HiRez Poll John, Elton - CAPTAIN FANTASTIC.... [SACD]

[fredblue]

everytime I see these Elton SACDs being so highly regarded
(after all these years they still rank among the finest surround music mixes) it makes me even sadder - and madder - to think there's a literal embarrassment of other Classic 70's Elton riches, all remixed into 5.1 by Greg Penny, that are just languishing.. unreleased.

Caribou, Westies, Blue Moves, Don't Shoot Me.. all huge classics, all M.i.A.

3 Number One albums and a (flawed, yet spectacular in places, imho) double set, that marked the end of the first BT/EJ run.

between these 4 albums, there are such notable singles and hits as "Daniel", "Crocodile Rock", "Island Girl", "Sorry Seems To Be The Hardest Word", "The Bitch is Back", "Don't Let The Sun Go Down On Me"..

then there are the standout album tracks from these 4..
"High Flying Bird", "Have Mercy on the Criminal", "I Feel Like A Bullet In The Gun Of Robert Ford",
"Grow Some Funk Of Your Own", "Tonight", "Crazy Water", "One Horse Town", "Idol", "Cage the Songbird", "Ticking"..

then there are the potential bonuses (if these 4 were to follow the format of the preceding classic 5.1 SACDs) of things like "Don't Go Breaking My Heart", "Step Into Christmas", "Pinball Wizard"..

..can you imagine any one of those in surround sound..?

..can you imagine them all..?

I guess we'll have to do just that. imagine.

 

[Quad Linda]

Imagine all the record moguls living for the tunes.
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.
I hope someday you'll join us,
And chase the bastards with a gun.

 

[Blrac]

Another amazing sounding SACD by Sir Elton. 10 from me. And cheap!

 

[blue.monk]

This was one of my first surround disc purchases and years later (after dozens of additional discs purchased) it remains one of my favorites. Captain Fantastic is my favorite EJ album and Greg Penny has created a darn near perfect surround mix. It's an immersive experience that's faithful to the vibe of the original. Great to have Nigel, Dee and Davey's vocals so prominent in the rears along with Ray Cooper's great percussion work. I'm glad Penny doesn't shy away from adding the occasional vocal or instrument that was mixed out of the original (i.e. a backing vocal in "Writing" and Mellotron Strings in "We All Fall..."). What a crime that more classic Elton surround mixes are sitting on the shelf. Well, we had to wait 10 years for "Moondance" so maybe there's hope.

10

 

[IMachine]

I think I gave every Elton John release a 10, because they are all top.

 

[Blrac]

Yes, so far they are as good as any surround disc I own. I very much enjoy them. I have my kids singing along to them they are played so much!

 

[fredblue]

related tangent as I hit the sack.. I'm reminded of a chat I had with a sound engineer one time who said "I never got into SACD or surround, no decent albums by big artists ever came out on them!" ... I countered with "so you wouldn't include Dark Side Of The Moon, Rumours, Hotel California, Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, Brothers in Arms, Ziggy Stardust, A Night At The Opera & Blood On The Tracks as decent albums by big artists then?" @:

 

[bmoura]

This was one of my first surround disc purchases and years later (after dozens of additional discs purchased) it remains one of my favorites. Captain Fantastic is my favorite EJ album and Greg Penny has created a darn near perfect surround mix. It's an immersive experience that's faithful to the vibe of the original. Great to have Nigel, Dee and Davey's vocals so prominent in the rears along with Ray Cooper's great percussion work. I'm glad Penny doesn't shy away from adding the occasional vocal or instrument that was mixed out of the original (i.e. a backing vocal in "Writing" and Mellotron Strings in "We All Fall..."). What a crime that more classic Elton surround mixes are sitting on the shelf. Well, we had to wait 10 years for "Moondance" so maybe there's hope.

10

Agree there. Greg Penny was not shy at all about his Surround Sound mixes!

 

[britre]

It is also the fact there is no "loud vs soft" differential nowadays with mixing. they boost the soft, compress ect.. to make it sound good as an mp3 or in a car or noisy environment. You would believe that since a surround disc most likely was only going to be played in a quiet, well setup and thought out environment manufactures would take the time to mix and transfer properly but als, they same old same old applies. I challenge you all to try this phenomenon with most current stereo recordings also. you will find at lower volumes they sound good, crisp and pronounced.

Why? Remember in the old, old days when we used to record to cassette and monitor the VU meter like a hawk cranking up the lows and leveling the highs and wowee- zowee it sounded awesome in the car and on the boom box? Same effect except now done by software that does not know any better what to boost and level. there is your answer in a nutshell and why most compact discs are the way they are currently. Bring the humans back!

.

I think that is it. That's the way that I see it anyway. At a low volume it sounds pretty...well.....fantastic. However, once cranked, it jangles the nerves. Since I find that the major benefit of hi-rez (other than the surround aspect) is the ability to listen to them at a lot higher volemes than CD's, then these titles are a bit of a lost cause. Anyway, I may try some more of them, who knows.

I agree on your assessment of "Writing". It is the best sounding track on the disc and crankable. "Lucy" is another one that sounds pretty good cranked.

 

[DennisMoore Jr.]

True story: Whenever my brother & I were rockin out in the car, he would immediately jump to turn down the treble all the way, claiming the sound was way too bright...By the sour look on his face, it was indeed painful for him to listen. He turned the treble down more than 12db, claiming that was best. When we would jam, he would have the mix sounding like mud with the treble on all the instruments all the way down and the bass minimized as well. This sounded like total crap, yet he loved it. Point is: we all perceive sound differently.

People's ears are calibrated with amazingly wide differences on what "sounds good" to them.

I've read some very critical things here about the "sound" of Capt. Fantastic being overly bright or what not.

If a person is going to be very critical to that degree, well... it may not be the mix, but the individual's hearing. (edit - or the loud speakers) Recordings like this are not authored with random knob turning. They actually have some pretty sophisticated & well calibrated tools during mixing & when mastering levels are being chosen.

One's home audio system has many powerful equalizing tools to taylor the sound to fit any individual listening preference. These tools can be utilized instead of berating an otherwise outstanding audio release(yes, just my humble $.02 that it is outstanding...)

For my EJ CF review, I had a similar experience to timbre4. I bought CF when it was released on LP record and then I purchased both CD releases. The 5.1 lossless mix blows everything away and has delivered pure audio bliss for me. I played my stereo controls flat. Of particular note is when the mandolins come in toward the latter part of the title track. EJ recorded so many instruments on this record. 5.1 has finally allowed them all to breathe.

Although, ELP, YES, Genesis, Pink Floyd, etc, are more along my tastes, EJ Capt Fantastic may be my favorite start to finish 5.1 mix, when I want to just sit down and be in pure discrete 5.1 heaven. I can't speak highly enough about this 5.1 offering. It got a 10 from me. It is easily in my top three 5.1 releases.

Just for the record: EJ himself has said that Cap't Fantastic was the band's "most progressive" recording...

 

[IMachine]

True story: Whenever my brother & I were rockin out in the car, he would immediately jump to turn down the treble all the way, claiming the sound was way too bright...By the sour look on his face, it was indeed painful for him to listen. He turned the treble down more than 12db, claiming that was best. When we would jam, he would have the mix sounding like mud with the treble on all the instruments all the way down and the bass minimized as well. This sounded like total crap, yet he loved it. Point is: we all perceive sound differently.

People's ears are calibrated with amazingly wide differences on what "sounds good" to them.

I've read some very critical things here about the "sound" of Capt. Fantastic being overly bright or what not.

If a person is going to be very critical to that degree, well... it may not be the mix, but the individual's hearing. (edit - or the loud speakers) Recordings like this are not authored with random knob turning. They actually have some pretty sophisticated & well calibrated tools during mixing & when mastering levels are being chosen.

One's home audio system has many powerful equalizing tools to taylor the sound to fit any individual listening preference. These tools can be utilized instead of berating an otherwise outstanding audio release(yes, just my humble $.02 that it is outstanding...)

For my EJ CF review, I had a similar experience to timbre4. I bought CF when it was released on LP record and then I purchased both CD releases. The 5.1 lossless mix blows everything away and has delivered pure audio bliss for me. I played my stereo controls flat. Of particular note is when the mandolins come in toward the latter part of the title track. EJ recorded so many instruments on this record. 5.1 has finally allowed them all to breathe.

Although, ELP, YES, Genesis, Pink Floyd, etc, are more along my tastes, EJ Capt Fantastic may be my favorite start to finish 5.1 mix, when I want to just sit down and be in pure discrete 5.1 heaven. I can't speak highly enough about this 5.1 offering. It got a 10 from me. It is easily in my top three 5.1 releases.

Just for the record: EJ himself has said that Cap't Fantastic was the band's "most progressive" recording...

I think from now on I will call you Mr. 10!

EJs outputs on 5.1 are all fantastic.
I had to give them all 10s!
Philadelphia Freedom is my 4 years old child's Nr. 1 song!

 

[bmoura]

I think from now on I will call you Mr. 10!

EJs outputs on 5.1 are all fantastic.
I had to give them all 10s!
Philadelphia Freedom is my 4 years old child's Nr. 1 song!

Hmm, I always thought Dudley Moore was "Mr. 10" !

 

[DennisMoore Jr.]

EJs outputs on 5.1 are all fantastic.
I had to give them all 10s!

"I had to give them all 10s!"

I think I will put that in my signature line and I will qoute you!


My little one is 4 and she loves to dance to YES - Awaken. Who would have guessed that one? @:

About the Elton John 5.1 mixes. Yes, I agree. They are all fantastic. I can't imagine them being any better. Crystal clear clarity and great mixes. Basically reference mixes as far as my ear tells me.

 

[IMachine]

My little one is 4 and she loves to dance to YES - Awaken. Who would have guessed that one? @:

How many sweets did you give her?

 

[DennisMoore Jr.]

everytime I see these Elton SACDs being so highly regarded
(after all these years they still rank among the finest surround music mixes) it makes me even sadder - and madder - to think there's a literal embarrassment of other Classic 70's Elton riches, all remixed into 5.1 by Greg Penny, that are just languishing.. unreleased.

Caribou, Westies, Blue Moves, Don't Shoot Me.. all huge classics, all M.i.A.

3 Number One albums and a (flawed, yet spectacular in places, imho) double set, that marked the end of the first BT/EJ run.

between these 4 albums, there are such notable singles and hits as "Daniel", "Crocodile Rock", "Island Girl", "Sorry Seems To Be The Hardest Word", "The Bitch is Back", "Don't Let The Sun Go Down On Me"..

then there are the standout album tracks from these 4..
"High Flying Bird", "Have Mercy on the Criminal", "I Feel Like A Bullet In The Gun Of Robert Ford",
"Grow Some Funk Of Your Own", "Tonight", "Crazy Water", "One Horse Town", "Idol", "Cage the Songbird", "Ticking"..

then there are the potential bonuses (if these 4 were to follow the format of the preceding classic 5.1 SACDs) of things like "Don't Go Breaking My Heart", "Step Into Christmas", "Pinball Wizard"..

Hi Fred

You forgot my favorite from Westies: Billy Bones and the White Bird

Yes, it is tragic that the 4 EJ recordings you listed are in limbo. Has anyone learned exactly why they are shelved?

I do think they will get released one day though...

 

[DennisMoore Jr.]

How many sweets did you give her?

Hahaha, we give her sweets all too aften!

But, she loves prog naturally.

Our most fun was dancing to Glass Hammer - "If" when she was two years old. She loved that!


Hey m8: What do you think of my new sig?

 

[IMachine]

Hahaha, we give her sweets all too aften!

But, she loves prog naturally.

Our most fun was dancing to Glass Hammer - "If" when she was two years old. She loved that!


Hey m8: What do you think of my new sig?

I'm feeling honoured.
I'm looking really forward to vote for The Yes Album.
It will be a lot of fun.

But seriously I imagine to give it a 10, because it's much easier to mix than CTTE.
What makes me kind of sad is, that SW said that he wants to let the sound untouched.

I listened to some SACDs of the High Vibration set and...yes...it is very compressed, but the bass enhancement is really good on some of them.
I wish SW would try to give a little more fatness to the Yes releases.

We will see...

Sorry....off topic...I thought it was the Yes thread....

 

[fredblue]

"Crystal clear clarity and great mixes. Basically reference mixes as far as my ear tells me.

".. we're caught up in a web, you and I, since Crystal came between us.."

rumours in EJ fandom were going around years ago that GP & co. were eyeing the "Too Low For Zero" (hence the "Crystal" reference), "Here & There" and "Live In Australia" albums for inclusion in the 3rd batch of 5.1 SACDs.. previous rumours insinuated the title track at least from the "Made In England" album was remixed into 5.1 by GP (other rumours suggest he remixed the whole album before he got the gig to proverbially "do the lot" in Surround at Elton's behest!).. plus the "Songs From The West Coast" album was transferred from analogue to DSD for stereo SACD in 2002 and got shelved.. plus Matt Still allegedly remixed "The Captain & The Kid" into 5.1.. that's a whole lot of unreleased Elton Hi-Rez & Surround beyond the criminal cancellations of the Caribou, Blue Moves, Westies & Don't Shoot Me SACDs... just thinking about it makes me want to spit blood..!!!! :flame

 

[blue.monk]

Caribou, Blue Moves, Westies & Don't Shoot Me SACDs... just thinking about it makes me want to spit blood..!!!! :flame

You and me both, brother!

 

[fredblue]

Hi Fred

You forgot my favorite from Westies: Billy Bones and the White Bird

Yes, it is tragic that the 4 EJ recordings you listed are in limbo. Has anyone learned exactly why they are shelved?

I do think they will get released one day though...

Hi Dennis

how could I forget Billy Bones!? Silly Billy me!

shelved I guess because they got caught up in the Sony SACD withdrawal bail out politics DualDisc balls up kershizzle that also saw huge albums from acts like The Killers & Maroon 5 similarly cancelled as 5.1 SACD releases.. disastrous times for surround when you look back

maybe one day.. but it's been a long day coming! who'll want Reg Strikes the Back speakers 10/20 years from now!? NO-ONE! either Universal get these surround mixes out now or it's all over! (imho)