HiRez Poll King Crimson - Red [DVD-Audio/Blu-Ray Audio]

[Almen]

...it appears very much that the new stereo remaster of Red (on the CD) is simply the previous edition (30th./HDCD) made a tad louder.
---
FWIW, the previous version of Red (title track) peaked at -0.89 dBFS, the new one exploits that little bit of headroom by peaking at -0.09 dBFS. I bought these discs almost entirely for the surround and bonus material, so this is not a big deal to me. But it could be off-pissing to some if the only significant difference in the remastered 2-track was normalization to a slightly higher peak level.

Thanks for the info. Have you checked if the average level is increased as well?

Edited: Or, what I meant was if the crest factor is increased.

 

[The Rang]

Help me clarify.....if the the CD of Red is basically the same as the 30th Anniversary remaster, does the same thing apply to the the stereo tracks on the DVD-A?

I hope not....I'd be buying these discs more for the 2 channel than 5.1 (yes, I know this is a Quad Forum ).
If the the 2 channel on DVD-A is simply the 1999 remaster then I'll need to rethink whether or not to get these.

 

[wavelength]

Help me clarify.....if the the CD of Red is basically the same as the 30th Anniversary remaster, does the same thing apply to the the stereo tracks on the DVD-A?

According to this site, Court and Lizard contain new 2009 stereo hi-rez mixes.
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=156369348&blogId=500169844

 

[neil wilkes]

Help me clarify.....if the the CD of Red is basically the same as the 30th Anniversary remaster, does the same thing apply to the the stereo tracks on the DVD-A?

I hope not....I'd be buying these discs more for the 2 channel than 5.1 (yes, I know this is a Quad Forum ).
If the the 2 channel on DVD-A is simply the 1999 remaster then I'll need to rethink whether or not to get these.

The stereo tracks on the DVDA are as follows:
Main Album - 30th anniversary edition master, re-transferred at 24/96 & 24/48 (for Video_TS).
4 bonus tracks at 24/96 MLP & 24/48 LPCM
Also, there is 30 minutes of footage from Melody TV in 1974, with 24-bit audio
So there is a lot more here than just the new 5.1 mix. Still, it's your call - and this is why there are no box sets here as the idea is that not everyone will want to buy every title. Plus, of course, we still do not know just where this will all stop yet!!

Certain titles will have new stereo mixes by Robert & Steven, but not all.
Where there is a new stereo version made, the 30th anniversary remasters will also be included.

 

[G E]

RED turned up on Saturday, by Royal Mail no less, so I rolled back the clock to 1974 and settled in with a couple bottles of Yukon Arctic RED ale. The "warm up bands" were two Bowie records with extensive work by RF: Scary Monsters sacd and Heroes us RCA 1st pressing. These are great records! Do you think RF could whisper in Mr. Bowie's ear and suggest hi-res surround makeovers? He did it with Stage and Live. His other DTS offerings are pretty good, but give me the bits!

I digress.

They did a nice job on the release of RED: The disc is one of those digipak cases and it slides into an outer sleeve/box. The paperstock for both sleeve and slipcase is glossy - just like the album sleeves for the UK import LPs we cherished back then. Nice touch ! I am not bothered by a loose insert - in order to preserve the digipack and sleeve I will store the disc in a jewel case and put the insert in that. End of problem.

Menu has an animated VU meter facsimile as found on the back of the original RED lp, and yes, the needle pushes into the "RED" scale. The animated menu text looks like the "card" tilts flat when you make a selection. Nice effect. I didn't think the delay between selection click and action was very noticeable. Nothing like Kamakiriad dvd-a.

Sound: Very good overall, some songs better than others. The song RED sounds a tad hard but it sounds that way on my 1st pressing UK elpee. The rest of the disc was better, particularly the songs on "side 2" Providence" and Starless. This recording just doesn't have the dynamic range of LTiA or SaBB or Islands. Providence was probably my favorite on the record! Interesting in that i usually skipped over this song in prior playings of the LP. Much more engaging here, which provides a segue into my impreesion of the surround:

Surround - Atmospheric - vastly opens up the soundscape. No production gimmicks like sounds walking around the soundfield (although there was one instance of this in the Trio version of RED - one of the extras". And I do enjoy an active soundfield such as found in the productions of In Abstentia and Flaming Lips stuff, it can be a lot of fun. I betappropriate use of sound movement in certain sections of LTiA would be very cool- oh yes!) Surround field is particularly effective with Providence.

Extras: there are several trio versions of the songs that are fun to hear, but of high interest is the video from French tv. Sound is mono and it is very good. Once in a while you can hear some mutliplex distortion (remember hearing it on VHS tapes ??) but otherwise great for the age. The original producers did some irritating video special effects that reminded me of the stuff we did in high school and even junior high when they turned us loose with the cameras and recorders and stuff. But this is a minor quibble.. The tunes are from LTiA and SaBB.

Conclusion: An excellent example of reinvigorating a middling example in the ambitious canon of KC. And when I say middling, it is only in comparison to the creative peaks achieved in other recordings, including the live stuff. This has always been a bittersweet recording for me as it came at the time of the band's implosion, KC would not resurface until quite a few years later. I am very happy to make its reacquaintance in this production!

I look forward to ItCotCK which I probably have never properly heard (my lp was a Record Club of America pressing --- little did I know at the time that they pressed many of their own records... and not well either.) It will be a difficult wait for SaBB, LTiA. and Discipline. These are some of the great ones in the catalog, but I will get them all. This will likely be a limited engagement for these productions. Get 'em while you can. You will be sorry later if you don't.

And a big Thank You to all those who are making these productions happen. I never would have guessed that I would experience hi-rez surround recordings of KC, and ones done so well. Mr. Bowie, Mr. Ferry - please pick up where you left off and bring out your back catalogs in hi-rez surround!

ge

 

[G E]

[dupe post]

 

[Almen]

I got it yesterday, and only listened through it all once, but I can say that I am very, very, pleased. :sun As always, when awaiting a favourite album in a new revision, it is with equal amount anticipation and nervousness, lest the hacks handling the record decides on some horrid solutions to either mixing, mastering, or menus.

Not so now! Wonderful package, fantastic extra material, and a beautiful mix, carefully mastered. :banana: I have listened to this album so much, and know every single stroke, and yet the new surround mix makes the music clearer, not only soundwise, but also in the understanding of the music itself. I was afraid that the multichannel mix might divide the band, and "un-tighten" the playing, but it was the opposite.

Especially Providence, which always demands a lot from the listener, and on some occasions (I am not ashamed to admit) has been skipped, finds new clarity, with more of a live ambience and the violin standing out as a source of energy. I am really looking forward to USA in surround...

This might be my first 10, but I will give it some more listenings to keep this breathless fanboy from doing something stupid.

 

[The Rang]

The stereo tracks on the DVDA are as follows:
Main Album - 30th anniversary edition master, re-transferred at 24/96 & 24/48 (for Video_TS).

Thanks for the clarification

Does re-transferring at 24/96 improve the sound quality of the 30th Anniversary masters?

 

[timbre4]

The Video extras

Wow, this was the era of King Crimson that turned my head! In early 1974, I was exposed to Starless And Bible Black which I gobbled up and then In The Court Of The Crimson King on a nice vinyl rig of the day. Tickets? Hell yes we're going to see this band in Los Angeles, marking my 3rd concert after ELP a couple months prior. So this video was recorded about 3 months before we saw them live...

This video looks better than I expected and the sound was more than adequate given the circumstances. I know that every effort was made by Neil, Patrick et al to have this material look and sound as good as it possibly could, muck like the care afforded the rest of this special package. LTIA pt 2 starts the program in the more muscular form it had taken on by this time, akin to the version on USA. Fripp spends a great deal of time looking directly into the camera! This is in direct contrast to later years, practically hiding on stage (Bowie, Gabriel, etc). During the 2008 KC tour he was rarely ever visible...

Next tune begins with an improv I'd never heard an inkling of before (hey they're different every time) before working into The Night Watch. This is the tune that featured some dated color effects on the band footage but is still quite watchable. They do a fine job on this one. Lament is a favorite tune and it starts rather quiet and then jars the listener pretty good as it goes along. Have always loved the Richard Palmer James lyrics and Wetton's delivery of them is great.

So one from LTIA and a pair from SABB; next we get what was then an unrecorded tune with multiple sections called simply 'Starless'. I'm amazed to see it this early on as I'd thought it first started showing up later during the US tour. It missed being on Starless and Bible Black but not by that much. These are not the final lyrics of course and some of the arrangements are slightly different but the principal strengths that later appear on Red in more refined form are evident here.

I smiled because I knew that I could now revisit this many times in the future. Still miss my Robert Fripp - Carefule With That Axe laserdisc because it contained some US tour film footage (snippets) that I believe was shot by Atlantic Records. MAYBE that will be in SABB video extras? Fingers crossed.

 

[TennJed]

Funny, Red was what me got into King Crimson, and I haven't listened to it in a good couple years. Guess I'll order the DVD to check it out again.

The reason I got into King Crimson and I'm sure the majority of people from my generation is the numerous comparisons they get to the band TOOL. Also the kick *** artwork on ITCOTK looks great and stands out from most other vinyls. But I digress, can't wait for it to come in.

 

[simonwagstaff]

The reason I got into King Crimson and I'm sure the majority of people from my generation is the numerous comparisons they get to the band TOOL.

Who?



Talkin' bought my generation.

From what I understand Tool is more similar to the later Crimson. Earlier Crimson is much different. I still look at Red as a watershed album that presages what is to come, much later. Court, Islands, Starless, Lizard and most especially Larks' Tongues are the albums I grew up with.

got them on order and can't wait. I am expecting court to be quite the revelation a we have never had a transfer from the master tapes before and I expect that my previous disappointment with the sound of that album will be resolved, but that is another thread.

 

[TennJed]

Sorry should of specified, Red is what influenced Tool the most... Even the opener to ITCOTK, is very toolesque. Large heavy riffs...

But then again i'm sure alot of heavier music was influenced by them and good 'ol Sabbath.

 

[nhammond]

I don't know King Crimson's music much, so this serie will be a chance to discover their music. I was just a big fan of Adrian Belew when his first solo album, The Lone Rhino, came out!

Now, back to Red. Great fidelity. Great surround mix. I just find the music a bit... wild

Overall, a 9 for me...

I also received ITCOTCK, and I'm waiting for Lizard (already pre-ordered)

 

[BananaSlug]

...I just find the music a bit... wild

I'm holding off on my vote for now. But, if I had to review it now I would say long and boring (it could use more wild). I like the music, it just seems like they took a couple of good ideas and didn't know when to stop. Red is the perfect example, the music sticks with me and I find myself humming it. But when I sit down to listen, it feels like they should have stopped, maybe half way through, before it became too repetitive. I'll give it a few more listens before deciding if that's really what I think. I am interested in what you find wild about it though, maybe we're using the word in a different way?

 

[simonwagstaff]

I now OFFICIALLY feel like an old geezer. I always wondered what that would be like.

Thank you for that.

 

[wavelength]

With the possible exception of Fallen Angel, these are more like soundscapes than songs. The music just flows out and your ears follow. Highlight so far: the cymbals on Starless at the 6-7 min mark - man they sound big. My appreciation grows and grows. It's great having music like nothing else I own. It doesn't imitate anything.

 

[kap'n krunch]

I finally got around to listening to the MLP 96/24 Stereo tracks.

Personally, I'd preferred to have a 96/24 5.1 stream , even if it had been DTS.

The MLP 5.1 mixes are missing some of the "air" I hear in the MLP Stereo ones...

Still the 48/24 is better than nothing....

 

[wavelength]

Personally, I'd preferred to have a 96/24 5.1 stream , even if it had been DTS.

The way I look at is everything Steve Wilson has been involved with, 5.1 wise, has been 48/24. And he's the guy who has been putting out the surround discs. Just about everything new in 5.1 has been SW related. So if he wants to do 48/24 then I say more power to him. He must have his reasons and I'd hate to discourage him from putting out more new stuff.

 

[ssully]

So one from LTIA and a pair from SABB; next we get what was then an unrecorded tune with multiple sections called simply 'Starless'. I'm amazed to see it this early on as I'd thought it first started showing up later during the US tour. It missed being on Starless and Bible Black but not by that much. These are not the final lyrics of course and some of the arrangements are slightly different but the principal strengths that later appear on Red in more refined form are evident here.

Some of Starless's alternate lyrics eventually ended up in the UK tune called 'Caesar's Palace Blues'.

 

[ssully]

I finally got around to listening to the MLP 96/24 Stereo tracks.

Personally, I'd preferred to have a 96/24 5.1 stream , even if it had been DTS.

The MLP 5.1 mixes are missing some of the "air" I hear in the MLP Stereo ones...

Still the 48/24 is better than nothing....

I'm going to guess that 48 kHz was chosen as the common sample rate for the various versions on these discs because it's also a very common default rate in 'digital out' soundcards, and of course all DVD players.

I have no complaints about that; I seriously do not believe anyone is going to be hearing a difference between 48 kHz and 96kHz SR with this material, in a blind test.

As for missing 'air', it's problematic to compare surround and 2-channel mixes. 'Air' is often much to do with loudspeaker/room interaction effects -- which are vastly different for 2ch vs 5.1. Surround typically masks more of the room contributions.