Matrix H Articles

[fizzywiggs41]

[QUOTE
http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=271414
Some parallels with the intro of matrix quad systems and logic decoders (slow gain riding to improved multiband variable matrix after a few years).


https://www.tvtechnology.com/miscellaneous/recording-the-proms-in-51
Looks like it took ~26 years to try broadcast surround sound again after the matrix H broadcasts (too bad the BBC didn't use one of their old matrix H encoders to encode the 5.1 audio to quad for stereo FM ).


Kirk Bayne
[/QUOTE]

Well ,for me I'd have wanted The BEEB to continue in the late 70s with matrix h/hj broadcasts. Like I mentioned previously they had a viable quad matrix , and that was confirmed according to the FCC findings.


I'm not certain if your aware ,Kirk , but not too many years ago they restarted quadraphonic broadcasts 4.0 discrete prior to these new 5.1 broadcasts.

Perhaps someone in the UK,can elaborate.

 

[Soundfield]

I'm not certain if your aware ,Kirk , but not too many years ago they restarted quadraphonic broadcasts 4.0 discrete prior to these new 5.1 broadcasts.
Perhaps someone in the UK,can elaborate.

Happy to oblige....

There was one Proms concert streamed over the internet in 4.0 in 2014 and there were two extended pilots of concerts streamed from the seasons in 2015 & 2016. They were not broadcast over the air and required specific browser functionality. Here's the home page of the 2016 pilot-

All the technical details are, as usual, on the BBC R&D pages if you’re interested. But they concluded:

“Although we are actively experimenting with MSE in BBC R&D, there are no immediate plans to launch any BBC services using the technology. Nevertheless, HTML5, MPEG-DASH and MSE are a powerful set of standards that are sure to play a significant role in delivering media content on the Internet in the coming years”

Which is BBC speak for 'it was all too difficult for people to use so we're shelving the idea'!

 

[kfbkfb]

IMHO, the BBC should war game the idea that (virtually) everything the BBC is involved in recording should be done in (at least 4.0) surround sound so that they can provide multiple good justifications as to why MCH recording is a good use of the license fee during the periodic reviews of the license fee by the regulatory authorities.

The MCH content could be matrix encoded (w/all digital matrix H encoder) for stereo streaming, FM and DAB and sent as discrete for audio only (5.1) Freeview digital TV channels.


Kirk Bayne

 

[Soundfield]

is a good use of the license fee during the periodic reviews of the license fee by the regulatory authorities.

The licence fee has been frozen for years. Most people are (rightly) more interested in whether the BBC has any real future than an academic debate about surround sound.

 

[Owen Smith]

There was one Proms concert streamed over the internet in 4.0 in 2014 and there were two extended pilots of concerts streamed from the seasons in 2015 & 2016. They were not broadcast over the air and required specific browser functionality.

A year or two later they did a trial of lossless stereo FLAC streaming of every Prom for two years, again using HTML5 and MPEG-DASH. Again only Chrome (if I remember correctly) worked, or maybe it was Mozilla. But in addition the third party plugin for iPlayer on SqueezeBox was updated to handle it, much to the BBC's surprise once they saw the stats for how people were listening. SqueezeBox users made up a noticeable proportion of listeners (including me), which given SqueezeBox was already on community maintenance only probably told the BBC all they needed to know about how popular the browser option was.

 

[kfbkfb]

https://www.radiodiscussions.com/threads/bbc-license-fee-gone-2027.744714/
I really think that the BBC should make recording nearly everything in (at least 4.0) a high priority, the recordings could then be upmixed into Dolby Atmos or Sony 360 Reality (or some other immersive format) at some future time, but if no surround sound original recording exists, then the upmixing options are severely limited.

And, of course, an all digital matrix H encoder could be used to distribute the surround sound content via stereo media for later decoding.


Kirk Bayne

 

[artwwweb]

I was recently listening to an episode of 70s BBC radio comedy The Burkiss Way. It started with a parody of a quad announcement. It talks about "tri-decimoseptiphonic sound" (37 speakers ) The audience laughter I think showed that they were familiar with the concept of 'experimental sound'. Though I'm not sure whether the parody announcement made any less sense to the average listener than the real quad trial!

I wish I could put a clip up. (It was Lesson 24, from 13 December 1977 S3E5 if you want to look out for it being repeated. It's not on YT.)

 

[Soundfield]

I was recently listening to an episode of 70s BBC radio comedy The Burkiss Way. It started with a parody of a quad announcement. It talks about "tri-decimoseptiphonic sound" (37 speakers ) The audience laughter I think showed that they were familiar with the concept of 'experimental sound'. Though I'm not sure whether the parody announcement made any less sense to the average listener than the real quad trial!

I wish I could put a clip up. (It was Lesson 24, from 13 December 1977 S3E5 if you want to look out for it being repeated. It's not on YT.)

Ah yes "the Burkiss way to dynamic living", a much overlooked show - I loved it! Still makes the occasional appearance on Radio 4 Extra, I'll keep an ear open for that lesson (while there is such a channel!)

And talking of BBC self parody -there was also a spoof Radio Times entry for the 7th April 1984 edition of I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue that read "This new series is recorded in super-wide track binaural Quad....". Which hilariously I've seen quoted on this site as evidence that some special new format was being used by the BBC in the 1980's! The full Radio Times entry however completes the joke with the line "....which is of wonderful quality, incredibly expensive and far too advanced for any listener's radio" - brilliant!

 

[par4ken]

I was recently listening to an episode of 70s BBC radio comedy The Burkiss Way. It started with a parody of a quad announcement. It talks about "tri-decimoseptiphonic sound" (37 speakers ) The audience laughter I think showed that they were familiar with the concept of 'experimental sound'. Though I'm not sure whether the parody announcement made any less sense to the average listener than the real quad trial!

I wish I could put a clip up. (It was Lesson 24, from 13 December 1977 S3E5 if you want to look out for it being repeated. It's not on YT.)

Yes the addition of more and more channels was as ridiculous as laughable back then, but look what keeps happening, that concept is not too far off the mark!. Instead of building consumer surround based on four or even five channels they keep adding more and more! You can't sell people on adding two more speakers so just keep doubling down!

 

[artwwweb]

(while there is such a channel!)

Oh, don't remind me! Though it might mean that things like this are available on a more permanent online-only basis.

The Burkiss Way was the original home for the 'Mastermind answering the previous question' skit which was re-worked for the two Ronnies. Surely that's almost as big a part of British culture as the Four Candles sketch!

Anyway, I've now discovered that The Burkiss Way is on archive.org if anybody cares to seek it out. The relevant snippet is right at the start of Lesson 24.

 

[Soundfield]

The Burkiss Way is on archive.org if anybody cares to seek it out. The relevant snippet is right at the start of Lesson 24.

Thanks, found it (after a bit of a palaver - the search engine is a bit idiosyncratic) and recorded it! I'd forgotten that intro, it's very funny, I particularly enjoyed - "The noise coming through speaker sixteen is a bit of a bonus, and to the best of our knowledge, is the first time this noise has ever been broadcast live on radio – at least at tea time" Tells you quite a bit about the feeling towards the Quad trials within the BBC at the time I think.

 

[kfbkfb]

https://archive.org/details/TheBurkissWay/S03E05+Lesson+24+One+Hour+To+The+Burkiss+Way.mp3
This raises the question of how the 37 channels would be downmixed to quad for a matrix H encoder.


Kirk Bayne

 

[fizzywiggs41]

The licence fee has been frozen for years. Most people are (rightly) more interested in whether the BBC has any real future than an academic debate about surround sound.

Yep,I can just imagine the flood of surround negative letters and emails to the BEEB , re : "gotta leave well enough alone".

 

[fizzywiggs41]

https://archive.org/details/TheBurkissWay/S03E05+Lesson+24+One+Hour+To+The+Burkiss+Way.mp3
This raises the question of how the 37 channels would be downmixed to quad for a matrix H encoder.


Kirk Bayne

 

[Owen Smith]

Yep,I can just imagine the flood of surround negative letters and emails to the BEEB , re : "gotta leave well enough alone".

There is no long any meaningful way of emailing the BBC, there hasn't been for years. They probably can't afford staff to read them.

 

[artwwweb]

Thanks, found it (after a bit of a palaver - the search engine is a bit idiosyncratic) and recorded it! I'd forgotten that intro, it's very funny, I particularly enjoyed - "The noise coming through speaker sixteen is a bit of a bonus, and to the best of our knowledge, is the first time this noise has ever been broadcast live on radio – at least at tea time" Tells you quite a bit about the feeling towards the Quad trials within the BBC at the time I think.

Yes, I thought it was worth mentioning because it does show a knowledge of the quad broadcasts, though I am not sure if it's bemusement or just general ribbing. (In a similar way, I remember when CDs were new there was a new recording of Under Milk Wood, and a review I read mentioned that it must be the first time somebody had recorded the sound of "...p*ssing into a policeman's helmet in digital stereo.")

 

[Soundfield]

This raises the question of how the 37 channels would be downmixed to quad for a matrix H encoder.


Kirk Bayne

Tri-decimoseptiphonic sound was never down mixed for matrix encoding, it was a purely discrete system broadcast using 18.5 stereo transmitters simultaneously.

 

[artwwweb]

Tri-decimoseptiphonic sound was never down mixed for matrix encoding, it was a purely discrete system broadcast using 18.5 stereo transmitters simultaneously.

Ah, of course! That explains the shared FM channel used by Radios 1 & 2 - half a stereo channel each.

 

[Owen Smith]

Ah, of course! That explains the shared FM channel used by Radios 1 & 2 - half a stereo channel each.

That transmitter would be very confusing to listen to on a mono radio.

 

[MidiMagic]

My favorite radio station is using the splash of a dive to tell people to phone in to win. Funny, but it sounds like a limb breaking off a tree.

How do you know that sound is what they say it is? They can use substitute noises.

My favorite created noise was the unscrewing of the end of the cylinder in the 1938 War of the Worlds. They held a mason jar in a toilet bowl and turned the lid.