HiRez Poll Genesis - WIND AND WUTHERING [SACD]

[JonUrban]

Please post your thoughts and comments on this SACD release. If you feel so inclined, make a note as to where you found it, and what version you got! (NTSC/PAL).

Excuse the large scans below. I thought you would like to have a good look at these discs!

 

[elmer]

OK - time to stop pussyfooting around with all this compression and mastering volume nonsense. QQ members are fiddling while Rome burns! With all of the criticisms of freight, timing, PAL vs NTSC, Collins vs. Gabriel - you would thing we all had this massive selection of available titles to pull from. Yawn - a box set from Genesis in SACD. Get over it and get on it quick! This is a fantastic set from packaging to mix to fidelity. If we don't get excited about this then the pall of releases will just continue down the road of a self fulfilled prophesy.

This ranks (IMHO) in the realm of the Talking Heads box set - except there are 2 more (box sets) to come - and certainly superior in packaging and sound to the Doors box set - personal music taste not withstanding.

A 10 - if you haven't purchased at least one of these titles (the box set is really the way to go) shame on you! Get off the forum and on to the SH site where stereo rules.

 

[timbre4]

I did it! ElusiveDisc is $149 for 12 disc SACD/NTSC DVD box. Got first time customer FREE shipping too! April 17th is the official day of release....

Pretty psyched about this.....

 

[stormchaser]

Well, I've still only received this one but I have listened to it multiple times. So, I give it an enthusiastic 8. I ordered these discs individually (although I might bite on a box set later depending on pricing).

The strengths of this disc over the original redbook CD are overwhelming. Detailing on all levels is light years beyond the original. The Moog bass pedals and bass lines make you take notice and elements new to me are constantly popping out of the surrounds in what is a fairly active mix by Nick Davis. I think the mix is well done with Phil's voice anchored in the center channel (which is especially apparent on "Blood on the Rooftops").

I really, really, want to give this disc a 10. I just can't though, due to the somewhat bright, loud mastering. I have gotten used to these shortcomings but dadgumit, these are SACDs! We should expect lousy mastering for mp3s on CD versions, not SACDs. So, an 8 it is for me. Still, I am very happy I picked this up, I am waiting for my other individual discs to arrive, and will be picking up the other discs later as they arrive.

As Elmer said, there are not many surround discs on the horizon, we need to appreciate what we have and folks should pick these up (although I reserve the right to gripe about what we COULD have had).

 

[bugdaddy]

First off, I think the mix on this is very nice. It becomes immediately apparent in the first song “11th Earl of Mar”, when the 1st part of the chorus enters directly behind one’s head, that a real effort was made here to create a rich surround experience. (I love that effect - - similar to Patti Smith's vocals on REM’s “E-bow the Letter”). There are equally pleasing surround experiences all over the album; the percussion and whistle instrumental break of “One for the Vine” quickly comes to mind. Sublime stuff. Thank you Nick Davis.

That being said, I’d also have to say that I believe this is literally the loudest Sacd I own. Now I personally don’t mind loud in and of itself. (I’m a big fan of the Flaming Lips DVD-a’s for example). Me, I’ll just turn down the volume a bit and get on with my life. The bigger issue to my ears is that I do find this really bright. (ah, i see Stormchaser does as well). Note that by contrast I don’t find the Elton John’s exceedingly bright as some do. In fact, with my aging ears I don’t find a lot of music super bright. This I do.

I think it’s pretty well understood that we surround guys tend to be a bit more forgiving than some when it comes to sonics. (After all, we’re here for the mix - - why else would some of us gush over 30-year-old coffee-stained quad 8-tracks ). So, with this one I’ll pot down the volume and maybe goose the low end a little for balance and just enjoy. For me at least, this is last of the great Genesis albums and I’m very glad I have it in surround. I’ll give it a solid 7.

 

[Guy Robinson]

Okay, I have listened to the surround SACD 5 times now. I think that is enough to vote on. I'm giving it a 9. 1 point off for the fact that you can't crank these due to the top end. You can get them loud enough but after a while they become annoying. The normal volume on my receiver is around 15 for most discs. I listen to W&W at about 30. At that volume it is really pleasing. The detailing is incredible compared to other versions I have. At that low volume everything is pretty much equal across the frequency range. Still lots of bass as well. It actually nice to be able to play something at such a low volume and still have everything in tact including Phil's vocals every word of which can be made out.

The extras on the DVD are just okay. The insight behind the album in the Interview section is interesting to hear. Didn't know that it was Tony Bank's favourite or second favourite. The videos of performances are very bad from a video standpoint as they are bootlegs. The audio on these also seems to be lip-synched as the audio sounds the same as the originals. So the only noteworthy extra here is the Interview.

Can't wait for the box to arrive as this is just a teaser.

 

[Frantic]

Interesting,

I am still waiting on my set to arrive!!
However, based on some of the reviews of this, "W&W" and "Trick of the Tail", I am concerned about the high end.
It seems that some are put back by the sharpness. I really hope that this is not the case as I do prefer a warmer sound.

Review will follow soon

 

[peterzach]

Well I will be posting the same info. for each cd as I got the box 76-82(Sacd and NTSC) and as Trick and W & W were my favorite cd's/lp's from past they are still my favorite after these multi channels came out. I am not bothered by the compression used and am enjoying the extra details coming out in each sacd and after each listen. I think Nick Davis has done a good job on these mix's. I will give W & W a score of 9(10 for music and 8 m/c mix).
I also enjoy the extra disk which has songs I had never heard before.
I would rate extra cd as 8 music and a 8 for m/c mix.

 

[kap'n krunch]

I've listened to this DVD-A DTS 96/24 (not a fan of SACD, although I have it)many times-it's my Genesis fave from the Phil era, and it's a great a mix.

As elmer pointed out so rightly, this is is a dream come true, at least for me, so quit bitchin' .

I'm willing to pardon the extra brightness for the great "bubble" of the mix.("Abacab" is different since it's a "revisionist" mix and I love the gated drums!)

I got this and the Gabriel SACD boxes, and , yes , the PG box is not nearly as bright, I'd rate ALL of them (except for "Abacab") a two enthusiastic thumbs up,
so here is my "10!!

 

[LizardKing]

Just realised that I hadn't voted on this!!! I got it when it originally came out.....

I really like this album (my fave post Peter Gabriel Genesis album) but the "harshness" of the Genesis 5.1 mixes is disappointing for me.

 

[eddieginger]

"I've listened to this DVD-A DTS 96/24 many times.........."

Please correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I understand it's not a DVD-A.

Also, Wikipedia suggests that the stereo layer on the DVD is only available if you choose the Dolby Digital option on a non-surround system....is that right?

 

[LizardKing]

"I've listened to this DVD-A DTS 96/24 many times.........."

Please correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I understand it's not a DVD-A.

Also, Wikipedia suggests that the stereo layer on the DVD is only available if you choose the Dolby Digital option on a non-surround system....is that right?

This was not released as a DVD-A. It was released in SACD+DVD (UK & Japan) & normal CD+DVD (US) sets. The DVD does not have any content (high resolution lossless) in the AUDIO_TS folder on the disc.

As far as I remember there is no actual stereo content (of the actual album) on the DVD. So your system will downmix the 5.1 to stereo if you don't have surround.

FYI - Some players can downmix DTS also... So it is possible to downmix the DTS in some players, but usually only high end players.

 

[eddieginger]

This was not released as a DVD-A. It was released in SACD+DVD (UK & Japan) & normal CD+DVD (US) sets. The DVD does not have any content (high resolution lossless) in the AUDIO_TS folder on the disc.

As far as I remember there is no actual stereo content (of the actual album) on the DVD. So your system will downmix the 5.1 to stereo if you don't have surround.

FYI - Some players can downmix DTS also... So it is possible to downmix the DTS in some players, but usually only high end players.

Thanks for that...I was more concerned with the audio for the visual content on the DVD because I also have the SACD so that takes care of the actual music.

Re downmixing, is it something the player does automatically if I haven't got a surround system or do I have to get into the audio setup menu on my player?

 

[LizardKing]

Thanks for that...I was more concerned with the audio for the visual content on the DVD because I also have the SACD so that takes care of the actual music.

Re downmixing, is it something the player does automatically if I haven't got a surround system or do I have to get into the audio setup menu on my player?

If you output using RCA stereo outs (analog) - then it should downmix the Dullby Digital 5.1 by default to Stereo.

 

[rtbluray]

So time for my first proper surround review of this release:

First off, I'm struck when playing this album back to back with "A Trick of the Tail" how different it tonally sounds from its predecessor.
For one thing, it definitely seems to be a brighter. Most of the time on the SACD surround layer, it's not over excessive, but on a couple of tracks, it got to be a bit much, particularly in certain parts of the opening track "Eleventh Earl of Mar" and "All in a Mouse's Night". The remastered CD layer however is a whole other story, and I do not recommend listening to that particular mastering...
Overall, the mix is a very strong one, and I find that there's a clear difference between the quality of the SACD surround and the DTS on the DVD, mostly in that there's a clearer sense of separation among the five channels.
"Blood on the Rooftops", "One for the Vine", and "Afterglow" are the clear highlights, both musically and concerning the surround mix, although most of the other tracks have many great moments as well. I think this disc should be a worthwhile addition to any collection, if you can find the SACD for a good price though...

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

Me and the Mrs. went to see Steve Hackett on his Genesis revisited tour last night (Birmingham Symphony Hall.) It was an incredible gig and he played several tracks from this album so I'm giving it a listen tonight and thought it was a good opportunity for a review. The gig was awesome but I find this re-mix a big disappointment. For me Wind and Wuthering has always been a "warm" album; it glows and comforts, or at least it should do. Whilst the fidelity and quality of surround mix of this release is pretty good, the loudness war compression has squeezed any last semblance of warmth and soul out of the album. It's cold, clinical and in places (eg Mouse's Night) downright painful to listen to. I can't give it any more than a six. Very sad.

 

[DuncanS]

Me and the Mrs. went to see Steve Hackett on his Genesis revisited tour last night (Birmingham Symphony Hall.) It was an incredible gig and he played several tracks from this album so I'm giving it a listen tonight and thought it was a good opportunity for a review. The gig was awesome but I find this re-mix a big disappointment. For me Wind and Wuthering has always been a "warm" album; it glows and comforts, or at least it should do. Whilst the fidelity and quality of surround mix of this release is pretty good, the loudness war compression has squeezed any last semblance of warmth and soul out of the album. It's cold, clinical and in places (eg Mouse's Night) downright painful to listen to. I can't give it any more than a six. Very sad.

...and I was there with my brother! absolutely brilliant gig, I really like the BSH fantastic acoustics.

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

...and I was there with my brother! absolutely brilliant gig, I really like the BSH fantastic acoustics.

The sound was Immense! ...where were you sat? I got a few pics from the second tier:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151420960768994.1073741838.591633993&type=1

 

[DuncanS]

The sound was Immense! ...where were you sat? I got a few pics from the second tier:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151420960768994.1073741838.591633993&type=1

At the back, Rear Stalls, Row Z, central, just in front of the mixing & lighting desks, walkway directly behind.

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

We were middle of the back of the second tier. Sound was exceptional.