AR, this is a great review, thank you. Really informative and great thought was put forward. I like to do reviews and I like to read reviews, and this was a pleasure.

 

[Snood]

Oooooooooooooook Kkkkkkkkkkkkkk here we go

Snood love this frommmmmmmmmmmmm way back.........so a lot of subtleties might shine thru....THEY DID!!!!!

Most were like holy crap Snood never noticed that before kinda thing and loved it........

Alllll songs 1- 10 were pretty much awesome in the 5.1 mix and sometimes seemed like Lindsey was doing the mix with all the guitar parts showing up :yikes

But track 11

Snood all time favorite track of Fleetwood Mac EVVVVVER.................I'm So Afraid

Weird kinda awesome things Snood noticed on this song (wish never did).........Stevie Nicks backing/Support vocals are more prominent, more shwwooosh environment effects all around........

BUT A FREAKING TOTAL LOSS OF LINDSEY'S GUITAR AND LEAD GUITAR IN THIS SONG!!!!!

SNOOD WENT BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN STEREO AND MULTI MANY TIME..........WTF!!!!!!!

God Damn it - i was thru track 10 think wow, even at DD and a prob with volume only track 2.......this is gonna be awesome and can not wait until Im So Afraid.............

Shit!!!! Worst song on the mix - bringing me down form what might of been a 10 prob a 9 down to a 6 or 7 based on this shit mix of Im So Afraid..........can anyone verify this mix of this song sux total ass!

Get that they might have been going for a more of some other effect...........but all the rest of the album is awesome............until OMG me fave song.........which sounds like shit!!!!!!


Sorrrrrrrrrrry to base this on one song, but to Snood it a Major thing.......... was so impressed on all the other songs except Warm Ways maybe which to me thought was a lil toooooo shrill iccky for me speakers on high

But I'm So Afraid was a massacre mix! :yikes

Please everybody let me know if I am hearing things compared to the stereo?

 

[sjcorne]

God Damn it - i was thru track 10 think wow, even at DD and a prob with volume only track 2.......this is gonna be awesome and can not wait until Im So Afraid.............

Shit!!!! Worst song on the mix - bringing me down form what might of been a 10 prob a 9 down to a 6 or 7 based on this shit mix of Im So Afraid..........can anyone verify this mix of this song sux total ass!

Get that they might have been going for a more of some other effect...........but all the rest of the album is awesome............until OMG me fave song.........which sounds like shit!!!!!!

Interesting...personally I thought that track was handled just fine (though it is really really loud-looking). But I don't have the history/experience with the album or that particular track like you do.

I didn't perceive any lack of guitar- maybe dividing up all the overdubs made it seem less cohesive? I'll happily look into this as I trust your judgement when it comes to the Mac.

FWIW I actually like the live version from "The Dance" more than the studio cut. Lindsey's extended solo is just mesmerizing on that version.

 

[Snood]

Interesting...personally I thought that track was handled just fine (though it is really really loud-looking). But I don't have the history/experience with the album or that particular track like you do.

I didn't perceive any lack of guitar- maybe dividing up all the overdubs made it seem less cohesive? I'll happily look into this as I trust your judgement when it comes to the Mac.

FWIW I actually like the live version from "The Dance" more than the studio cut. Lindsey's extended solo is just mesmerizing on that version.

Thank you SJ - but please check out the stereo mix.......then try the surround

first jarring thing was how much i could hear stevie nicks backing vocals and also the whooshiy sound effects (which were koo but seem to take away from LINDSEY)

But compare the ending stereo lead guitar to the surround lead guitar and me thinx one might go WTF happen to me song!?

The rest of the album was awesome and maybe a couple songs were a lil differnt but nothing like Im so Afraid.........grrrrrrr - right now Snood at a 6 or 7 based on one song and would hate to do that just on one song, but it me alll time fave

Oh wil mention Snood had detailed song by song reviews.....and was thinking this was a 9 up until IM SO AFRAID.........was thinking ummm this might be even more awesome.....but then u give me a 4 on me fave song ever................:howl:howl:howl:howl:howl:howl:howl:howl:howl:howl:howl:howl:howl

 

[sjcorne]

Thank you SJ - but please check out the stereo mix.......then try the surround

first jarring thing was how much i could hear stevie nicks backing vocals and also the whooshiy sound effects (which were koo but seem to take away from LINDSEY)

But compare the ending stereo lead guitar to the surround lead guitar and me thinx one might go WTF happen to me song!?

The rest of the album was awesome and maybe a couple songs were a lil differnt but nothing like Im so Afraid.........grrrrrrr - right now Snood at a 6 or 7 based on one song and would hate to do that just on one song, but it me alll time fave

Taking a quick look now. Yes, those Stevie backing vox and that "windscream" swirling effect are so buried they are almost nonexistent in the stereo. I'm also noticing more emphasis on the drums in the 5.1. My guess as to why the ending guitar solo sounds a bit more recessed is because the guitar seems to be pushed mostly to the right side-wall, as opposed to the stereo where it is more centered. I noticed in all these FM 5.1s that guitar solos almost always seem to occupy the right front channel with some bleed to the rears, even if they are centered in the stereo mix.

I agree that the revisionist mixing philosophy applied to these classic FM albums is kind of questionable- If they did this to Sgt. Pepper there might've been rioting in the streets. This is a landmark classic rock album and other engineers have shown that it's totally possible to do more true-to-the-original surround mixes of classic material.

I suppose it's worth noting that unlike the other FM surround releases, Ken Caillat actually wasn't the original engineer for this particular album- the first album he did for Mac was Rumours.

Personally I like hearing this in surround with all these prominent new elements brought out. I think of this new remix as more of an interesting alternative to the original than a definitive replacement. TBH I've only heard a handful of surround mixes (out of nearly 600) that I believe are truly "better" than the original stereo presentation.

Again, I'm listening with relatively fresh ears. I won't try to convince you to raise your score- I admire your passion for the material and a "7" is by no means bad.

 

[ar surround]

...But track 11

Snood all time favorite track of Fleetwood Mac EVVVVVER.................I'm So Afraid

Weird kinda awesome things Snood noticed on this song (wish never did).........Stevie Nicks backing/Support vocals are more prominent, more shwwooosh environment effects all around........

BUT A FREAKING TOTAL LOSS OF LINDSEY'S GUITAR AND LEAD GUITAR IN THIS SONG!!!!!

SNOOD WENT BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN STEREO AND MULTI MANY TIME..........WTF!!!!!!!...

Snood, I listened to I'm So Afraid in stereo/Logic7 7.1 followed by the surround cut. Yes, the guitar work is more prominent on the stereo version but not reduced so much on the 5.1 to bother me; and I hadn't really noticed the reduced guitar levels until your post and doing this back-to-back comparison. Before this test, the only differences I noticed on the 5.1 were the greater emphasis on Nicks backing support and the shwoooosh effects. I really can't tell you which version I prefer as both smoke my original red-book CD that was sitting on the shelf.

I do empathize with you because there are a multiple cases where my favorite song in what is otherwise a great surround mix is a dud IMO. For example: The You Made Me So Very Happy quad mix on BS&T...highly edited and sonically de-balled...enough that It Made Me So Very Unhappy.

 

[lennon fan]

Snood, I listened to I'm So Afraid in stereo/Logic7 7.1 followed by the surround cut. Yes, the guitar work is more prominent on the stereo version but not reduced so much on the 5.1 to bother me; and I hadn't really noticed the reduced guitar levels until your post and doing this back-to-back comparison. Before this test, the only differences I noticed on the 5.1 were the greater emphasis on Nicks backing support and the shwoooosh effects. I really can't tell you which version I prefer as both smoke my original red-book CD that was sitting on the shelf.

I do empathize with you because there are a multiple cases where my favorite song in what is otherwise a great surround mix is a dud IMO. For example: The You Made Me So Very Happy quad mix on BS&T...highly edited and sonically de-balled...enough that It Made Me So Very Unhappy.

if you can get the underground second quad mix of that BST album, your mind will be well and truly blown.

 

[lennon fan]

the look on my face right now is total blank.
So, after looking around last month, I ordered it from Movie Mars as they had the best price I could find at the time, 62 bucks.
They were supposed to debit from my acct. when it was delivered, which was supposed to be last Saturday.
It never arrived.
I opened a case.
They are supposed to refund, but now I have to order it AGAIN.
I got it off ebay for 56, so it's a savings, but now I'll have to wait another week.
sorry to go on about something the forum need not even know about, but if y'all knew how much I've been looking forward to this one...
sigh.

 

[lennon fan]

Thank you SJ - but please check out the stereo mix.......then try the surround

first jarring thing was how much i could hear stevie nicks backing vocals and also the whooshiy sound effects (which were koo but seem to take away from LINDSEY)

But compare the ending stereo lead guitar to the surround lead guitar and me thinx one might go WTF happen to me song!?

The rest of the album was awesome and maybe a couple songs were a lil differnt but nothing like Im so Afraid.........grrrrrrr - right now Snood at a 6 or 7 based on one song and would hate to do that just on one song, but it me alll time fave

Oh wil mention Snood had detailed song by song reviews.....and was thinking this was a 9 up until IM SO AFRAID.........was thinking ummm this might be even more awesome.....but then u give me a 4 on me fave song ever................:howl:howl:howl:howl:howl:howl:howl:howl:howl:howl:howl:howl:howl

I understand your feelings on this track as it's an all time fave of mine as well. Lindsey wails, the lyrics are sooooo dark...
My only suggestion if you can't get the guitar sound you want, listen to what John is doing, that alone is mind bending...

an additional note...I'm So Afraid is the perfect link between early Peter Green era Mac and the BuckNicks version. True continuity and enduring chemistry.

 

[sjcorne]

if you can get the underground second quad mix of that BST album, your mind will be well and truly blown.

True, but I doubt he'd be too thrilled that "You Make Me So Very Happy" is missing one of the brass parts entirely.