Marantz AVR issues with DSOTM Atmos {Pls read first post)

[César]

Problem statement: Marantz AVRs (need to confirm it’s only for this brand) incorrectly play the DSOTM Atmos test tones and music on the height speakers. Information on the rear height channels is played at the same time on front and rear height channels. Issue was detected with DSOTM blu-ray because it has got the test tones, but we cannot know if this problem is happening with any other blu-rays or streaming content in Atmos.
Two users reported the problem so far, and both have in common that Auro-3D is enabled in the AVR and rear height speakers are configured as SHL and SHR (Auro-3D recommended configuration) as opposite to RHL and RHR (Atmos recommendation).

In my case, when configuring the rear height speakers as RHL and RHR, the AVR test tones work perfectly in all speakers, but any real Atmos content (no matter if it’s streaming or Blu-ray, real songs or test tones) is only played through the front height speakers. All content sent to the rear height speakers is not played. Restoring the configuration to SHL/SHR makes all test tones and Atmos content to be played fine (apart from DSOTM).

This behavior puzzles me, as despite the usage of SHL and SHR is a recommended configuration, I believe the regular configuration for Atmos based on RHL and RHR should work.

I even tried to disable Auro-3D and then configure again the rear speakers as RHL and RHR or THL/THR and Atmos is only played in FHR/FHL or THR/THL.
I haven’t tried to restore to factory default settings the AVR or running Audyssey after changing the Amp assign, but as I get the same behavior with and without Audyssey, I don’t think this should have any impact.

My request here for all Marantz/DSOTM owners would be to fill in the form below:
• Marantz AVR model (mine is SR7011)
• Do you have Auro-3D enabled? Y/N (in my case is Y)
• Do you have regular height speakers or in-ceiling (top) speakers? Mine are regular height speakers
• Which configuration do you have for rear height speakers? RHL/RHR or SHL/SHR? I have SHL/SHR, but my rear speakers are located on top of the surrounds back (less than 5º behind the listening spot)
• Does DSOTM test tones play correctly in the rear heights for you? As I commented, test tones aimed only for the rears, are played at the same time in the fronts and rears

Let’s see if we can get to any conclusion based on the survey. Hopefully is some misconfiguration on my side and not a SW bug.

 

[Surroundaholic]

Placeholder for the Marantz issues with Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon Atmos (height speakers). I'll explain the situation in a longer post.

I had a chance to play the test on my system (Yamaha). The issue I had previously I have now identified as the pink noise not being played when I manually switch tracks. When I play both the voice and pink noise and am not impatient they all play correctly. Looks like it might be a Marantz issue after all.

 

[DuncanS]

So I have a Denon AVC-X8500HA and a 5.0 bed and 4x Heights. Denon & Marantz brands are owned by the same company Sound United.

I tried the audio positioning test on the Dark Side BD and it works OK, so front & centre OK, rear sides & surrounds both come out of my rear floorstanders as expected, the heights are correct.

 

[César]

So I have a Denon AVC-X8500HA and a 5.0 bed and 4x Heights. Denon & Marantz brands are owned by the same company Sound United.

I tried the audio positioning test on the Dark Side BD and it works OK, so front & centre OK, rear sides & surrounds both come out of my rear floorstanders as expected, the heights are correct.

Hey, do you have Auro license? How are your rear heights configured, as RHR/RHL or SHR/SHL?
Thanks!

 

[JohnN]

So I have a Denon AVC-X8500HA and a 5.0 bed and 4x Heights. Denon & Marantz brands are owned by the same company Sound United.

I tried the audio positioning test on the Dark Side BD and it works OK, so front & centre OK, rear sides & surrounds both come out of my rear floorstanders as expected, the heights are correct.

Same test results with Yamaha Aventage A2A (with new/changed HDMI model).

 

[himey]

Same test results with Yamaha Aventage A2A (with new/changed HDMI model).

Settings?

 

[JohnN]

Settings?

7.1 straight. 2 heights and 2 rear channels.

 

[DuncanS]

Hey, do you have Auro license? How are your rear heights configured, as RHR/RHL or SHR/SHL?
Thanks!

No Auro license, and the heights are FHR/FHL & RHR/RHL

 

[ar surround]

My request here for all Marantz/DSOTM owners would be to fill in the form below:
• Marantz AVR model (mine is SR7011)
• Do you have Auro-3D enabled? Y/N (in my case is Y)
• Do you have regular height speakers or in-ceiling (top) speakers? Mine are regular height speakers
• Which configuration do you have for rear height speakers? RHL/RHR or SHL/SHR? I have SHL/SHR, but my rear speakers are located on top of the surrounds back (less than 5º behind the listening spot)
• Does DSOTM test tones play correctly in the rear heights for you? As I commented, test tones aimed only for the rears, are played at the same time in the fronts and rears

- Marantz AVR model: SR7013. Set-up is 7.1.4
- Auro 3D enabled: YES
- Height Speakers - Regular Height Speakers installed for Atmos
- Configuration for Rear Height Speakers: RHL/RHR
- Does DSOTM test tones play correctly in the rear heights: NO. The front height test tones (both the voice and pink noise) play in both the front and rear speakers and so do the rear height test tones. However, there is enough of a volume difference between the front and rear heights such that what is happening is not apparent when seated in the MLP. It is only apparent when I move to the speaker that is NOT supposed to be playing.

When the FHL and FHR are measured using the DSOTM test tones, they measure +4 dB too loud...possibly because the rear heights are also engaged. However, the RHL and RHR measure 0 dB even thought both the front and rear heights are engaged. This is very strange.

I have not noticed any problems when playing Atmos music tracks.

Here is a photo of my setup with the height speakers clearly shown. The VOG center speaker is also shown.

 

[César]

Well, three different configurations so far (mine, @DuncanS , @ar surround ) and the only item in common that may cause the issue (as far as I can tell) is the Auro license.
I'm really interesting in knowing if anyone with Auro license in place and a Marantz/Denon AVR is getting the DSOTM test tones properly played.

 

[ar surround]

I don't know what the problem is with the DSOTM test tone files; but there most definitely is an issue there.

I used the test tones from this site this morning and everything with my system is exactly as it should be.

https://www.demolandia.net/cinema/dolby-demo-trailers-hd/page-10.html

Edit: Adding a table with various results of test files tried on my system just for reference:

 

[César]

I don't know what the problem is with the DSOTM test tone files; but there most definitely is an issue there.

I used the test tones from this site this morning and everything with my system is exactly as it should be.

https://www.demolandia.net/cinema/dolby-demo-trailers-hd/page-10.html

All the other test tones I've used work fine, apart from DSOTM ones. But so far, only users with Marantz and Auro have complained, so I guess it's something very particular of the Atmos encoding of this Blu-ray that it's not well treated by our AVRs

 

[barfle]

As I understand it, Atmos is not channel-defined, it is object oriented, so every decoded Atmos object is placed in a phantom location, steering the sound with the available ceiling speakers based on the receiver’s understanding of the room it is in from a miked setup process. So having test tones assigned to a particular overhead speaker would not be a valid test for Atmos configuration.

That being said, I don’t have Atmos and have never heard a good demo of it. Looking forward to eventually incorporating it into my room, though.

 

[MrSmithers]

Just to confirm another lab rat...

I have a Marantz SR7015 and just played the Speaker ID test tones. Each speaker comes out as it should - except for the Left Top Front & Right Top Front, which also come out in the Rear Height channels on each side at that point. I have Auro 3D setup enabled...

 

[César]

Just to confirm another lab rat...

I have a Marantz SR7015 and just played the Speaker ID test tones. Each speaker comes out as it should - except for the Left Top Front & Right Top Front, which also come out in the Rear Height channels on each side at that point. I have Auro 3D setup enabled...

And do your rear hight channels come only in the rear heights?

 

[César]

As I understand it, Atmos is not channel-defined, it is object oriented, so every decoded Atmos object is placed in a phantom location, steering the sound with the available ceiling speakers based on the receiver’s understanding of the room it is in from a miked setup process. So having test tones assigned to a particular overhead speaker would not be a valid test for Atmos configuration.

That being said, I don’t have Atmos and have never heard a good demo of it. Looking forward to eventually incorporating it into my room, though.

You can always understand a test tone like an object to be placed on a single spot in the surround sphere (precisely in the test speaker).
In the end, the object encoding has to be translated into a discrete analog signal sent to every speaker... whose combination return an "object" placed somewhere in your listening space

 

[MrSmithers]

And do your rear hight channels come only in the rear heights?

Yep that's exactly it...

 

[ar surround]

As I understand it, Atmos is not channel-defined, it is object oriented, so every decoded Atmos object is placed in a phantom location, steering the sound with the available ceiling speakers based on the receiver’s understanding of the room it is in from a miked setup process. So having test tones assigned to a particular overhead speaker would not be a valid test for Atmos configuration.

That being said, I don’t have Atmos and have never heard a good demo of it. Looking forward to eventually incorporating it into my room, though.

While Atmos as an object based system, the location of any object is still ultimately defined by the relative volume levels of the individual speakers. Therefore, a test tone should be able to be defined and located by the volume of a certain speaker with all of the other speakers having -0- volume.
Also, when playing the Demolandia test tone file, the AVR clearly sees them as Dolby Atmos.

 

[César]

Yep that's exactly it...

Oh my, that's exactly the opposite behaviour as what my AVR is doing

 

[barfle]

You can always understand a test tone like an object to be placed on a single spot in the surround sphere (precisely in the test speaker).
In the end, the object encoding has to be translated into a discrete analog signal sent to every speaker... whose combination return an "object" placed somewhere in your listening space

Again, as I understand it, the idea that an object could be placed in an individual speaker where all objects are placed in phantom positions is a contradiction. Although Dolby has recommended speaker positioning, they are not exact locations, so positioning an object in an xy plane would have to be calculated from the locations in a particular room. It’s possible that one or more of those positions would be in the same location as a speaker, but I don’t see that as a hard-encoded channel in an object oriented system.

We’re used to mono, stereo, 5.1, 7.1, and those are all channel-based systems. Many recordings have test tones that go to a specific speaker, but Atmos is not channel-based, so a discrete placement IN A SINGLE SPEAKER seems contradictory, at least to my retired A/V engineer brain.