From Billboard: Studios Are Rushing to Record Music in Hi-Def Surround Sound

[Old Quad Guy]

I haven’t tried the surround sound apps yet, but it’s a start. For whatever it’s worth, there are titles that would probably never have existed or received a release without streaming. Eventually, it’s not hard to imagine that with faster internet speeds, more providers will offer Hi-Resolution surround services. But we have to start somewhere.

Also, the services that people already subscribe to offers the opportunity to expose Quad and other surround types to a whole new audience. And we need this piece of the puzzle if we want more people interested in surround music. Hopefully this will also translate into more surround titles in disc format like what SDE is doing. Thankfully, this isn’t 2008 when the future of surround was a bit dicey. So, I’m excited and hopeful to see what happens now.

 

[nikomen]

But when has the music industry EVER put optimal fidelity for the niche crowd over convenience for the masses and profits

A truer statement has not been uttered. I'm still pissed that the best formats in audio IMHO. DVD-Audio and SACD never took off like they should have. I mean they literally priced them the same as a regular CD but people were too cheap to invest in the system good enough to take advantage of it. It's kind of like how 3D TV died because people were trying to watch it on then-standard 50" TVs. Duh! On a projector screen or even my 75 inch, it was the bomb with a good release. Needless to say, I still regularly spin all my carefully cultivated DVDA/SACD ISOs on my modified Oppo 205 and they sound just as good as recent Blu-ray audio releases.

And doesn’t Apple stream lossless - albeit stereo only - just Qobuz?

Nope, Apple streams lossless too but the big difference is they also stream lossy... where Qobuz only streams lossless. Don't get me wrong, I wish Q would stream the quickly proliferating Atmos material...but it can't even compare to something like the Beatles classic recordings in Atmos on disc.

Agreed! To me, Atmos Blu-Ray discs. Not interested in streaming

 

[Sal1950]

But when has the music industry EVER put optimal fidelity for the niche crowd over convenience for the masses and profits

A truer statement has not been uttered. I'm still pissed that the best formats in audio IMHO. DVD-Audio and SACD never took off like they should have. I mean they literally priced them the same as a regular CD but people were too cheap to invest in the system good enough to take advantage of it. It's kind of like how 3D TV died because people were trying to watch it on then-standard 50" TVs. Duh! On a projector screen or even my 75 inch, it was the bomb with a good release. Needless to say, I still regularly spin all my carefully cultivated DVDA/SACD ISOs on my modified Oppo 205 and they sound just as good as recent Blu-ray audio releases.

And doesn’t Apple stream lossless - albeit stereo only - just Qobuz?

Nope, Apple streams lossless too but the big difference is they also stream lossy... where Qobuz only streams lossless. Don't get me wrong, I wish Q would stream the quickly proliferating Atmos material...but it can't even compare to something like the Beatles classic recordings in Atmos on disc.

I understand your point but the other side of thing is that if Apples streaming of any type of Atmos encourages listeners to invest in a Atmos system, that's a win-win. If the numbers of those interested in Atmos continues to increase, eventually we'll be able to push them into lossless just like they we did with 2ch. Lossless Atmos steaming is very demanding on bandwidth, it will have to be able to support itself in numbers of listeners.
When Qobuz starts streaming 5.1 and Atmos losslessly, then they'll have something to offer.

 

[hi-res_edition]

Personally think Blu-ray is the best optical disc format. It serves up everything a DVD-A can do, and do it better + it can contain Dolby Atmos. While I appreciate SACD for its convenience of playing audio, it has its limitations that are surpassed again by several codecs available on a Blu-ray IMO. What I fail to understand is why Apple Music can't provide Dolby Atmos as a lossless format - I am pretty sure the bandwidth exists to stream it to fanatics like us!

 

[Old Quad Guy]

Curious to know:

What would the bandwidth download stream need to be for lossless Atmos streams? Would the bandwidth be different for 5.1. Or for another lossless format? What would the download bit rate be for different types of lossless streaming? Thanks.

 

[scottm18]

Well for comparison, HDMI ARC cannot handle Atmos lossless (only neutered streaming DD+) and that's one megabits per second. So somewhere between 1 and 37Mbps--which is Earc--is required for true blu-ray Atmos.

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

Curious to know:

What would the bandwidth download stream need to be for lossless Atmos streams? Would the bandwidth be different for 5.1. Or for another lossless format? What would the download bit rate be for different types of lossless streaming? Thanks.

It would be roughly the same as 24/96 5.1...if not slightly more. Certainly the butrate is lower than the video Apple is streaming...

 

[barfle]

It’s worth noting that bandwidth is a significant cost to providers, somit’s a business decision for them. QQ’s owners know this quite well, and they aren’t providing media for the most part. So lossless 24 bit, 96k, 14 channel (9.1.4) could rack up a considerable expense.

Some of us would be willing to cough up the bucks for that sort of service, but finding enough of us to make it worth doing could be a very iffy project.

Blu-rays can do that with ease. DVDs need MLP to do 96/24/5.1, so wifi streaming might be pushed beyond its limits, depending on the hardware and number of users.

 

[marcb]

Personally think Blu-ray is the best optical disc format. It serves up everything a DVD-A can do, and do it better + it can contain Dolby Atmos. While I appreciate SACD for its convenience of playing audio, it has its limitations that are surpassed again by several codecs available on a Blu-ray IMO. What I fail to understand is why Apple Music can't provide Dolby Atmos as a lossless format - I am pretty sure the bandwidth exists to stream it to fanatics like us!

I think it’s more likely a least common denominator hardware and knowledge issue than a bandwidth issue.

Just look at the multitudes of confused posts on this forum - with a significantly better than average audience knowledge base - on how to get things set up for atmos.

 

[marcb]

Agreed! To me, Atmos Blu-Ray discs. Not interested in streaming

That’s certainly a choice one can make…as long as you’re okay with nobody caring that you aren’t interested in streaming and missing out on 99% of the future atmos releases.

I personally decided eventually if I wanted my head to stop hurting, I’d have to quit beating it against the wall.

 

[dobyblue]

So many people are clueless about Atmos, just read the comments on various non-audiophile forums talking about “I listened to Yield in Atmos on my iPhone and it was so great!!!!!”
“Oh man, wait until you try it on headphones!”

Almost all Atmos is mastered with dynamics, given the love for Atmos from Jane and Joe Six Pack, you’d think the loudness wars would be over!

 

[scottm18]

Oh yeah I have to laugh whenever I see something like this. "Atmos" on cheap-@ss wimpy phone speakers...yeah sure thing.

 

[Mj33]

Streaming surround is weak and runs contrary to the aims of QQ. We should insist on physical media until the artists and labels get it. What’s wrong with blu ray discs? Nothing at all. They sound better than vinyl. Please don’t sabotage this for convenience or because labels are cheap. We’ll pay for physical media.

 

[MrSmithers]

Streaming surround is weak and runs contrary to the aims of QQ. We should insist on physical media until the artists and labels get it. What’s wrong with blu ray discs? Nothing at all. They sound better than vinyl. Please don’t sabotage this for convenience or because labels are cheap. We’ll pay for physical media.

I agree that it would be preferential to have the best possible fidelity available - but it's kinda cutting your nose off to spite your face to not enjoy the massive amount of music in surround that is now available via streaming... It's really opened up the floodgates. Who knows, they may go lossless someday? And there's always hope via download as well...

There are some titles that are actually better in their streaming form (mostly mpeg-h) than their original physical release...

• “Weird Al” Yankovic - Straight Outta Lynwood (5.1 DVD)
• David Gilmore - On An Island (5.1 DVD)
• Johnny Winter - Jasmine Nightdreams (Quad DTS CD)
• Johnny Mathis - The First Time I Ever Saw Your Face (Quad DTS CD)
• Bill Withers - Just As I Am (5.1 DVD)
• Poco - Crazy Eyes (Quad DTS CD)

 

[perzon57]

Streaming surround is weak and runs contrary to the aims of QQ. We should insist on physical media until the artists and labels get it. What’s wrong with blu ray discs? Nothing at all. They sound better than vinyl. Please don’t sabotage this for convenience or because labels are cheap. We’ll pay for physical media.

I don't see streaming surround as weak, and certainly not against the aims of QQ which is multichannel audio.
I buy music on disc when the price is right, but love all the music
I can stream in Atmos, especially when the disc is ridiculously priced like the DSOTM box.

 

[Mj33]

I agree that it would be preferential to have the best possible fidelity available - but it's kinda cutting your nose off to spite your face to not enjoy the massive amount of music in surround that is now available via streaming... It's really opened up the floodgates. Who knows, they may go lossless someday? And there's always hope via download as well...

There are some titles that are actually better in their streaming form (mostly mpeg-h) than their original physical release...

• “Weird Al” Yankovic - Straight Outta Lynwood (5.1 DVD)
• David Gilmore - On An Island (5.1 DVD)
• Johnny Winter - Jasmine Nightdreams (Quad DTS CD)
• Johnny Mathis - The First Time I Ever Saw Your Face (Quad DTS CD)
• Bill Withers - Just As I Am (5.1 DVD)
• Poco - Crazy Eyes (Quad DTS CD)

While I don’t dispute that there are some better mixes, it’s still leading away from physical media. This became readily apparent with Revolver. What a let down after the first four boxes. My feeling is that if we boycott streaming we can show the labels that we prefer physical media. It will be a tremendous loss if labels stop including/releasing spatial mixes in a physical format. I’m fine with stereo over Apple’s ‘spatial audio’, etc. Sorry to be so militant, but I’ve already seen this movie before with MP3s, and look what that got us.

 

[Mj33]

I don't see streaming surround as weak, and certainly not against the aims of QQ which is multichannel audio.
I buy music on disc when the price is right, but love all the music
I can stream in Atmos, especially when the disc is ridiculously priced like the DSOTM box.

I guess saying that it goes against the aims of QQ is a bit extreme, but multichannel started with physical media in the 70s. To do away with physical formats, at least in my opinion, is a disservice to listeners. Streaming hasn’t completely taken over physical media. YET. It always seemed to me that audiophiles would be the last holdouts to cross over to streaming. Maybe that time has come. Maybe I’m a dinosaur. But I like holding a dvd-a, sacd, blu ray, etc. and looking at the artwork, reading about the musicians, reading the lyrics, etc. Sure you kind find all that online (mostly), but there’s an art in the album format that is being lost.

 

[himey]

My feeling is that if we boycott streaming we can show the labels that we prefer physical media.

LOL

 

[LB-V]

LOL

Bite your tongue, @himey !! Streaming has brought to QQ members more surround music than ever before! The technology evolves. Just like from albums, 8-tracks, CDs, SACDs & DVD-A's, to digital streaming.

It's a journey....enjoy the music and let's support the physical media as much as possible at the same time. Ultimately, it's all about market share and profits. And the QQ population, combined with the multichannel system universe, doesn't represent a significant data point to swing the Industry.

Edit...

I meant @Mj33, not @himey! Apologies.

 

[perzon57]

I guess saying that it goes against the aims of QQ is a bit extreme, but multichannel started with physical media in the 70s. To do away with physical formats, at least in my opinion, is a disservice to listeners. Streaming hasn’t completely taken over physical media. YET. It always seemed to me that audiophiles would be the last holdouts to cross over to streaming. Maybe that time has come. Maybe I’m a dinosaur. But I like holding a dvd-a, sacd, blu ray, etc. and looking at the artwork, reading about the musicians, reading the lyrics, etc. Sure you kind find all that online (mostly), but there’s an art in the album format that is being lost.

I can't read the small text on the covers anymore anyhow, but I can read the lyrics that are displayed on screen when I play Atmos music from Apple Music. Also on Apple Music, I listen to music that I would not have bought even if it was on disc.