Music Media Helper (Tools for Multichannel Audio & Music Videos)
- Thread starter HomerJAU
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Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:
May I just say a proper thank you to @HomerJAU for creating such an intuitive and easy to use program for all of us to use. I've just started the long process of archiving my surround collection and MMH has made doing that an absolute breeze, even to the point of being fun to do! Even with the few issues I've encountered, I've simply come to this page to find that there's already a new update that has resolved it. Excellent work!
You got that right. Garry is the best. I update my MMH even when I haven't used it. I only use it for a fraction of what it can do.
Everything I do is based on one thing, I use JRiver as my player, not Garry's choice but I am to far into it to change.
In fact Garry made a little JRiver check box that has a JRiver sidecar for tagging, brilliant.
I either use the top button "Split And Rename Concerts" I use this to split only Atmos chapters from Blu Rays, which when done enables me to use either the chapters, but also gives me a root selection if a Blu Ray is gapless like Abbey Road. Also the root file is great when you want a constant, non chapter, selection like the ATMOS of Kraftwerk which has a constant video with there music.
The only other button I use is "Extract Audio From MKV" This is what I use when I want to create a 5.1 file in FLAC, obviously not too long ago that was the only option from Blu Rays.
JRiver will play gapless in FLAC but not MKV, at least not yet.
I have been told to switch to M4A, is that it? JRiver will do gapless on that, I don't know.
When I am done with the ATMOS MKV files and I import them to my JRiver they automatically go into the Video folder which is so nice as they are not mixed with all the FLAC stuff.
I rip Blu Rays MKV and MMH, and never have a problem, I maybe could do it different but the end result is all I am after. I owe every ripped Blu Ray in my collection to @HomerJAU.
For SACD's I use the Sonore software, never a problem.
For DVD V's and A's I use DVDAE, never a problem.
The only advantage the M4A container has is it uses standard tagging, no need for JRiver sidecar files. But support for Dolby streams in M4A is only relatively new and so JRiver may not ‘see’ Atmos in M4A.
No media player will do gapless Atmos from individual files due to HDMI sync time, you’ll need to use a cue file with a single chaptered MKV, mka or MP4 file. The MMH Chapter Editor will create cue files for those. Essential for gapless albums like Abbey Road, but for most albums individual files are fine. There are so few albums authored for gapless, although the upcoming DSOTM in Atmos is another.
VLC only recently added support for Atmos in M4A.
I know people like what they like, but for Blu Rays, Atmos or otherwise I just play the .iso files.
No need to rip further, and all the information is right there, with the caveat that you must decrypt them.
For the pc, VLC media player (free) will play it and so will PowerDVD (paid).
PowerDVD will also play MP4/M4A Atmos downloads.
No need to rip further, and all the information is right there, with the caveat that you must decrypt them.
For the pc, VLC media player (free) will play it and so will PowerDVD (paid).
PowerDVD will also play MP4/M4A Atmos downloads.
.iso files is the best method when you have a player that support the full disc with all menus, etc, like Dune or Oppo in my case. I do not play with the PC in my theater.
But it's also true that sometimes disc menus can be cumbersome, or they may even not work well in some players. And probably, we only want to play directly and quickly the selection of Surround or Atmos tracks. For these cases, it may be best to have the individual files of the tracks/songs.
When I used Extract Audio From MKV to create M4A files with the Atmos stream from the Waka/Wazoo blu-ray, the M4A files showed "0:00" in the Duration column, but the files were fairly large, so I knew they contained the stream. When I played them with Kodi, the Atmos stream played flawlessly, but the time indicators on the Kodi display were pretty wacky. Not a huge deal, but weird.
There are also some tagging foibles that I seem to have encountered with these M4A files that I don't get with FLAC files. The Album name, for instance, shows as "Disc 0" in Kodi. I'm going to have to re-tag the Atmos and 5.1 files from the blu-ray anyway because I want them to appear as separate albums, but I wonder if anyone else has encountered some of the time stamp and/or tagging anomalies with M4A files.
There are also some tagging foibles that I seem to have encountered with these M4A files that I don't get with FLAC files. The Album name, for instance, shows as "Disc 0" in Kodi. I'm going to have to re-tag the Atmos and 5.1 files from the blu-ray anyway because I want them to appear as separate albums, but I wonder if anyone else has encountered some of the time stamp and/or tagging anomalies with M4A files.
Were you splitting an MKV file with chapters or converting multiple pre-split MKV files?
Someone else on Kodi forum mentioned the Disc 0 issue. What version of Kodi are you using? I’m wondering if this is only in new Kodi version 20 just released? I’ve not seen this Disc 0 issue yet on any Kodi release.
I use the DiscSubTitle tag to break up discs in Kodi not the Disc number tag. The DiscSubTitle is displayed in Kodi for each file (song) with same DiscSubTitle with same MusicBrainzReleaseID or same AlbumArtist and AlbumName.
The progress bar time display in Kodi for m4a files has been broken for a while for TrueHD Atmos and has been fixed for next release of Kodi (version 21). The fix missed the new version 20 release, I think because it wasn’t given any real priority until a developer was shown a short movie of what it looks like!
I play a lot of individual songs and create play lists so ISOs won’t work for me. I use Kodi which creates a UI for all the artists, albums and Songs from its music and music videos database (file tags) so I can navigate directly to any artist, album or song from an iPad app while music is playing (no interruption to current playing music or music video).
I usually start a music session by displaying Recently Added albums, then start building a session playlist by selecting albums or songs I want to hear then they all play in that order.
I split an MKV file with chapters. I'm running Kodi 19.4. The "end time" started working on these files, and the "time elapsed" or whatever it is, works; it just looks a little weird as the seconds elapse. Either way, it's not a big deal. I'm just grateful you added this capability in MMH to extract Atmos streams to playable files.
I haven't had a chance to read the Atmos Helper thread or documentation. I get the feeling it probably won't apply to my set-up(s) and/or usage, but who knows?
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- Sep 1, 2003
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One related thing worth mentioning from another Kodi fan with an interest in blu-ray .iso menu support on an Nvidia Shield TV is the fandangos build which works quite well. It's been my daily driver for awhile.
Release - Full bluray and 4k uhd bluray menu support for Android
Release - Full bluray and 4k uhd bluray menu support for Android
Well I just don't get that. Like I said, VLC and PowerDVD will play an .iso just like putting a disc in a machine, if that's what you mean. The time to mount an .iso file in Windows by the media app is probably roughly the same as the time it takes the disc player to load.
I have a jailbroke Oppo player and I can load .iso files from my network, but that's just an extra unnecessary step to me, except in the case of DVDA if I want to view a DVDA menu as it would appear if you put a disc in the machine. I can load a DVDA .iso and see it just as it would appear if I put the disc in one of the Oppo's.
Sadly, PowerDVD dropped their support for DVDA and AFAIK VLC never had it. Foobar will play the .iso but does not do any video so no graphics or menu.
If you want to take the extra steps to rip all your music to other formats, then by all means do so. I would be the last one to tell someone my way is the only way. It's just not necessary or needed by me. We all have our preferences, playback on the pc is mine. All my music is ripped and stored on my pc with backups on different HDD's. I have 11 HDD's on my main pc, several on my second pc, and many (music) Blu rays backed up on HDD's up on a shelf.
Of course I still buy digital downloads of FLAC, MKV, MP4, M4A. I don't limit myself to any formats or playback capability. But seldom do I use a disc player these days, usually for the rare new purchase of a DVDA. So I still keep one of the Oppo's handy, and if I need to rip a SACD. The rest of the disc players are boxed up while I decide what to do with them.
As far as the apps like Kodi, I don't much care for them. I don't need the graphics, ripping, all the extra work. I would rather just listen to my music. In my audio room, my pc is the source for all music.
@boondocks So how do you know which disc to go to to play a specific album or song with 11 hard drives?
Well. All are sorted by type first of all. DVDA, SACD, etc. Atmos / "immersive" formats are sorted out in their own folders. I seldom go hunting for a specific song. I don't make playlists, never have. I've always been an album listener. I may skip some tracks but by and large that's the way I've always listened to music. I do have folders of FLAC, and other file formats but generally they are either full albums or EP's.
I may not be able to quote you a track, but when I think of music I have no problem finding what I want to listen to, it just seems automatic.
All the types above are quicklinks in my file manager so I never have a problem navigating to either the main folders or their backups.
e.g.
Atmos#
Atmos backup
DVDA#
DVDA backup
Quad#
Quad backup
etc etc
My "main" and duplicate or backup folders are spread out across the drives, except for the music BD's which I keep one copy on the machine and one copy on either the second machine or stored on an archived HDD because of the enormity of size.
I got tired of buying and building disc racks and don't bother anymore, the living room is full of them. These days discs get ripped, sit on my desk for a few days and go into a box, with a few exceptions.
If you include my digital downloads along with my rips -which are always in .iso format when possible- then I believe my surround music collection is roughly 24 TB in digital form.
??.
Each one uses the method that they have developed according to their needs, knowledge and experience.
I decided to put together all my music in a single HDD, sorted by Artist, then by Year-Album inside, then by the different releases of each album.
In my listening sessions I use to listen to complete albums. So my first index search is about the Artist itself, regardless of style, or file format (file format is included in the name of album release).
I have all my music together in a 18 TB disk, but recently it is close to full, so I have a second disk with 'Initial letter' as index to the name of the Artist. Of course, all is duplicated in another two disks in another PC in another location (summer house).
With respect to looking for what I want to listen, it's easy if I know the Artist name and album name. If not, I browse or select or filter in my Excel sheet that I update the corresponding columns, when I'm adding content and after listening session, with the Style, comments about how much I like, the mix quality, the format type, comments copied from this forum, etc.
Music Media Helper 6.4.6 Released:
Version 6.4.6 (March 6 2023)
-------------
Changes:
Channel Volume tool: Added support for loading & editing .w64 files (6, 8, 10, 12, 16 & 24 channels) - allows channel volume editing of decoded Atmos files created by the MMH Atmos Helper tool.
Channel Split & Merge tool: Splitting into mono files failed - fixed
Updated Ffmpeg to 6.0.0
Version 6.4.6 (March 6 2023)
-------------
Changes:
Channel Volume tool: Added support for loading & editing .w64 files (6, 8, 10, 12, 16 & 24 channels) - allows channel volume editing of decoded Atmos files created by the MMH Atmos Helper tool.
Channel Split & Merge tool: Splitting into mono files failed - fixed
Updated Ffmpeg to 6.0.0
Wow, what a great tool, only now just discovered it 
Many thanks @HomerJAU!
Quick question about a specific use case:
Say I wanted to get some e-ac3 768kb/s Atmos files I have lying around re-encoded to True-HD Atmos for playback in a standalone player (and get rid of dialnorm as well).
Would this be the optimal workflow?
-decode e-ac3 Atmos to highest channel WAV (so 9.1.6?)
-encode back as channel based 9.1.6 True-HD Atmos
I'm guessing there's no way to retain the object type structure when going from e-ac3 to True-HD?
Thanks!
Many thanks @HomerJAU!
Quick question about a specific use case:
Say I wanted to get some e-ac3 768kb/s Atmos files I have lying around re-encoded to True-HD Atmos for playback in a standalone player (and get rid of dialnorm as well).
Would this be the optimal workflow?
-decode e-ac3 Atmos to highest channel WAV (so 9.1.6?)
-encode back as channel based 9.1.6 True-HD Atmos
I'm guessing there's no way to retain the object type structure when going from e-ac3 to True-HD?
Thanks!
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I understand that this workflow would be right.Wow, what a great tool, only now just discovered it
Many thanks @HomerJAU!
Quick question about a specific use case:
Say I wanted to get some e-ac3 768kb/s Atmos files I have lying around re-encoded to True-HD Atmos for playback in a standalone player (and get rid of dialnorm as well).
Would this be the optimal workflow?
-decode e-ac3 Atmos to highest channel WAV (so 9.1.6?)
-encode back as channel based 9.1.6 True-HD Atmos
I'm guessing there's no way to retain the object type structure when going from e-ac3 to True-HD?
Thanks!
Let me add some more questions for me to better understand Dolby Atmos.
Why would you do that, besides to experiment ?
I understand that the sound quality would be the same. No improvement by transcoding from lossy to lossless.
Is your use case a real use case? Do you need Atmos/TrueHD for the standalone player? It cannot play Atmos/DD+?
The objects "dissapear" when decoding to fixed multichannel WAV.
But some different objects may appear again when encoding back to 9.1.6 Atmos.
For instance, the Wides speakers (from 9.1 floor) are not assigned to any 7.1.2 Atmos bed channel, so the encoder has to generate some objects for the Wide channels content. I have done it with 9.1.6 individual mono files and it works OK. Also same consideration apply for the Tops front/rears as there are only two Top Atmos bed channels.
But I guess despite losing the objects, the listening effect would be exactly the same for the same given speakers config.
You can also add an intermediate step in your workflow, using MMH to change individual channels volume level on the mch WAV. Typical to tune side/rears/tops to our level tastes in some Atmos music mixes.
With respect to dialnorm, it will also dissapear if you just reencode back to Atmos/DD+ again. No dialnorm metadata could persist in the mch WAV, I think.
Finally I will also say: "Wow, what a great tool".
Thanks for the reply!
It's something I've been interested in doing for myself due to a couple of reasons, mainly:
- with my listening room layout I much prefer using physical media whenever possible
- sadly, my standalonde player doesn't do e-ac3 Atmos over mkv/mp4, so for that stuff I'm stuck with streaming over HDMI which is cumbersome
- my AVR doesn't override dialnorm, so the tracks go up and down in volume constantly
- decoding the e-ac3's channel bed to WAV with other software gets rid of dialnorm but the Atmos layer goes too
So my thinking with the proposed workflow is to retain as much spatial info from the e-ac3's as possible by decoding to 9.1.6 WAV (which I suspect is what they contain anyway, as Media Info shows 16 objects for these), compensate for dialnorm, encode as 9.1.6 channel-based Atmos True-HD and burn to AVCHD/Bluray for my standalone player.
Ideally, this would give me a physical, standalone-compatible copy of the e-ac3 with no further compression and most, if not all, of the spatial info retained.
As far as dialnorm goes, I've just checked and it does seem to affect the WAV output of the MMH Atmos helper.
The output files vary in volume the same way they do on my AVR.
Does MMH allow disabling dialnorm on decoding somewhere, or should I just check the dialnorm value manually for each file and compensate with the channel gain setting?
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