Grateful Dead in Surround (Dolby Atmos mixes of "American Beauty", "Europe '72" & "Workingman's Dead" now streaming!)

[Blackwood]

Who has checked out the Atmos mix of Europe '72 recently added to Apple Music? Do hope for physical editions of these Dead remixes.

I listened to it the other day. I enjoyed it. I was in the midst of doing other things, so I can’t give a critical review of it. In fact, I don’t think that would ever be my strong-suit compared to others here. With that in mind... to me, it’s a strong 5.1 mix that makes limited use of my rear speakers. Which, for a live album, is fine for me.

If Wilson was accurate when American Beauty went live, we’ll see physical releases which will be an easy pre-order for me.

 

[sjcorne]

With that in mind... to me, it’s a strong 5.1 mix that makes limited use of my rear speakers. Which, for a live album, is fine for me.

That's interesting, as it really sounds like you're in the middle of the performance in 7.1.4. I never would've guessed it's possible to create such an adventurous surround mix from an early-70s live recording.

Lead vocals are in the center channel and the twin rhythm guitars are mostly isolated in the side speakers. Harmony vocals are mixed all throughout the room in interesting ways, with voices sometimes even appearing in the tops. The rear surrounds and rear heights are used primarily for ambience, but there are lot of discrete instruments in the front heights (piano, organ, some lead guitar, etc). I'd guess those are the studio overdubs, as there's little-to-no bleed if you solo the front heights.

 

[Blackwood]

That's interesting, as it really sounds like you're in the middle of the performance in 7.1.4. I never would've guessed it's possible to create such an adventurous surround mix from an early-70s live recording.

Lead vocals are in the center channel and the twin rhythm guitars are mostly isolated in the side speakers. Harmony vocals are mixed all throughout the room in interesting ways, with voices sometimes even appearing in the tops. The rear surrounds and rear heights are used primarily for ambience, but there are lot of discrete instruments in the front heights (piano, organ, some lead guitar, etc). I'd guess those are the studio overdubs, as there's little-to-no bleed if you solo the front heights.

I’m hoping my experience with Atmos changes soon. On my Christmas list in the upcoming Denon AVR-X4800H to replace my AVR-S750H. I’ve already got two height speakers ready to go. I’m too new to Atmos to appreciate how that might change how I’m hearing things.

 

[H.A.L.]

I’m hoping my experience with Atmos changes soon. On my Christmas list in the upcoming Denon AVR-X4800H to replace my AVR-S750H. I’ve already got two height speakers ready to go. I’m too new to Atmos to appreciate how that might change how I’m hearing things.

The Denon is a wonderful amp! I originally had 7.2 with an earlier Denon amp, and converted to 5.2.4 with the AVR-X4800H, and there was just one thing I missed from the old 7.2 setup: the two "wides."

I added those a bit later and only then did it feel "complete." So go for 7.2.4 if you can! The wides still don't seem to match the effects I got with the earlier 7.2, though, as the sound seems confined to a smaller, "inner" soundscape without too much motion from center to far left or right, but the overhead sounds make up for that (for example, swords clanging above you in the Dolby Atmos GAME OF THRONES blu rays).

 

[ted_b]

That's interesting, as it really sounds like you're in the middle of the performance in 7.1.4. I never would've guessed it's possible to create such an adventurous surround mix from an early-70s live recording.

Lead vocals are in the center channel and the twin rhythm guitars are mostly isolated in the side speakers. Harmony vocals are mixed all throughout the room in interesting ways, with voices sometimes even appearing in the tops. The rear surrounds and rear heights are used primarily for ambience, but there are lot of discrete instruments in the front heights (piano, organ, some lead guitar, etc). I'd guess those are the studio overdubs, as there's little-to-no bleed if you solo the front heights.

I fully agree, and currently am listening 5.2.4 (rears will be hooked up and roomperfect rerun soon). I am amazed at how SW could take a live fifty year old recording and put the listener in the middle of the band. I love it. It would have been too easy to put the audience behind us and lay the band out in front of us, like hundreds of live concert videos, etc. Instead, he went IMMERSIVE, and IMHO, it pays off nicely.

 

[marpow]

I’m too new to Atmos to appreciate how that might change how I’m hearing things.

I will add, hearing Atmos is a bit of a mind trip and took me quite awhile to really get it. My brain is wired for stereo and 4.0/5.1 listening.
If I listen to a Mono disc, sitting in my chair looking at my rig, my brain wants to tell me it is stereo because I am looking at sound coming from two speakers. I really have to focus and let the Mono creep in and understand it.
When listening to Atmos, I'm much better now, I could hear the envelope of sound, but was hard for me to hear the sometimes discreteness of the Atmos, if there was any, most Atmos is the envelope of sound anyway.
I also rely on my amps that have meters, I have meters for every speaker which is a little like cheating the listening experience, as I can tell where signals are strong or not, so I guess it is like a crutch for me. If I am really curious I turn off the floor amps, leaving the 4 speaker height amp on and I can hear only what is the top Atmos signal.
Anyway @Blackwood I wish you well in your upcoming Atmos experience.
Sorry for going way off Grateful Dead Topic.

 

[Blackwood]

Thanks for the comments everyone. It does seem that without the heights I’m missing some stuff that others are hearing. Not a surprise, I suppose, but now I’ll be very interested in trying out Europe ’72 again when I get the new receiver.

I’ve been obsessively checking the Denon site every day where the receiver has been marked as Coming Soon. But today it’s gone. I’m hoping that’s because they’re redoing the page as a Released receiver as they appear to have done with some other models. And if that’s the case, this could be a very expensive day.

Back to the Grateful Dead, I would think Workingman’s Dead would be a natural next one to release, but I would love to hear Blues for Allah and Wake of the Flood. And if they can do such a great job with a live release, that would certainly seem to open the door for a lot of live material.

I’m eagerly anticipating an official announcement to see what they have planned.

 

[ted_b]

Yes, my addtl faves I'm waiting on, in no particular order, are:
Working Man's Dead
From The Mars Hotel
Terrapin Station
Blue For Allah

 

[riskylogic]

I fully agree, and currently am listening 5.2.4 (rears will be hooked up and roomperfect rerun soon). I am amazed at how SW could take a live fifty year old recording and put the listener in the middle of the band. I love it. It would have been too easy to put the audience behind us and lay the band out in front of us, like hundreds of live concert videos, etc. Instead, he went IMMERSIVE, and IMHO, it pays off nicely.

When playing live, the Grateful Dead used to have two mikes for each musician - one for concert amps and another that went straight to tape for the purpose of producing their live albums. That means Wilson had multitrack tapes to work with. Also, Wilson just about always mixes some elements to the rears for the many concert videos he has in 5.1. Mostly his own stuff, but he did a Steve Hackett concert video last year and now the Dead.

 

[channelar]

I did comment on this last week on this release over on the main Apple Music/tidal thread. I’ve listened to the complete album 4 times now and love it. The soundstage is relatively fixed with variations in the overdubs, particularly vocals, but sometimes instruments. The third and IMO the best Dead Live (I love typing that) album. From memory the ‘Europe ‘72’ tour was recorded on 16 track provided by the record company and after a quick check on Wikipedia it says….

”The band hoped that the expensive trip to Europe would be financially offset by the release of a live-album documentation of the tour. Consequently, the Dead’s record label, Warner Bros., paid for the band to travel with a professional 16-track recorder.”

So there was plenty to work with. Bring on the Atmos versions of the whole tour and the rest of the Dead catalog. How about one a week? And where are all the Elton albums? What are they waiting for?

 

[sjcorne]

Back to the Grateful Dead, I would think Workingman’s Dead would be a natural next one to release, but I would love to hear Blues for Allah and Wake of the Flood.

Hoping it's Workingman's, if only to hear the harmonies in "Uncle John's Band" spread all around and above.

 

[seremetcc]

Hi. Has anyone checked out this yet? Best Immersive Album consideration?

https://planetdrum.com/planet-drum-for-your-consideration/

 

[Blackwood]

Hi. Has anyone checked out this yet? Best Immersive Album consideration?

https://planetdrum.com/planet-drum-for-your-consideration/

Just listening to this now after seeing you mention it. This is a very nice listen.

I’m not thrilled with the way Apple Music handles playlists and favorites, but this is one I’ve added to my list in Notes to return to in the future.

EDIT: After listening to this the whole way through, I did search to see if there was a physical release. No such luck. But then thought, “This would be perfect for Paul’s Surround Sound series.”

Then I bring myself back to reality and realize we all have a dozen or so titles we think would be perfect for that.

 

[channelar]

I did comment on this last week on this release over on the main Apple Music/tidal thread. I’ve listened to the complete album 4 times now and love it. The soundstage is relatively fixed with variations in the overdubs, particularly vocals, but sometimes instruments. The third and IMO the best Dead Live (I love typing that) album. From memory the ‘Europe ‘72’ tour was recorded on 16 track provided by the record company and after a quick check on Wikipedia it says….

”The band hoped that the expensive trip to Europe would be financially offset by the release of a live-album documentation of the tour. Consequently, the Dead’s record label, Warner Bros., paid for the band to travel with a professional 16-track recorder.”

So there was plenty to work with. Bring on the Atmos versions of the whole tour and the rest of the Dead catalog. How about one a week? And where are all the Elton albums? What are they waiting for?

This is a fabulous review of the Atmos mix of ‘Europe ‘72’ from Immersive Audio Album:
Europe ’72 – The Grateful Dead – Dolby Atmos | IAA . I understand it’s again written by our colleague @sjcorne . Great work getting the news out.

 

[dabl]

What I can't figure out is where the confirmation comes from that SW actually did these Europe '72 mixes.

Note that I'm not saying he didn't, it just seems weird that there is zero mention of it on his official instagram or facebook pages (including the dedicated remixes page that does mention the American Beauty remix), let alone in the Tidal credits (the latter not being a definitive source of truth of course).

 

[Blackwood]

What I can't figure out is where the confirmation comes from that SW actually did these mixes.

Note that I'm not saying he didn't, it just seems weird that there is zero mention of it on his official instagram or facebook pages (including the dedicated remixes page that does mention the American Beauty remix), let alone in the Tidal credits (the latter not being a definitive source of truth of course).

I saw the Europe ’72 mentioned on Twitter, but now I can’t find it.

EDIT: Based on what @sjcorne said, I’m going to hope it was mentioned online and then pulled for some reason, otherwise I’m going to question my sanity. I would have bet money I saw his name tied to it when it hit streaming.

 

[sjcorne]

What I can't figure out is where the confirmation comes from that SW actually did these Europe '72 mixes.

I have direct confirmation that they're his handiwork. There was supposed to be an official announcement on 11/1, I guess it was pushed back?

 

[dabl]

I'm not familiar with the original recording and mix and figure this has been much discussed elsewhere but what I find interesting and appealing about the SW Europe '72 mixes is that the apparent lack of audience mics and hence any appreciable crowd noise/applause seems like a nice license to mix it more like a studio album which I really like. I'm assuming this isn't some kind of radical re-interpretation where SW didn't include any audience mics/crowd noise that might have been there in the original as that wouldn't be like him at all.

 

[JediJoker]

I'm not familiar with the original recording and mix and figure this has been much discussed elsewhere but what I find interesting and appealing about the SW Europe '72 mixes is that the apparent lack of audience mics and hence any appreciable crowd noise/applause seems like a nice license to mix it more like a studio album which I really like. I'm assuming this isn't some kind of radical re-interpretation where SW didn't include any audience mics/crowd noise that might have been there in the original as that wouldn't be like him at all.

It's a typical live Dead recording. Treated more like a studio record than not. I doubt they had dedicated audience mics.

 

[PurpleMoustache]

I'm not familiar with the original recording and mix and figure this has been much discussed elsewhere but what I find interesting and appealing about the SW Europe '72 mixes is that the apparent lack of audience mics and hence any appreciable crowd noise/applause seems like a nice license to mix it more like a studio album which I really like. I'm assuming this isn't some kind of radical re-interpretation where SW didn't include any audience mics/crowd noise that might have been there in the original as that wouldn't be like him at all.

From the Amazon Prime 5 Part doc on the Dead:
Europe 72 was an album they made to fulfill a record contract, a “killing two birds with one stone” deal where they just recorded every show from the Europe 72 show with special recording vans behind the stage with soundboard pickups for (presumably) each instrument.

Then, to fill out the “album” part of it, they whittled down to picks from all across the tour and did studio overdubs for various pieces. Since each Europe 72 show has been officially released, you can compare and contrast each “unaltered” show version with the “studio” version (all the shows should be up on Apple Music)

Likely Steven Wilson had access to the raw recordings as well as the studio overdubs.

That being said, official Dead released shows do tend to be light on the audience aspect. Perhaps you get some near the beginning and end, but it’s usually close to if not entirely a soundboard mix.