Movie: What the Hell Happened to Blood, Sweat & Tears?

[marcb]

Agreed. Abbie Hoffman was never a spokesman for anyone I associated with.

I have the AF SACD, and although I can’t say they’re my favorite band, I like most of their music - enough to seek out that SACD.

No offense, but channels are misaligned on the AF SACD. It sounds smeared and out of balance (toward the left). I can’t recall how many samples it’s off (and that depends, of course, upon the sample rate you use for conversion) but it’s enough to be noticable.

If you convert it to PCM and realign, it’s noticeably tighter, better defined and centered.

 

[barfle]

No offense, but channels are misaligned on the AF SACD. It sounds smeared and out of balance (toward the left). I can’t recall how many samples it’s off (and that depends, of course, upon the sample rate you use for conversion) but it’s enough to be noticable.

If you convert it to PCM and realign, it’s noticeably tighter, better defined and centered.

I guess I'll have to give it another listen.

 

[marcb]

I guess I'll have to give it another listen.

Some people don't notice it (or don't care); others do. I noticed the first time I listened to it. AF eventually acknowledged it, but they never corrected it. They had a similar problem with their Sly Stone GH SACD as well (which they did correct). IIRC, it's only on the SACD layer, not the CD layer.

Once I shifted and aligned the samples, I'd say it's my favorite version. Before that, not so much (the Sony SACD was probably #1 digital version for me).

 

[Quad Linda]

Received this updated US theater schedule from BS&T today. A few showings are over, most are not:

https://www.bstdoc.com/watch

 

[Quad Linda]

Doubt I'll make the Chicago showing. Might be able to watch at Oriental Theater in Milwaukee. We'll see.

Will buy DVD whether or not I can make theatrical showings.

Preordered CD, arrived today:

What the Hell Happened to Blood, Sweat & Tears 1970 live in Zagreb, Bucharest & Warsaw companion to documentary

https://www.discogs.com/release/268...ened-To-Blood-Sweat-Tears-Original-Soundtrack

 

[Quad Linda]

Documentary pulled from scheduled November 2023 DVD release. No new release date on DVD announced. We had it preordered. phooey

BS&T 2 would be in my 10 favorite albums. And one of my most played.
Bought BS&T 2 11 times:
1st pressing 2 ch LP walking eyes "360 sound"
Q8
SQ
Direct Disk Labs 1/2 speed LP
Direct Disc Labs dbx encoded 1/2 speed LP
Japan CD
2ch expanded CD
MoFi 2ch SACD
Columbia 2ch SACD single layer
AF Quad SACD
AP Quad SACD from 4 SACD Bloodlines box

 

[jefe1]

Hi QL
Best sounding version from your list?
I missed picking up this record in any form.
Sounds like the quad mix is messed up on sacd is the mix even good....
expanded bonus cuts any good?

 

[Quad Linda]

2 ch SACD's: MoFi & Columbia sound identical
vinyl 2ch: Direct Disc 1/2 speed
dbx is best analog IF you have decoder

Walking Eyes CBS LP is my most played copy and sounds pretty damn good. Of course, it was my ONLY copy for first 5 years it was out.

Q8 is my most played surround copy
I haven't had a chance to a/b AP Bloodlines 4 SACD Quad SACD to AF BS&T2.
Will try to report back when I do

 

[jefe1]

Many thanks QL
Yes I do have the decoder....
It would be great if the Bloodlines sacd corrected the errors of the AF SACD.

I remember AF issued two different corrected disc's for Sly and Family Stone until they got it right as their first quad reissue they had to fix it if they wanted to sell more.

 

[humprof]

Rented the documentary for five bucks on Apple TV+ the other night. (I'm pretty sure it's also available to rent from other services like Amazon Prime and YouTube.) Really terrific: compelling story, great concert & candid footage, and excellent interviews with Bobby Colomby, Steve Katz, and David Clayton-Thomas, in particular.

 

[Quad Linda]

DVD finally released a few weeks ago. Sure I'm biased, but it's great.

 

[Marplot]

Thanks for the note. DVD and Soundtrack requested from my local library.

 

[elroy]

Thanks all for the reminder about this

 

[Marplot]

I figured out what happened ... Somethin' Goin' On / Blues Part II live = zzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Quadly McQuadmeister]

I've written about this film in a number of online forums and know some of the surviving original members of both bands. I apologize for overlooking this one.
Chicago is a Rock band with horns whose quality fell dramatically after their 8th (or so, some would assert the 10th) album. The band has tried to historically revise itself to be "Terry Kath's" band. This has been done (take this as being acknowledged as polemical short-hand and somewhat oversimplified) to market itself to people who never liked Horn bands in the first place. It was ALWAYS Robert Lamm's and the Horn section's band, albeit with Democratic input from everyone. (The larger issue was one of who made the most money from writing hit songs.) This is my opinion, and I don't think it is much appreciated by Katz, but I saw his TASTE as being his greatest strength. He struck me more as serving the same function as Freddie Green did with Basie's band. Not so much a "I can't wait to show off my chop" guitarist mentality that finds plenty of exposure in the rest of the Rock Music marketplace. It did cause friction within the band as time passed and came to a head as the musically ignorant, highly eccentric underground Rock press "hated on" both bands (and every other idiomatically diverse band with horn sections) pretty much for their entire careers.

People get to like what they like, but B, S&T was an order of magnitude more musically literate in terms of technique and arranging competence and was throughout the first four or so albums. The next two (New Blood and No Sweat) are great records but VERY far removed from the Jazz and 20th Century Classical music that were the inspirations for their founding. (God Bless MAYNARD FERGUSON-Al Kooper's Autobiography). B, S&T's success would've continued were it not for all the "dirty deeds done dirt cheap" by the Nixon Administration. I like Chicago, but by the sixth record, they'd begun transitioning away from their more musically ambitious/diverse roots. There are great tunes and fine performances on many of the later editions of both bands. But the "lack of individual "Hero Worship" that was built into the DNA of both bands (A logo, with the aggregated effort of the entire group prevailing) helped fuel a false narrative that helped drive both Cetera and Kath to feel somewhat disaffected when compared to the "worshipfulness" found in other (less diverse, but equally talented) bands. For most working musicians I know, two contradictory forces are acknowledged: 1. Money and sales figures are a well-acknowledged positive reinforcer. That usually means there's a fairly brutal gap between what you WANT to do and what you HAVE to do. Especially once you become a "Corporate Entity" and payrolls have to be WELL maintained. 2. In the Rock music idiom, the only three things that matter are (to a greater or lesser degree) "Guitar, Bass & Drums".

Exceptions exist, but if people like David Foster felt confident using it against the band by extolling that Cetera (who is unquestionably very talented as a Bassist and Singer) and Kath's inferred unhappiness with his Legacy in general (compared to his peers) then there has to be something self-evident of which to take notice. I.E., the more people (as full-time members and not just session hires) are involved in Commercial Popular Music, the more potential for chaos is injected into their Creative longevity stats. My personal opinion is that musicians and people whose musical tastes transcend the Rock Music idiom liked both bands (and their competitors) a LOT. It shouldn't (and doesn't have to be) "either/or". The ones who don't skip "Free Form Guitar" on CTA and think it's the best track on the set have every right to that opinion. It's just not mine. Either way, (to borrow a sentiment from another of my favorite Artists who listed BASSOON as the Instrument he'd have played if he didn't play Guitar) "America Drinks And Goes Home". Just leave this one corner of Rock to those who prefer it over the many other equally interesting hybrids that emerged as a unique phenomenon. PARTICULARLY at THAT time. Nothing like it has emerged since, and that should be respected. JMO. Everybody gets their own. Best to all.

 

[Bill Hartmann]

One of my all time favorite bands. Why only on DVD? Are they releasing the soundtrack on 8-Track tape?

 

[Quadly McQuadmeister]

I spoke to the production company rep and they pushed for a Blu-Ray release based on my Facebook group's support for it. DVD was all we could get and even that was stop and go for a couple of months. Omnivore Records has/had the Soundtrack and original performances on CD and (momentarily) on vinyl. You can find the vinyl if you scrounge, but it's already starting to inflate. Being a completist, if they'd put it out on 8-track I'd probably buy it. But I have about a half dozen restored TOTL Quad Panasonics and Pioneer HR-100's. I try to keep 'em fed when I find content that doesn't suck out loud. Not as easy as it once was, I can tell you that much.

 

[Bill Hartmann]

I spoke to the production company rep and they pushed for a Blu-Ray release based on my Facebook group's support for it. DVD was all we could get and even that was stop and go for a couple of months. Omnivore Records has/had the Soundtrack and original performances on CD and (momentarily) on vinyl. You can find the vinyl if you scrounge, but it's already starting to inflate. Being a completist, if they'd put it out on 8-track I'd probably buy it. But I have about a half dozen restored TOTL Quad Panasonics and Pioneer HR-100's. I try to keep 'em fed when I find content that doesn't suck out loud. Not as easy as it once was, I can tell you that much.

With that being said, I ordered my copies right away. I’ve learned the “procrastination lesson” too often lately.
By the way, if you have an “in” with the production company, I tried contacting David Clayton Thomas’s management about doing a screening at either our IMAX style theatre or our performance theatre with a talk back with DCT or any other members in the band. These type of events have become quite popular and I thought this would a perfect example. If you wouldn’t mind putting a good word in, I can give you more details…
Thank you

 

[Quadly McQuadmeister]

DCT doesn't own the original documentary. By all accounts I can find, Lew smuggled it back in one of his infamously celebrated Trumpet Quad cases. He then quietly sat on it until Filmways had gone the way of Oliver Wendell Douglas's Hoyt-Claggwell (Fordson) Tractor. He uploaded the Documentary to his YT channel and it stayed there until well after he passed. Some corporate (probably Colomby, but I don't know that) interest forced it to be taken down about the same time as when news of the WTHHTBS&T documentary came out. I'll look back through the FB group's posts and see if I can find the rep's information. Thx!

 

[JonUrban]

OK @Quad Linda , I finally got around to watching this. Thanks for this thread that pops up from time to time to remind me. Tonight I just told my wife (who loves classic BS&T) we were watching it and we did.

Wow! Not what I expected. Dark, very dark. The went on that tour as I was graduating HS (June 1970), and I had no idea, or clue, as to them going on tour or the crap that took place when they got back. (Imagine that happening to day with our Social Media connected world!)

Now, back in 1970, I was into mostly mainstream stuff, although I was totally Beatles 100% as well, but I also loved BS&T (Second album) and played BS&T 3 all through that summer, so much so that when I got to my dorm for my freshman year in college, and I heard the song "Fire and Rain" by James Taylor rolling down the dorm hallway, I thought "Hey, who's that guy singing the Blood Sweat and Tears song?"

What these guys went through, at least the way it's portrayed in the documentary, was pretty brutal. Hot sweaty stages in basically third wild countries with guards watching their every move, that's pretty heavy. And the US State Department (no comment on the current one which is probably 1000x worse) was a group that clearly could not be trusted. Very heavy stuff.

The music and video is pretty damn good and quite entertaining to watch. The vibe they gave those kids over there is something they should be proud of. But wow, what a heavy documentary to watch. It's not your typical "Here's how the band got together and how they became famous" watch. Far from that.

[Note about no-BluRay: This film does not need BluRay. It works fine as a DVD]

I honestly don't think I could sit through it again, although it was totally worth watching and both my wife and I were glad I did. BTW - She's the one that loaned me her BS&T3 LP way back in 1970 to listen to and copy during that summer.

It's very interesting, very informative, but it's a very sad story when you digest it. Thanks so much for bringing it to my attention - even if it took a year or so for me to react to it!