markshan
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
I didn't think my voice was whiny. And my reason wasn't any of those. As far as brass goes, perhaps, but it's just my opinion. We all get one of those, don't we?
HiRez Poll Fleetwood Mac - RUMOURS [DVD-A/SACD-JAPAN]
- Thread starter JonUrban
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I didn't think my voice was whiny. And my reason wasn't any of those. As far as brass goes, perhaps, but it's just my opinion. We all get one of those, don't we?
Agreed.
Didn't care for that in 1977.
Don't care for it in 2017.
Really don't get the thinking behind this and would love to have a modern remix engineer explain the thinking. Except for certain cases, as when creating the voice of God (or McCartney's "Let Me Roll It"), this "technique" is pretty much discredited. As in, a no-no. Parsons never does it, nor does Scheiner, to my knowledge. I really suspect many engineers are working off theory and don't really do much actual living-room listening.
Surround mix engineers, let's agree to make 2017 the last year of Vocal X 5.
kap'n krunch
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Well, I disagree...just cause AP or ES don't do it , it doesn't mean it's not valid...
If it fits the style of the song , "all 5" is fine..as long as they don't do it in ALL the album...
If it fits the style of the song , "all 5" is fine..as long as they don't do it in ALL the album...
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jimfisheye
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2010
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- 3,547
I mean... if you want a mix element in mono and centered in the soundstage, it comes equally out of the 5 speakers. I think this can make sense in a mix as simply as the same mono technique in stereo makes sense for some things. We can certainly disagree on weather or not it fits a particular mix of course. Sometimes it very much does not!
Anchoring some mix elements in big mono comes across like a live concert mix. Some elements you want to be heard the same everywhere. Others make sense in motion no matter where you are listening from.
10 from Baggy. Is it perfect? Maybe, maybe not. Does it feature Christine Perfect? Hells yes. That woman could sing me the back of a cereal box and I'd shell out for it.
Sounds like a reference disc to me. Awesome, iconic songs too. Well worth it! :upthumb
Sounds like a reference disc to me. Awesome, iconic songs too. Well worth it! :upthumb
phrostbyte
Well-known Member
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2010
- Messages
- 138
Did anyone notice this DVD-Audio actually has 3 separate MLP mixes?
1] MLP 5.1 96khz [00:44:26]
2] MLP 2.0 96khz [00:44:02]
3] MLP 5.1 48khz [00:40:04]
anyone know what the difference between the two 5.1 mixes is, why some of the tracks are longer?
edit: nevermind it's the commentary track. doh!
1] MLP 5.1 96khz [00:44:26]
2] MLP 2.0 96khz [00:44:02]
3] MLP 5.1 48khz [00:40:04]
anyone know what the difference between the two 5.1 mixes is, why some of the tracks are longer?
edit: nevermind it's the commentary track. doh!
One of the 5.1 playlists is actually an audio commentary set to instrumental versions of the songs.
Very cool!
phrostbyte
Well-known Member
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2010
- Messages
- 138
One of the 5.1 playlists is actually an audio commentary set to instrumental versions of the songs.
Very cool!
just figured that out after playing with it, thanks for the tip :banana:
Audiowannabee
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Got the sacd. Its a great album. Been playing it forever in stereo since a teen when it first came out.
Great in surround.
A must have album. A 10
Great in surround.
A must have album. A 10
Goona
800 Club - QQ All-Star
Great bass good surround good packaging Great music what more can you ask
The56Kid
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
‘Great bass’ is right. Never understood the ‘lacking bass’ comments reference this impressive 5.1 release. Just goes to show we all hear uniquely; or our systems vary substantially.
With my older setup if I played it as DVD-A it was bass light in places (Go Your Own Way being a stand out, IIRC) but if I played the DVD-V layer it sounded a whole lot better, which is presumably due to bass management or lack thereof when using the analogue ins.
Did you ever get your disc back? Are you still friends with the person who took your disc? If you bought another one, what version did you buy? The DVD-A or the SACD?
I originally purchased this DVD-A from a Best Buy in the early 2000s. I don't remember the price I paid, but it would have been what ever the going retail rate of it being new at the time. In other words, not a whole hell of a lot. I haven't really listened to it in years, but now with my recent audio upgrade, I've been taking the time to listen to go back and listen again to more of the high quality audio in my collection...most of it by the way very ironically being 5.1 remixes in high resolution.
The first couple times I listened to this release in 5.1, (about 15 years ago or so) I was astounded with what I heard. I hope to take another listen to it again in the next day or so and type out within this thread my experiences with my most recent take on the album. I'd do it later today, but I have a friend coming over to watch a couple movies. If that falls through, yea; I'll be checking it out tonight.
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I actually had time to listen to the full album before my friend came over. Wow, talk about extended listening; after listening to Rumours, I also ended up watched two movies including other audio samples from other 5.1 or Quad mixes as demo material.
Now about the Rumours DVD-A, I felt the first song had a bit too much mid upper bass, so it made the audio sound muddy, but most if not the rest of the songs on the album sounded correct i.e. the bass was utilized much better in the lower region of those lower frequencies...an area where my two subs work all too well!
In my case, I think the 5.1 mix would sound even better if I turned down the subs a bit. Doing so would give the appearance of increased upper frequencies to give much more impact with the rhythm section (drums) and vocals. Since there are no standards of how much bass a sound engineer puts onto the disc from the original recordings, we are at the mercy of having to adjust tone controls every now and then. Personally I just leave them alone, so the audio simply is what it is. Actually I have no tone controls, however if I wish; I could go into the menu system and start adjusting the settings, but I'm just not going to start messing around in there.
Something that's been bugging me a bit with my system. Mine is set up for 7.1 That's a good thing as it can also do 5.1, but when my system was calibrated, the receiver was set to map out 5.1 to 7.1. What I've noticed is when I originally mapped out 5.1 to play as 5.1, any rear sounds going from right to left start all the way from the very rear right and end all the way to the very rear left. When the 5.1 audio is mapped out to 7.1, the same sound will still appears to start from the rear right, but because where I'm sitting, instead of the sound ending at the very rear left, it seems to end just a little bit to the rear left of me, not all the way to the extreme rear left. I'm starting to think this is because I'm still hearing the audio from the left BACK speaker as apposed to the left SURROUND speaker. The surrounds are on the very edges of the side walls behind me, and the BACK speakers are further behind, but placed a little bit closer together.
Attached is a image to help describe what I'm talking about.
Not that this is important, but if you were wondering at least with real 7.1 content, the surrounds and rears are independent of each other. I'm sure it's just a setting in the receiver, but what I'm worried about is if I switch it, if it might change mess with the volume level. I would think or at least hope it would stay the same, but I'm going to have to do some testing to make sure.
"Oh Daddy" didn't have that huge room effect I remember from the first time I played it some 15 years ago. However the differences could be many things such as the 5.1 being mapped out to 7.1, or it could be how the audio levels are currently adjusted now when compared to how it was set up with my older speakers. If I remember correctly, I may have been sitting on a different couch at the same spot where the back of the couch was not nearly as high as the back of my current couch. I'm not that tall of a person, so when I sit up really straight and lift myself up a little bit, it does make it easier to hear the rears, but it's not a position I would normally be at when listening for a extended period of time. Yea I know levels can be raised or lowered, but for the most part it does seem fine to me. I think it depends on the mix. Sometimes I really don't hear much from behind, but there is stuff going on back there, and other times it's very noticeable and plays well with the front speakers.
In any case, my experience is the same as others who have written here when it comes to the extra bits of music mixed in that is not on the regular stereo mix. And sometimes I've noticed (as others had stated) it seems like I'm hearing either a different take, or that the levels at which the separate tracks are being reproduced can give the appearance of a whole other feeling even if we are in fact listening to the same take. Above all, that's whats really different to me about this 5.1 mix; it's almost like I'm listening to a completely different album unlike other well known recordings that have also been remixed to 5.1. Take the Yes album "Close to the Edge" remixed by Steven Wilson. It's spectacular, and yet it's a whole new experience even though I can clearly hear I'm listening to the same same recording I've been hearing over all these these years.
With the Rumours 5.1 mix, I can say what does seem different to me (when compared to other 5.1 mixes) is it does not sound as solid to me as other surround mixes. In my view, that might be the better way of putting it when I say that it sounds like a different take when in fact it may be the same take.
Now about the Rumours DVD-A, I felt the first song had a bit too much mid upper bass, so it made the audio sound muddy, but most if not the rest of the songs on the album sounded correct i.e. the bass was utilized much better in the lower region of those lower frequencies...an area where my two subs work all too well!
In my case, I think the 5.1 mix would sound even better if I turned down the subs a bit. Doing so would give the appearance of increased upper frequencies to give much more impact with the rhythm section (drums) and vocals. Since there are no standards of how much bass a sound engineer puts onto the disc from the original recordings, we are at the mercy of having to adjust tone controls every now and then. Personally I just leave them alone, so the audio simply is what it is. Actually I have no tone controls, however if I wish; I could go into the menu system and start adjusting the settings, but I'm just not going to start messing around in there.
Something that's been bugging me a bit with my system. Mine is set up for 7.1 That's a good thing as it can also do 5.1, but when my system was calibrated, the receiver was set to map out 5.1 to 7.1. What I've noticed is when I originally mapped out 5.1 to play as 5.1, any rear sounds going from right to left start all the way from the very rear right and end all the way to the very rear left. When the 5.1 audio is mapped out to 7.1, the same sound will still appears to start from the rear right, but because where I'm sitting, instead of the sound ending at the very rear left, it seems to end just a little bit to the rear left of me, not all the way to the extreme rear left. I'm starting to think this is because I'm still hearing the audio from the left BACK speaker as apposed to the left SURROUND speaker. The surrounds are on the very edges of the side walls behind me, and the BACK speakers are further behind, but placed a little bit closer together.
Attached is a image to help describe what I'm talking about.
Not that this is important, but if you were wondering at least with real 7.1 content, the surrounds and rears are independent of each other. I'm sure it's just a setting in the receiver, but what I'm worried about is if I switch it, if it might change mess with the volume level. I would think or at least hope it would stay the same, but I'm going to have to do some testing to make sure.
"Oh Daddy" didn't have that huge room effect I remember from the first time I played it some 15 years ago. However the differences could be many things such as the 5.1 being mapped out to 7.1, or it could be how the audio levels are currently adjusted now when compared to how it was set up with my older speakers. If I remember correctly, I may have been sitting on a different couch at the same spot where the back of the couch was not nearly as high as the back of my current couch. I'm not that tall of a person, so when I sit up really straight and lift myself up a little bit, it does make it easier to hear the rears, but it's not a position I would normally be at when listening for a extended period of time. Yea I know levels can be raised or lowered, but for the most part it does seem fine to me. I think it depends on the mix. Sometimes I really don't hear much from behind, but there is stuff going on back there, and other times it's very noticeable and plays well with the front speakers.
In any case, my experience is the same as others who have written here when it comes to the extra bits of music mixed in that is not on the regular stereo mix. And sometimes I've noticed (as others had stated) it seems like I'm hearing either a different take, or that the levels at which the separate tracks are being reproduced can give the appearance of a whole other feeling even if we are in fact listening to the same take. Above all, that's whats really different to me about this 5.1 mix; it's almost like I'm listening to a completely different album unlike other well known recordings that have also been remixed to 5.1. Take the Yes album "Close to the Edge" remixed by Steven Wilson. It's spectacular, and yet it's a whole new experience even though I can clearly hear I'm listening to the same same recording I've been hearing over all these these years.
With the Rumours 5.1 mix, I can say what does seem different to me (when compared to other 5.1 mixes) is it does not sound as solid to me as other surround mixes. In my view, that might be the better way of putting it when I say that it sounds like a different take when in fact it may be the same take.
Attachments
DVD-A
Unfortunately, I have to agree with those few who feel like the vocals on this one are too low in relation to the rest of the mix. I think every track has this issue to various degrees, but a couple of the big ones to my ears are "The Chain" and "Go Your Own Way".
I like how the instruments are mixed, and the audio making-of is worth an extra point. But, this is a low 8 for me, and I'm reluctant to buy the other Fleetwood 5.1s because I assume the vocals are handled the same way.
Unfortunately, I have to agree with those few who feel like the vocals on this one are too low in relation to the rest of the mix. I think every track has this issue to various degrees, but a couple of the big ones to my ears are "The Chain" and "Go Your Own Way".
I like how the instruments are mixed, and the audio making-of is worth an extra point. But, this is a low 8 for me, and I'm reluctant to buy the other Fleetwood 5.1s because I assume the vocals are handled the same way.
Can you try juicing up the center channel a bit to see if you can bring up the vocals to your liking?
Whoa had this one for ages ...I keep telling myself to get the votes in on my little collection.
Mine is the SACD version
I'm not breaking any chains here.
A solid 9
Mine is the SACD version
I'm not breaking any chains here.
A solid 9
Scottie-boy
Member
Had this one on my list for years, but didn't want to pay the DVD-A surcharge. Finally the sacd was issued.
Beautiful mix of a beautiful album. 9. Only complaint is the treatment of the vocals as others have stated. Seem to be too low on a couple of tracks, and don't prefer all channel vocals - prefer front level bias
Beautiful mix of a beautiful album. 9. Only complaint is the treatment of the vocals as others have stated. Seem to be too low on a couple of tracks, and don't prefer all channel vocals - prefer front level bias
- Joined
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Finally obtained the DVD-Audio. Fantastic set of songs - I'm young enough to have not really been as exposed to them as much as other apparently were, but played a them a lot in Rock Band
And the mix is totally to my taste - highly-isolated components is one approach, but I don't see it as inherently preferable. I'm quite partial to a wider wall-of-sound effect (even in extreme cases like Goldfrapp's Supernature), and this is a good midpoint.
And got to round it up to a 10 just for having the 5.1 instrumental with commentary plus slideshows. Do any other discs have anything similar? Never seen it. This is exactly what the DVD-Audio designers had in mind!
And the mix is totally to my taste - highly-isolated components is one approach, but I don't see it as inherently preferable. I'm quite partial to a wider wall-of-sound effect (even in extreme cases like Goldfrapp's Supernature), and this is a good midpoint.
And got to round it up to a 10 just for having the 5.1 instrumental with commentary plus slideshows. Do any other discs have anything similar? Never seen it. This is exactly what the DVD-Audio designers had in mind!
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