Boy, they've been such a strong proponent of surround...who else provides detailed descriptions of the surround effects on each album?
I'm holding out hope...
I'm holding out hope...
New Flaming Lips "Embryonic"
- Thread starter elmer
- Start date
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Just want to clear something up here because a lot of people seem to have a little bit of a misunderstanding between the difference between DVD-A and DVD-V.
The Embyonic DVD will be a DVD-V as were there previous releases. I know this because they recorded it at 96k which is a video sample rate (multiple of 48) which means they recorded specifically to have the best resolution on a Video DVD. That also means that there is absolutely no degradation of sound quality on the DVD. If it was a DVD-A the resolution would most likely be 88.2k (multiple of 44.1 which is the sample rate on a CD).
It also means that the only degradation in quality comes from converting to the 44.1 sample rate on CD because it, not being able to divide 96k evenly, has an algorithm for which samples to drop thats uneven, rather than just taking every other sample (if it was 88.2)
But rest assured if they recorded at 96k, which they did, then DVD-V is the best format. And they planned it that way.
The Embyonic DVD will be a DVD-V as were there previous releases. I know this because they recorded it at 96k which is a video sample rate (multiple of 48) which means they recorded specifically to have the best resolution on a Video DVD. That also means that there is absolutely no degradation of sound quality on the DVD. If it was a DVD-A the resolution would most likely be 88.2k (multiple of 44.1 which is the sample rate on a CD).
It also means that the only degradation in quality comes from converting to the 44.1 sample rate on CD because it, not being able to divide 96k evenly, has an algorithm for which samples to drop thats uneven, rather than just taking every other sample (if it was 88.2)
But rest assured if they recorded at 96k, which they did, then DVD-V is the best format. And they planned it that way.
No, I don't think so. There may be some misunderstanding about what the contents and/or format on this disc is, but the main point that we all know and are disappointed about is that whatever the disc is, it doesn't contain 5.1 surround audio.
The dvd/cd 2 disc sets of their past 3 albums did contain dvd-a. The dvd-a disc did also have a dvd-v portion of it. They also contained 5.1 and stereo versions of the album on both the dvd-a and dvd-v portions of the disc. This disc is nothing like their past ones, no dvd-a, no 5.1 surround.
Where are you getting your facts? Dvd-a supports 96, 88.2, 48, and 44.1 kHz. Most commercially released dvd-a discs I've purchased contain 96kHz, that seems to be the standard, some contain 48.
Now, for the purpose of this disc, which is to have a high resolution 96kHz 24 bit version of this album, dvd-v is the better option. Only because of the compatibility. But as far as quality goes, I don't believe there would be any difference in quality whether it be on a dvd-a or a dvd-v, 24 bit 96 kHz audio is the same audio, whether it be contained on a dvd-v or dvd-a. But, as far as surround sound goes, dvd-a is the best, since it will allow 96kHz 24 bit lossless compressed 5.1 content, while with dvd-v, you are limited to lossy compressed 5.1, dolby digital or dts.
But, you missed the whole point of this thread, that point being there is no 5.1 on this disc, and we are disappointed in that.
I hope The Flaming Lips will realize this, and respond with a future 5.1 release of this album.
I know that the point is that theres no 5.1, believe me I'm bummed out too.
And I know that DVD-A supports all of those sample rates, but the main purpose behind creating the format was to have the ability to use sample rates that were multiples of the CD sampling rate so that we could have high definition and CD with a simple conversion rate (every other sample)
48k was the video sampling rate and thus high definition audio for video are multiple of 48.
I get my facts from my... masters degree in sound recording technology, my specialty from my thesis being in surround sound music, so I do know what I'm talking about. I just wanted the few people who thought it was a degradation in quality to know that DVD-V is actually the best format for the quality (and compatibility) in this case, so they could be happy about it.
And I know that DVD-A supports all of those sample rates, but the main purpose behind creating the format was to have the ability to use sample rates that were multiples of the CD sampling rate so that we could have high definition and CD with a simple conversion rate (every other sample)
48k was the video sampling rate and thus high definition audio for video are multiple of 48.
I get my facts from my... masters degree in sound recording technology, my specialty from my thesis being in surround sound music, so I do know what I'm talking about. I just wanted the few people who thought it was a degradation in quality to know that DVD-V is actually the best format for the quality (and compatibility) in this case, so they could be happy about it.
My comment about where are you getting your facts was towards your comment about 88.2, since I've rarely seen a dvd-a use it. But you are right that it supports it. You are right, your entire post was factually correct though. I never questioned the quality of the audio, and I don't see anyone else here questioning the quality or claiming a degradation, so that's why I was confused and felt you were missing the point.
Sorry to snap at you, but like you, I am also bummed out about the lack of 5.1.
And after checking, you are right that the past dvd-a discs do contain 88.2 for the stereo content. The surround content is in 96.
Sorry to snap at you, but like you, I am also bummed out about the lack of 5.1.
And after checking, you are right that the past dvd-a discs do contain 88.2 for the stereo content. The surround content is in 96.
Dont worry about it, I just saw one or two people saying something like "i hope they dont choose to degrade and go to DVD-V instead of DVD-A" so I wanted them to know they're getting the right thing.
I actually wrote a bit in my thesis praising the flaming lips for their constant support of 5.1 even though im sure they take a hit in the wallet. I'm assuming theyre not right away because its a double album, but I really hope that it will come out eventually.
I actually wrote a bit in my thesis praising the flaming lips for their constant support of 5.1 even though im sure they take a hit in the wallet. I'm assuming theyre not right away because its a double album, but I really hope that it will come out eventually.
Well, it isn't looking good, I did ask if there were plans for a future 5.1 release since people seem to be speculating that is the plan. But, it isn't, here's the reply.
Well, I’ll never say never, but certainly not in the near future. I wish it was as well, I love 5.1 – I just wish the public loved it as much.
SDB
So, there's your task. You, the public, need to continue letting the industry know of your love for 5.1. Keep sending those emails to Scott, if they don't get the demand for the 5.1 mix, they'll never be able to justify it. There's still hope....but we've got to push for it.
Well, I’ll never say never, but certainly not in the near future. I wish it was as well, I love 5.1 – I just wish the public loved it as much.
SDB
So, there's your task. You, the public, need to continue letting the industry know of your love for 5.1. Keep sending those emails to Scott, if they don't get the demand for the 5.1 mix, they'll never be able to justify it. There's still hope....but we've got to push for it.
I think the comments about degrading to dvd-v were based on people thinking it was going to be 5.1, and hoping that it would continue to be dvd-a, which is the only option for lossless 5.1, instead of degrading to lossy compressed options on dvd-v.
Ok, I have continued to exchange some emails with Scott. Apparently, while the band is all for 5.1 and wants to do it, while WB has pushed for surround in the past, at this time they are completely uninterested in surround. And that's where it is.
What can you do? Well, I don't know yet. Keep the emails coming into Scott, he has assured me he doesn't mind hearing from people who want 5.1. If anything, this gives them something to come back to the label with. I've asked if there's anything else we can do to get our voices over to the powers that be at WB that we want more surround, from Flaming Lips and others. I'll let you know if he comes back with any ideas or ways we can get our voice heard.
All I can say is, keep emailing people. As many of you know, I am always and constantly emailing labels, artists, and whoever, about these things. Many of my emails get ignored. But some don't. I've not exactly changed the world here, but if we keep it up, keep yelling, maybe eventually the labels will hear us. Even if we get nowhere, at least we can say we are trying.
What can you do? Well, I don't know yet. Keep the emails coming into Scott, he has assured me he doesn't mind hearing from people who want 5.1. If anything, this gives them something to come back to the label with. I've asked if there's anything else we can do to get our voices over to the powers that be at WB that we want more surround, from Flaming Lips and others. I'll let you know if he comes back with any ideas or ways we can get our voice heard.
All I can say is, keep emailing people. As many of you know, I am always and constantly emailing labels, artists, and whoever, about these things. Many of my emails get ignored. But some don't. I've not exactly changed the world here, but if we keep it up, keep yelling, maybe eventually the labels will hear us. Even if we get nowhere, at least we can say we are trying.
TennJed
Member
Picked it up today and am disappointed I didn't read into anything about the album, expected it to be in 5.1. Anyways is their a serious degradation in quality if I am to set my receiver to pro logic or any of the other audio settings that simulate 5.1?
Beer Monkey
Active Member
I LOVE the new album. Much better than At War with the Mystics, IMO.
I just emailed [email protected] to beg for a 5.1 mix.
I just emailed [email protected] to beg for a 5.1 mix.
TennJed
Member
Album is very good as a whole, but some tracks are very very weak, you know which ones I mean.
So different for the Lips, this one will scare away the legions of fans that started liking them because of commercial play, or their fun looking shows.
So different for the Lips, this one will scare away the legions of fans that started liking them because of commercial play, or their fun looking shows.
DKA
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
I agree that it's premature to assume that there will be no 5.1 of the album, and was one of those folks who bought their last three albums twice. We'll get there.
wanners
400 Club - QQ All-Star
There is a dts 5.1 version floating around the Internet that is listed as an upmix. If it is an upmix, it would be the best one I've ever heard. Let's just say, I don't believe it is an upmix.
Please don't ask me how to find it, but I'll give my comrades a hint -- they are big on hockey and vodka.
Please don't ask me how to find it, but I'll give my comrades a hint -- they are big on hockey and vodka.
DKA
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Yeah....I've heard that's a pretty good upmix as well. 
silvahalo007
Well-known Member
Anyone catch the new FL video? Crazy! Careful where you watch it...lots of nudity...
http://www.nme.com/video/bcid/49582897001
http://www.nme.com/video/bcid/49582897001
silvahalo007
Well-known Member
Just listened to it. That's one helluva "upmix"...
Wow ! thanks for drawing our attention to this unofficial DTS mix !
It's very discrete and is everything you would expect from a surround release by the Lips.
I liked the new album very much in stereo already (I have the limited edition with the DVD-V and the 96/24 stereo mix), but once again the surround mix is a revelation.
If some of you found a little too hard to get into this more experimental release, you may be very well convinced thanks to this surround rmix.
I guess the band itself organized the leak... now if only it'd come to high-rez on a proper DVD-A !
It's very discrete and is everything you would expect from a surround release by the Lips.
I liked the new album very much in stereo already (I have the limited edition with the DVD-V and the 96/24 stereo mix), but once again the surround mix is a revelation.
If some of you found a little too hard to get into this more experimental release, you may be very well convinced thanks to this surround rmix.
I guess the band itself organized the leak... now if only it'd come to high-rez on a proper DVD-A !
DKA
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
there's also a BDAudio version of the same upmix making the rounds, utilizing the 24/96 stereo versions, without any downsampling, from the DVD.
beached
Senior Member
WOW!!!. Thanks for the heads up for this one Wanners. I reckon this mix is definitely from somebody close to the Lips as it has all the trickery as in their previous efforts. Lots of swirly stuff here
@: Very discreet and smooth/precise panning. It's just a pity they seem to over sample so much (that drum sound. aaah!) that some times it gets to much for comfortable listening. With all this (intentional ?) distortion you really need DVD-A to get through it without severe ear fatigue.I could not imagine enjoying this in stereo. The hyperactive mix and a couple of the more melodic tracks are what make this a must have.
This surely must get an official release at some stage. Hopefully DVD-A.
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