Music Server Newbie Experiences and Questions

[JanBakker]

Homer, I don't see this option anywhere I foobar. ... preferences- converter- then I get a listing with the converters in it but I cant bring up any dialog.

That dialog pops up when you right mouseclick a file and select convert. And then click processing.

 

[HomerJAU]

Here's my SACD settings:

 

[HomerJAU]

Here's an interesting option in Kodi 'Madnox' skin when the 'Music' menu is active. This option creates a changing random background of music album covers from your music library:

 

[JanBakker]

Here's my SACD settings:

View attachment 25590

Question: My soundcard doesn't support 88.200 so I set my pcm samplerate to 176.400 and then convert to 96.000, would that result in artefacts you mentioned before?

 

[HomerJAU]

Question: My soundcard doesn't support 88.200 so I set my pcm samplerate to 176.400 and then convert to 96.000, would that result in artefacts you mentioned before?

In reality you probably wont hear any issues, even just queuing the Sox resampler to 96kHz while doing the SACD conversion to 88.2 (without up/down resampling you suggested above). Have a go and do a comparison yourself.

There's many purists that say a DSF to PCM conversion is not good, but I've not heard any difference in my listening tests.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Im obviously doing something wrong here… or AudioMuxer is.

Im trying to convert a DTS 24/96 DVDV stream to 24/96 Flac. Specifically, Jethro Tull TAAB
I choose: tools/extract audio from DVD video
I choose “Select VTS*.IFO file” and navigate to the Video TS folder on the DVD. choosing VTS_04 which has the 5.1 AC3 and the 5.1 DTS 24/96 streams. I select the DTS stream.
I check “load in audiomuxer and split in chapters” and “Export to flac” level 6. no retagging no renaming.
I click extract. Using the dcadec DTS decoder, It begins to extract to a file named output.wav

When it finishes I get a popup telling me the audiomuxer input list has been updated . The menu tree shows an eac3to.exe callout and offers the following log:
==> G:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_04_0.IFO
>> VOB, 1 video track, 2 audio tracks, 0:42:13 (2 chapters) - NTSC 29.97fps
> 3: DTS-96/24, 5.1 channels, 1510kbps, 96kHz
> 4: AC3, 5.1 channels, 448kbps, 48kHz
> eac3to v3.31
command line: "eac3to.exe" "G:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_04_1.VOB"+"G:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_04_2.VOB" 3:"C:\Users\paul\Downloads\outgoing\taab\Output.wav" -progressnumbers -no2ndpass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
VOB, 1 video track, 2 audio tracks, 0:42:13
1: Joined VOB file
2: MPEG2, 480p30 /1.001 (16:9)
3: DTS-96/24, 5.1 channels, 1510kbps, 96kHz
4: AC3, 5.1 channels, 448kbps, 48kHz
[a03] This EVO/VOB file contains authoring faults. Will try to work around that. (1830) <WARNING>
[a03] Extracting audio track number 3...
[a03] Decoding with libDcaDec DTS Decoder...
[a03] Writing WAV...
[a03] Creating file "C:\Users\paul\Downloads\outgoing\taab\Output.wav"...
[a03] Caution: The WAV file is bigger than 4GB. <WARNING>
[a03] Some WAV readers might not be able to handle this file correctly. <WARNING>
Video track 2 contains 65799 frames and 5 fields.
eac3to processing took 8 minutes, 46 seconds.
Done.


I close the “extract audio from DVD” window. And there is output.wav loaded in the main audiomuxer window. In the output folder is
Cuefile.cue
Cuefile.cue.oggfmt.txt
Output.split-001.flac
Output.split-001.wav
Output.wav.chapter

Now what?
Ive tried selecting the wav file and selecting cue split, It asks for a cue file and I point it toward the cue file in the output folder. It then tells me an error occurred and stops.
If I try to select the flac file it tells me there is no compatable match for the dts 24/96 file format and I should convert the file first.

 

[JanBakker]

Seems like the 4gb size of the wav file is the problem, not Audiomuxer:

tebasuna51

7th May 2012, 15:19​

WAV header have two fields in header to store the filesize and the size of audio data.
Both fields have 32 bits length. With 32 bits the max size than can be store is 4GB, if audio data (and of course filesize) is greater these fields have a overflow and some soft can't know the correct duration.
Is not a bug in eac3to, is a limit in WAV header. Some encoders can accept WAV > 4GB with a specific parameter:
Flac: --ignore-chunk-sizes
Aften: -readtoeof 1
NeroAacEnc, qaac, fhgaacenc, Oggenc2: -ignorelength
...

To avoid the problem you can decode to W64, like WAV but with 64 bits for these problematic fields.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Homer, I did find the processing check in Foobar. DTS post processing was checked by default.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Here's an interesting option in Kodi 'Madnox' skin when the 'Music' menu is active. This option creates a changing random background of music album covers from your music library:

View attachment 25591

how nice is that??

 

[LuvMyQuad]

You should probably stay with 88.2kHz for SACD, it's not worth the effort to resample to 96KHz, it can't add new audio information and some would argue it adds audio artefacts, especially if not resampling by a factor of 2. I'm sure there's lots of discussion on various audio forums.

Also, some DVD-As are 88.2kHz not 48 or 96KHz.

BTW: Foobar has a Sox resampling plugin you can download from the Foobar website.

Im not sure there is lots of discussion on this, but what I found seemed to indicate what you have already said. That there is nothing to be gained and it could even degrade the stream. In several cases I read that for best results, the sampling rate of the conversion needs to be some integer multiple of 44.1 kHz. So 88.2, 132.3 kHz, 176.4 kHz... So I guess 88.2 kHz it is. My Pre/Pro is being serviced right now (remote triggers aren't working). When I get it back I will attempt a comparison of the sonic attributes.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

This is gonna be a long read. Strap in.

I continue to struggle to get AudioMuxer (AM) to reliably make 24/96 flac transfers from DTS 24/96 DVDV sources. I have several thoughts on AM operation. It’s picky about the quality of the disks you use. Even unplayed new disks can trip it up. Disk read errors that might go totally unnoticed when playing the physical disk itself seem capable of stopping AM in its tracks (pun intended). It can also be a little buggy, even if the disks are in good shape. I have had more successes than failures. but the failures occurred in a strange variety of ways. To an extent, the same can be said for the successes.

My initial test rip was converting the 5.1 release of Jethro Tull – Thick as a Brick. It turned out to be a poor choice to start with and I have yet to get a 24/96 copy of the DTS stream of that disk. I think it could be an issue that is specific to that disk. I’m still trying. But after the half dozen attempts I made to transfer that title, I have come across a peculiarity that allowed me to successfully convert many other titles.

Here’s what WAS happening….

If I attempted to extract audio from a the TAAB DVDV with AM, after selecting a VTS*.IFO file, it attempted to parse, started the progress bar, but then quickly stopped the operation with no further indication of an error. Nothing gets loaded in the conversion window. The program doesn’t crash. It just stops.

A few times I tried to make an MKV file (using makeMKV) and extract the audio from it using the AM option to do that. It doesn’t work. I couldn’t create an MKV file with 24/96 audio… only 24/48. Other than that, AM smoothly converted the MKV file and delivered chapter split flac files in 24/48 to the output folder.If anyone knows a way to force makeMKV to create an MKV file with 24/96 audio, that would be helpful. I have a few 24/96 DTS concert videos I’d like to convert. I'm not convinced makeMKV is the way to go for these, and a different video converter may be in order.

As I was muddling through this I eventually realized that AFTER using makeMKV to create an MKV file, AM would indeed parse the DTS video files properly, write the decoded wave file, and convert it to chapter split 24/96 flac files just as it is supposed to. These are the same files it would not even parse prior to creating the MKV file. Further testing showed that I didn’t actually have to create an MKV file, simply opening the disk with makeMKV would do the same thing. This happens on both of the DVD drives I have on hand- an internal laptop and an external USB drive- and you have to scan with MKV using the same drive you are going to use to rip the DTS audio from.

What could possibly be happening? I’m guessing MKV is setting some switch in the OS or memory which governs how the DVD drives work when it goes into “Direct Access Mode”. Later this setting is changed. Maybe a copy protection issue? Maybe one of you has a better idea????

Like I said I’ve had successes and failures. The successes include Jethro Tull: Benefit, A Passion Play, Warchild, Too Old to R&R. Genesis: Selling England, Trespass, Nursery Cryme. Even though I was successful with these, AM sometimes created an extra flac file which was not part of the album. These extra files aren’t playable and I don’t know what they are. I just ended up deleting them when they showed up in the output folder.

I also tried a conversion of Pink Floyd – The Division Bell and David Gilmour – On an Island. I soon realized that both of these titles are only DTS 24/48 5.1 to begin with. DVDA extractor did these titles with a lot less hassle.

And now for the strange failures and an ugly fix for one of them:

Jethro Tull – Minstrel in the Gallery and Genesis - Lamb Lies Down: AM errors out partway through creating the Output.wav file with a log file error saying “it doesn’t seem to be a valid EVO/VOB file”. WTF ???? This happens with two different drives, and I expect this is due to AM encountering a read error. The disks themselves are pristine.

I think when playing disks live, the occasional read error happens and goes totally unnoticed by the listener. There is an error handling routine that fills in a missing bit here and there and everything carries on. Everything except AM, apparently. It either has no error handling routine, or its benefit is very minimal.

So, I had the brilliant idea to make a copy of the disk and try to convert the copy. Out comes ImgBurn which, when I attempt to extract an ISO file, promptly informs me that my Tull disk is copy protected. GRRRR… more research gets me to download a trial copy of AnyDVD, which will neutralize the copy protection on the disk. Oh yeah, the source disks are double layer DVDs. Lets see, how many burnable double layers do I have…. One. Ok, I take a chance with the tull disk that the stream I want will end up on the 1st layer and tell ImgBurn to burn and truncate. That worked too. I eventually ended up with AM delivering a set of chapter split 24/96 flac files to the output directory. In spite of my griping, all of this worked perfectly. It just took forever.

I’m sure there is probably an easier way than what I outlined above that I hope some of you will kindly point out to me. If it weren’t that these are favorite disks, I might not have gone through this much trouble. I’m not even sure at this point if I’m going to be able to hear the difference between the 24/48 stream (which would have been a whole lot easier to get via DVDA extractor). and the 24/96 stream. I’ll get to that comparison soon enough.

The insurmountable one...:yikes

Jethro Tull – Thick as a Brick. After AM finishes writing the Output.wav file it will not continue on to convert to flac. The log has an entry saying that the input file is larger than 4GB and that some programs may have trouble accessing it. I am starting to agree with JanBakker, who in a previous post here, suggested that was the problem. I think the DTS converter used cannot load a file greater than 4GB (see below for more in the converts used). If I try to convert the initial output.wav file to flac manually, or to .wav64 (which supports files larger than 4GB), AM errors out and closes with a Windows announcement saying AudioMuxer has stopped working.

Genesis – Foxtrot. AM properly converted 5 of the 6 tracks on the album. The last track, ”Suppers Ready” was in the output folder as a split wav file only. If I try to convert it manually, AM errors out telling me it is not a valid audio file. I haven't tried to rescue this one ... yet.

So far that’s 9 successes and 1 failure.

DTS decoders::zzzzz

After getting the first handful of failures with TAAB and doing some web searches I came upon this QQ thread. It discusses how to find and install an Arcsoft DTS decoder (just read the post and follow the instructions that come with the download to install it). It seems to be preferred by some audiophiles over the one that came bundled with AM. Neither decoder addressed the alleged 4GB limit problem with TAAB, and I haven’t yet noticed any functional difference between them. YMMV . Any further info on this subject would be helpful.

 

[HomerJAU]

I haven't read all your post yet (early morning here). But:

Audiomuxier needs an unprotected disc, so you need to make a DVD image that's unprotected then use AM.

From memory AM crashes when converting to FLAC after first creating a WAV. I was thinking the issue of >4GB has something to do with splitting/tagging. So again from memory I think it works if you copy its WAV file as soon as its completed and while AM is still attempting to convert to FLAC. (You have to be quick!).

So now you have a single huge 5.1 WAV you can create a CUE file (copy an existing one and edit in notepad etc) to enter the track start times and titles then I use tha cue and WAV in Foobar to convert to individual FLAC files.

Otherwise stay with 48kHz for those large DTS files.

 

[Robert van Diggele]

Hi LuvMyQuad, I ran into this 4GB lomit not so long ago too, while trying to convert Grace for Drowing bda. What I did was create an .mkv with MakeMKV. In AudioMuxer I first extracted the files in their native form. Only after exyracting I did a second run to convert to FLAC. i guess the trick is that AM can use the seperate files to do the conversion instead of breaking up one large files into the separete chapters.

About the 96/24 files extratced as 48/24. Perhaps you can use DVD audio extractor to demux the files. Those output files are, or should be, 96/24. After that AM can be used to convert to FLAC. It can be tricky sometimes. For some reason I am not able to convert an Opeth track from the recent Damnation reissue, By Pain I see In Others. 96/24 gives an error on only this track, the rest of the songs are converted fine.

Hope the above helps.

 

[HomerJAU]

Foobar will convert the .dts files from DVDAE to FLAC all at once (in parallel, faster) but DVDAE needs unprotected source like AM)

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I was just about to edit my post after I did more testing, to say I found another puzzle piece. Except for the 4GB limit thing. It all seems to be related to the copy protection. Apparently some of you are already aware of this. Thank you for all the comments and assistance.

I was able to make a DTS 24/96 to 24/96 flac conversion of a previously unsuccessful attempt. I first ran AnyDVD to neutralize the copy protection and left it running in the background. Then AM did its thing perfectly.

I think AM's refusal to parse is because it cant deal with the copy protection. Running makeMKV or AnyDVD removes the copy protection issue. The read errors may be due to the copy protection becoming validated again while trying to make a read. It just looks like a read error. I don't know how the copy protection removal is accomplished... a time limit... some system reset... and makeMKV might be a free substitute for AnyDVD to accomplish this purpose. Gotta do a few more conversions to be sure. Im gonna leave makeMKV open in the background to see if it works out.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Hi LuvMyQuad, I ran into this 4GB lomit not so long ago too, while trying to convert Grace for Drowing bda. What I did was create an .mkv with MakeMKV. In AudioMuxer I first extracted the files in their native form. Only after exyracting I did a second run to convert to FLAC. i guess the trick is that AM can use the seperate files to do the conversion instead of breaking up one large files into the separete chapters.

About the 96/24 files extratced as 48/24. Perhaps you can use DVD audio extractor to demux the files. Those output files are, or should be, 96/24. After that AM can be used to convert to FLAC. It can be tricky sometimes. For some reason I am not able to convert an Opeth track from the recent Damnation reissue, By Pain I see In Others. 96/24 gives an error on only this track, the rest of the songs are converted fine.

Hope the above helps.

I cant get makeMKV to produce anything better than 24/48 audio stream. I'm assuming that like DVDAExtractor, it is limited to extracting the 48kHz core DTS stream. If there is a way to get it to do 24/96, or to change its DTS decoder to one that supports the extended stream, please tell me. Perhaps it outputs higher resolution with a bda?

Using DVDAExtractor to demux DTS puts out an undecoded DTS stream... correct?

 

[Robert van Diggele]

I will try tomorrow with TAAB and makemkv to see what comes up.

Yes, DvdaE demux gives you a .dts file in 96/24.

 

[0tto]

This is gonna be a long read. Strap in.

I continue to struggle to get AudioMuxer (AM) to reliably make 24/96 flac transfers from DTS 24/96 DVDV sources. I have several thoughts on AM operation. It’s picky about the quality of the disks you use. Even unplayed new disks can trip it up. Disk read errors that might go totally unnoticed when playing the physical disk itself seem capable of stopping AM in its tracks (pun intended). It can also be a little buggy, even if the disks are in good shape. I have had more successes than failures. but the failures occurred in a strange variety of ways. To an extent, the same can be said for the successes.

My initial test rip was converting the 5.1 release of Jethro Tull – Thick as a Brick. It turned out to be a poor choice to start with and I have yet to get a 24/96 copy of the DTS stream of that disk. I think it could be an issue that is specific to that disk. I’m still trying. But after the half dozen attempts I made to transfer that title, I have come across a peculiarity that allowed me to successfully convert many other titles.

Here’s what WAS happening….

If I attempted to extract audio from a the TAAB DVDV with AM, after selecting a VTS*.IFO file, it attempted to parse, started the progress bar, but then quickly stopped the operation with no further indication of an error. Nothing gets loaded in the conversion window. The program doesn’t crash. It just stops.

i didn't mess with DTS files for so many years but your trouble makes me curious if that still as bad as it was decade ago.
so, i tried to extract and make flac from VIDEO_TS. everything went very smooth.
to make it short, for 5.1 DTS stream extraction i used tsmuxer and for flac, foobar.
extraction took me less than minute and about 7 mins. conversion to flac from 43:40 DTS stream "TAAB".
i remember how frustrating this kind of manipulation with DTS had been decade ago. wish such simple tools as today, was been then.

 

[ssully]

Multichannel tracks ripped to hard drive, played from numerous laptops with HDMI out to AVR HDMI in, running foobar 2k and WASAPI plugin. *NO PROBLEMS*. Not with lossless or lossy (DTS/Dolby Digital)..assuming your AVR decodes.

Really, it needn't be this difficult.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

i didn't mess with DTS files for so many years but your trouble makes me curious if that still as bad as it was decade ago.
so, i tried to extract and make flac from VIDEO_TS. everything went very smooth.
to make it short, for 5.1 DTS stream extraction i used tsmuxer and for flac, foobar.
extraction took me less than minute and about 7 mins. conversion to flac from 43:40 DTS stream "TAAB".
i remember how frustrating this kind of manipulation with DTS had been decade ago. wish such simple tools as today, was been then.

Wow Otto, that's a lot faster than I can convert with AudioMuxer. AudioMuxer takes about 25 mins per disk. You're sure you ended up with 24/96 flac files, yes?