HiRez Poll Genesis - A TRICK OF THE TAIL [SACD]

[JonUrban]

Please post your thoughts and comments on this SACD release. If you feel so inclined, make a note as to where you found it, and what version you got! (NTSC/PAL).

Excuse the large scans below. I thought you would like to have a good look at these discs!

 

[Bob Romano]

I love love love this disc!!!

I really like the surround mix and it is my fave Genesis album! The songs are excellent and are definitely enhanced now by a great 5.1 mix. I also like that Phil's lead vocals are in the center all alone. Plenty of discreteness in the rears that open up the mix nicely. Ripples, Squonk and TOTT are my favorite tracks for surround.

I have read that these are overly compressed but I wasn't bothered by it and can honestly say that I didn't really notice any over-brightness or compression problems at all. That may be just on the redbook version or stereo SACD.

I got mine in the box set from Japan HMV (NTSC/SACD) for a total of $126 including shipping. I will definitely be ordering from there for the other two boxes. Their service was incredible.

I checked out the DTS 96/24 as well and it sounds beautiful. If you don't have SACD, you can't go wrong with the DTS version.

 

[daved64]

I keep telling myself I won't vote till I finish it, but I CAN'T finish it! It's BRIGHT and loud! The cymbals are mixed WAY TOO LOUDLY in the mix. Listen to the "sandman" section of Mad Man Moon. It's like a fucking marching band cymbal crasher is there! I tried it at a lower volume and my ears were still killing me. I don't have this problem with other discs.

 

[splinter7]

Mix & Fidelity are a 10
Music a 6
Overall = 8

I really love the way this recording sounds. It really enveloped me. Discrete use of the rears that help broaden the soundstage without totally destroying the feel of the original stereo mix. I appreciate that as I am not a fan of a 5.1 mix that totally alters the feel of a song that I have listened to countless times before.

The music itself is too “arty” for me. I confess that I like the mid-point of Genesis’ carrier more than the beginning and end. While I like Squonk, Ripples and Mad Man Moon the rest of the songs are lost on me. RA&B just sounds like a bad Broadway musical number.

Ordered the box set from HMV Japan for $126 and I was very pleased with their service.

 

[daved64]

I keep telling myself I won't vote till I finish it, but I CAN'T finish it! It's BRIGHT and loud! The cymbals are mixed WAY TOO LOUDLY in the mix. Listen to the "sandman" section of Mad Man Moon. It's like a fucking marching band cymbal crasher is there! I tried it at a lower volume and my ears were still killing me. I don't have this problem with other discs.

I won't be voting. I sold them. Won't discuss them further.

 

[JohnA]

Fantastic production, this is the best SACD I've got sitting comfortably next to the Dark Side of the Moon.

Can't wait for the rest of the Gabriel era (I regard Trick of the Tail as 'Gabriel' since it was obviously written and conceived with him as lead singer, although Collins was a very good vocal replacement in the end). After this one the wit and the edge were gone.

 

[Dob]

I have read that these are overly compressed but I wasn't bothered by it and can honestly say that I didn't really notice any over-brightness or compression problems at all.

The latest buzz is that the 5.1 mixes are now considered "crap," which is pretty amusing. "The perfect is the enemy of the good" - Voltaire

Say what you want about the flaws of multichannel mixes; overall, they are IMO far better sounding than the so-called "recommended" versions on CD (which have their own considerable flaws)...and isn't that the bottom line?

Yes, there is brightness, but it comes and goes, often within the same track. Phil sings quietly, and his voice sounds perfect...then he sings louder, and his voice is a bit edgy. Or vice versa. That's why you have to be careful about cranking these...if you turn them up for the great sounding moments, the volume might become a bit overwhelming in other parts. No big deal. The vast majority of rock CDs in my collection can't be cranked with impunity.

The important thing is that, even during these "edgy" moments, I found that the 5.1 mixes still sound better than the CDs.

I checked out the DTS 96/24 as well and it sounds beautiful. If you don't have SACD, you can't go wrong with the DTS version.

I thought that the DTS was just slightly more "congested" sounding compared with the SACD...but I didn't make an extensive comparison.

 

[zobalob]

I wouldn't say that the 5.1 mixes are "crap", the mix on this one, and "Wind...." too is outstanding, I do think they sound a bit harsh, though not as bad as "And Then There Were Three". The bonus disc sounds the best of any of them IMO.

 

[daved64]

The latest buzz is that the 5.1 mixes are now considered "crap," which is pretty amusing. "The perfect is the enemy of the good" - Voltaire
.

If you are referring to my post on SHTV, I wasn't singling out the mixes, but the entire package for the individual discs. Compared to the Depeche Mode releases, these are inferior overall regarding sound and liner notes, mixes etc....

But if you like them, then enjoy. I've never been more pissed off with a release. In fact, since Trick is the only one I really listened to before I sold them, I'll rate it. A 5.

 

[bugdaddy]

I wouldn't say that the 5.1 mixes are "crap", the mix on this one, and "Wind...." too is outstanding, I do think they sound a bit harsh....

i'm in this camp as well. i like the mix on this and "wind" just fine; not nuts abouts the sonics on either though. (those are the only two i have). also, they made a nice effort on video bonus stuff for this one. it's got a full 40 minute concert film plus 3 music videos - - much better bonus material than those low quality bootleg tv lip-sync thingies on "wind". still, not enough plusses to make me go for the rest of the box. i'll be sitting out until the Gabriel-era box is released.

 

[Guy Robinson]

In order from best to worst regarding the SACD 5.1 quality I would say; Bonus Disc, Wind and Wuthering, Abacab, Trick of the Tail. Duke and ATTW3 pretty much tied for last place . Couldn't really make a distinction between them. So these range to me from 9 to 5 depending on which one you are talking about. After the amazement at the detailing wears off after a few playings you realize that none of them are that great sonically. Listening to a Living Stereo opera right now recorded in 1960. Amazing how much better it sounds when compared to the Genesis discs from a sonic perspective. I know it's not the same thing but these Genesis discs could have been a whole lot better than they are. The sound is compromised by the choices they made. As I said when I voted on another thread, I won't be buying anymore of these boxes. I give Trick a 7 mainly for the detailing not the sonics.

 

[lapte]

... I won't be buying anymore of these boxes. I give Trick a 7 mainly for the detailing not the sonics.

I totally agree with you. For me personally it's almost impossible to enjoy these discs. Sonically they are so much inferior my expectations, that the only way to express my deep disappointment is to try to sell them as soon as possible. No more Genesis 'hi-rez' for me! :-((

 

[JohnA]

I've got my fair share of crappy CDs, SACDs and DVDAs. Compressed, bright garbage that gives you a headache halfway through (try the 'new' remaster of Close to the Edge (came out couple of years ago) and you'll see what crap really sounds like)

Trick of the Tail sounds like a breath of fresh air on my system.

 

[sacd user]

I am new to Genesis except from radio. From there I have been able to listen to the multichannel mix and be happy with the music.

But reading this forum and other fora I decided to compare the 2-channel and multichannel mixes, and then I am not satisfied with the multichannel mix. In my system setup the sound from the 2-channel mix is not found in the multi-channel mix, which in comparison sounds thin and bright.

The multichannel mix must get a 6 from me.

 

[Guy Robinson]

I've got my fair share of crappy CDs, SACDs and DVDAs. Compressed, bright garbage that gives you a headache halfway through (try the 'new' remaster of Close to the Edge (came out couple of years ago) and you'll see what crap really sounds like)

With crap it is just the degree of how much it smells. It's still crap though.

 

[ss9001]

With crap it is just the degree of how much it smells. It's still crap though.

While I haven't gotten any of these SACD's, I DO have 4 Genesis & Phil Collins CD's. 3 out of the 4 are very bright & compressed and 2 are nearly unlistenable at moderate volumes on revealing speakers. Home By the Sea is one of my favorite Genesis songs, and it and the reprise can give me temporary tinnitus if I turn it up. Lousy recording techniques or maybe that's how Collins & band wanted them to sound.

Why mixers think rock should be a mushed mess wall of sound is beyond me. Disappointing to read that these SACD's also are mixed the same.

I once had And There Were Three on a cassette tape, and it wore out, so was looking at getting at least this one and Abacab. But now, I don't know if it will be worth the expense.

ss9001

 

[Guy Robinson]

While I haven't gotten any of these SACD's, I DO have 4 Genesis & Phil Collins CD's. 3 out of the 4 are very bright & compressed and 2 are nearly unlistenable at moderate volumes on revealing speakers. Home By the Sea is one of my favorite Genesis songs, and it and the reprise can give me temporary tinnitus if I turn it up. Lousy recording techniques or maybe that's how Collins & band wanted them to sound.

Why mixers think rock should be a mushed mess wall of sound is beyond me. Disappointing to read that these SACD's also are mixed the same.

I once had And There Were Three on a cassette tape, and it wore out, so was looking at getting at least this one and Abacab. But now, I don't know if it will be worth the expense.

ss9001

Abacab might be worth getting but I wouldn't bother with ATTW3.

 

[JohnA]

Could it be that the version we got in the UK is different to that of the US?

Mine is very good --- I find it surprising for people to have reservations about theirs. How do we know that we're comparing like with like?

 

[Guy Robinson]

Could it be that the version we got in the UK is different to that of the US?

Mine is very good --- I find it surprising for people to have reservations about theirs. How do we know that we're comparing like with like?

Mine is the SACD/DVD-V PAL version from Germany.

 

[Dob]

I've never been more pissed off with a release.

But think of how much pleasure these releases have brought to your fellow Genesis fans who enjoy them! That should make you feel at least a bit better.

After the amazement at the detailing wears off after a few playings you realize that none of them are that great sonically.

I'll be the first to admit that I have some 5.1 (and stereo) CDs that sound better. Unfortunately, none of those CDs are by Genesis.

For me personally it's almost impossible to enjoy these discs. Sonically they are so much inferior my expectations, that the only way to express my deep disappointment is to try to sell them as soon as possible.

So if you want to listen to one of these albums, you reach for what version?