Matrix H Articles

[fizzywiggs41]

Decodes well in Involve 4.0 (QS mode) with the SM2, much more adventurous mix than the Genesis Knebworth Quad broadcast. I recorded this originally on cassette about a year before I got my Akai 4000DS R-to-R, and if it was repeated I missed it!

Yes, I always thought this was one of the better MATRIX H quad programs produced from 1977.

 

[kfbkfb]

I listened to this Matrix H content w/DPL2 music earlier today, surround effect was OK, I'll head upstairs and try it w/DynaQuad system later.


Kirk Bayne

 

[par4ken]

I listened to this Matrix H content w/DPL2 music earlier today, surround effect was OK, I'll head upstairs and try it w/DynaQuad system later.


Kirk Bayne

I wouldn't expect much, it needs that phase shift corrected first. You could download it and then shift the right channel phase by 60° in software. It should then decode much like QS.

 

[kfbkfb]

Sliding OT...however...did the BBC ever promote the use of the DynaQuad/passive speaker matrix decoding method as an easy way to get (a partial) surround decode of Matrix H broadcasts?


Kirk Bayne

 

[par4ken]

Sliding OT...however...did the BBC ever promote the use of the DynaQuad/passive speaker matrix decoding method as an easy way to get (a partial) surround decode of Matrix H broadcasts?


Kirk Bayne

I don't know. That would likely produce a phasy mess, but it might still sound good? Do you have an article that where that method of decoding is suggested?

 

[kfbkfb]

I haven't read about any DynaQuad decoding suggestions for Matrix H, but it might have helped if listeners could knew they could experience surround sound so inexpensively.


Kirk Bayne

 

[Soundfield]

Sliding OT...however...did the BBC ever promote the use of the DynaQuad/passive speaker matrix decoding method as an easy way to get (a partial) surround decode of Matrix H broadcasts?
Kirk Bayne

No. The advice offered to the general public was to use a Matrix H decoder. The only instructional article ever widely published outside of the technical journals was the brief system introduction in the Radio Times of April 1977-

At which time there were effectively no commercial Matrix H decoders available!

 

[par4ken]

No. The advice offered to the general public was to use a Matrix H decoder. The only instructional article ever widely published outside of the technical journals was the brief system introduction in the Radio Times of April 1977-

View attachment 79549

At which time there were effectively no commercial Matrix H decoders available!

Reminds me of AM stereo. Every station was hyping it but almost nobody had a receiver, they just weren't available!

 

[barfle]

As my cassette tape of this is flood damaged & unplayable I thought great. Unfortunately to do a download (in the UK anyway) YouTube wants you to sign up for the 'free' service which needs a credit card number, then automatically grabs £11.99 a month if you forget, which I would! - inertial selling, ugh!

I grab the occasional youtube piece with a program called wondershare.

 

[Soundfield]

I grab the occasional youtube piece with a program called wondershare.

I used to use those video capture programs but found they were not a long term solution. Sites such as YouTube regularly make subtle changes to their coding algorithms to deliberately defeat such things. One week they work the next they don’t.

I have used a hardware HDMI recorder for some years now. Copies anything on the PC’s HDMI output to a USB stick in hi res MP4 with a single push of a button.

 

[barfle]

I used to use those video capture programs but found they were not a long term solution. Sites such as YouTube regularly make subtle changes to their coding algorithms to deliberately defeat such things. One week they work the next they don’t.

I have used a hardware HDMI recorder for some years now. Copies anything on the PC’s HDMI output to a USB stick in hi res MP4 with a single push of a button.

HTML cloner is part of my hardware collection. I can’t say the video quality is top-notch, but I’m able to record the occasional TV show that way. FWIW, wondershare will also record whatever is on your PC screen.

 

[MidiMagic]

Let's look at the differences in the systems.

This is the right-side view of the Poincare sphere (which Scheiber used and named the quadraphonic use for matrix after himself).

Left ch is cyan, right ch is red, inphase (lateral stylus) is olive, antiphase is violet, clockwise (stylus) is black, anticlockwise is brown.

A matrix can be defined on the sphere by stating a locus of points on the sphere for a trip around the room, clockwise beginning at front.
A great circle matrix is one that follows a circle of the greatest diameter around the sphere.

Regular matrix (EV, QS, DQ Ddi) is a great circle matrix with the clockwise room loci: olive-red-violet-cyan-olive.
Denon BMX and UD4 baseband make a great circle matrix with loci: black-red-brown-cyan-black.
Matrix H is a great circle matrix with loci: tan-red-blue-cyan-tan.

SQ is not a great circle matrix. It has loci: olive-red-brown-violet-black-cyan-olive.
UHJ is not a great circle matrix. It has loci: green-near_red-purple-near_cyan-green.

Playing the H recording in QS or RM has a reduction in F to B separation. It also has all of the phasiness of playing the recording in stereo.
Playing the QS or RM recording in H has a reduction in F to B separation. It also has all of the phasiness of playing an H recording in stereo.
Playing the H recording in UHJ works fairly well, with reduced separations all around.
Playing the UHJ recording in H works fairly well, with reduced separations all around.
Playing the UHJ recording in QS or RM had good front, but vague back.

Playing a BMX or UD4 baseband recording in QS or RM has no front to back separation at all.
Playing a QS or RM recording in BMX or UD4 has no front to back separation at all.

Playing a BMX or UD4 baseband recording in SQ works if you move the LB speaker to F and the RB speaker to B. Reverse the phase of the LB speaker.
Playing a UHJ recording in SQ works if you connect both LB and RB speakers to the RB channel.

 

[kfbkfb]

"Regular matrix (EV, QS, DQ Ddi)..."
"Playing the H recording in QS or RM..."


Matrix H played thru 3 speaker passive DynaQuad?

I'm still amazed that the passive Hafler surround sound system wasn't promoted more, it could have helped introduce people to surround sound and might have been enough for some people, the (uncommitted to quad) record companies might have monitored their stereo mixes w/DynaQuad and included a little surround content too.


Kirk Bayne

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Matrix H played thru 3 speaker passive DynaQuad?

I'm still amazed that the passive Hafler surround sound system wasn't promoted more, it could have helped introduce people to surround sound and might have been enough for some people, the (uncommitted to quad) record companies might have monitored their stereo mixes w/DynaQuad and included a little surround content too.


Kirk Bayne

Actually Alan Freeman ,used to announce that he would go into the studio and listen "on the cans" .(headphones)

 

[DuncanS]

Actually Alan Freeman ,used to announce that he would go into the studio and listen "on the cans" .(headphones)

Alan "Fluff" Freeman, great BBC Radio 1 Rock DJ many a Saturday afternoon spent listening to him, and Black Sabbath wrote "Fluff" (on Sabbath Bloody Sabbath) as a a dedication to him

 

[kfbkfb]

Just listened to the BBC Matrix H YouTube audio (via my Fire 7 tablet) thru my sub-sub-optimum DynaQuad system,
it had more of a surround effect than my DPL2 music decoding on my basement system.

The stereo effect seemed reasonable (not noticeably phasy) and the L-R surround channel had distinct content several times during all 4 songs.


Kirk Bayne

 

[Marcsten]

"Regular matrix (EV, QS, DQ Ddi)..."
"Playing the H recording in QS or RM..."


Matrix H played thru 3 speaker passive DynaQuad?

I'm still amazed that the passive Hafler surround sound system wasn't promoted more, it could have helped introduce people to surround sound and might have been enough for some people, the (uncommitted to quad) record companies might have monitored their stereo mixes w/DynaQuad and included a little surround content too.


Kirk Bayne

Well on the hardware side, for pretty much all the years quad was active, and for a few more years afterwards, synthesized quad was offered in everything from lowly compact stereo systems and nearly all Radio Shack receivers, to name a few options. Radio Shack's official line after CBS pulled the plug on SQ was that they would produce 'quatravox' enhance system in their receivers, claiming that was the future of surround once real surround was no longer being released. I believe others did the same for a while. It is a shame that record producers never mixed their stereo records to perform better in these enhance systems. Would have been better than nothing. In 1979 I got my Audionics Composer and that became the enhance of choice for me.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Just listened to the BBC Matrix H YouTube audio (via my Fire 7 tablet) thru my sub-sub-optimum DynaQuad system,
it had more of a surround effect than my DPL2 music decoding on my basement system.

The stereo effect seemed reasonable (not noticeably phasy) and the L-R surround channel had distinct content several times during all 4 songs.


Kirk Bayne

I suggest you try QS with that 60(58)%degree shift that Ken recommended. That is exactly what I used., Sansui QSD2 with Ken's little adjustment box for both H and HJ .

And thanks again Ken. ☺

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Let's look at the differences in the systems.

This is the right-side view of the Poincare sphere (which Scheiber used and named the quadraphonic use for matrix after himself).


View attachment 79553


Left ch is cyan, right ch is red, inphase (lateral stylus) is olive, antiphase is violet, clockwise (stylus) is black, anticlockwise is brown.

A matrix can be defined on the sphere by stating a locus of points on the sphere for a trip around the room, clockwise beginning at front.
A great circle matrix is one that follows a circle of the greatest diameter around the sphere.

Regular matrix (EV, QS, DQ Ddi) is a great circle matrix with the clockwise room loci: olive-red-violet-cyan-olive.
Denon BMX and UD4 baseband make a great circle matrix with loci: black-red-brown-cyan-black.
Matrix H is a great circle matrix with loci: tan-red-blue-cyan-tan.

SQ is not a great circle matrix. It has loci: olive-red-brown-violet-black-cyan-olive.
UHJ is not a great circle matrix. It has loci: green-near_red-purple-near_cyan-green.

Playing the H recording in QS or RM has a reduction in F to B separation. It also has all of the phasiness of playing the recording in stereo.
Playing the QS or RM recording in H has a reduction in F to B separation. It also has all of the phasiness of playing an H recording in stereo.
Playing the H recording in UHJ works fairly well, with reduced separations all around.
Playing the UHJ recording in H works fairly well, with reduced separations all around.
Playing the UHJ recording in QS or RM had good front, but vague back.

Playing a BMX or UD4 baseband recording in QS or RM has no front to back separation at all.
Playing a QS or RM recording in BMX or UD4 has no front to back separation at all.

Playing a BMX or UD4 baseband recording in SQ works if you move the LB speaker to F and the RB speaker to B. Reverse the phase of the LB speaker.
Playing a UHJ recording in SQ works if you connect both LB and RB speakers to the RB channel.

Your missing one format ,MidiMagic........45j .

 

[kfbkfb]

I actually have very little matrix encoded content (Stereo-4, QS, SQ, UHJ, Circle etc. on cassette/LP/CD/LD) except for Dolby Surround which I get with my VHS HiFi recordings from the DTV reruns channels.

I guess what I need to do is calculate where the sounds end up when older matrix encoded content is decoded w/DPL2 music (and soon DTS in my new receiver).


Apparently, the "matrix battle" came down to H and SQ:
https://books.google.com/books?id=A...gXEAM#v=onepage&q="cbs sq" "matrix h"&f=false

Kirk Bayne