HiRez Poll Newman, Randy - LITTLE CRIMINALS [DVD-A]

[LuvMyQuad]

That sounds like a very shallow filter - that's just over four octaves from 120 to 1000Hz, isn't it?

Regardless of that, it's nothing like the kind of bass signal that is normally in the .1 channel. Also, why would keys be in there too?

Yes, 4.5 octaves or so. Assuming a 12 dB/octave roll off starting at 120Hz, the output should be down by something like 54dB. Probably audible, but considerably lower in level, which is why I asked about the level. Maybe in some cases they simply process the LFE information without roll off or with something very shallow like you mentioned. At 6 dB/octave the signal is only down 27dB. But even so I would expect an LFE channel to begin rolling off lower than 120Hz. Its supposed to be for low frequency augmentation, not a substitute for bass management.

Actually I believe the lowest note on a piano goes down to under 30Hz. So why not keys? I would tend to think that in the case of music the low bass output of all information might get funneled to the LFE channel. Maybe for movie sound it is different, as they may just use the LFE for low frequency effects.

This is probably a good question for the "Ask Steven Wilson" thread.

 

[Franklin]

Thanks for the brush up - I studied filters years ago and rusty would be a generous way to describe it!

The keys were way louder than 30dB below reference level, which is a helpful reference (thanks!). The level of the keys in the sub complimented the centre channel that was playing at the same time.

 

[JonUrban]

I've noticed quite a lot of DVD-A's with full frequency stuff in the LFE channel, from artists like Neil Young (Harvest), Van Morrison (Moondance), and others I don't recall off hand. It's clear when you look at the wav files in an editor, and also if you pull that channel and paste it into an empty stereo file then listen to it by itself on a normal (non-sub) speaker and you hear guitars, horns, drums, and other stuff that somehow should not be there.

I believe when someone moans that an instrument or section of a surround mix is "missing" as opposed to the stereo mix, that missing bit might in fact have been mixed to the LFE channel.

 

[rtbluray]

The LFE channel should always be filtered, with the filter passing through everything below or at 80 or 120 Hz.
If there's full-range content in the LFE, then someone either forgot to filter it (which is the usual reason) or there is a channel mixup.
Most of the time, the mixing engineer will leave the LFE filtering to the mastering engineer, so if it doesn't get done, it could be because the mix that was released is a 'flat mix' as the mixing engineer mixed it, with no additional mastering afterwards.
However, if the mixing engineer knows the mix won't be mastered afterwards, they should filter the LFE themselves, although sometimes they will let the authoring engineer do it instead.

 

[privateuniverse]

Just pulled this one off the shelf after ignoring it for years. Short take: the mix is discrete, but use of the rears is frequently very subtle. There are exceptions. The mix on "Kathleen" has lots of cool synth textures going on in the rear channels. Harmony vocals (courtesy of The Eagles) on "Short People" and "Rider in the Rain" also sound wonderful coming from the rears. However, this philosophy was not used on "Baltimore." More often than not, the rear channels are used for less prominent elements like the occasional bongo or little guitar fill. It is enjoyable, but I just wish that a little bit more effort had been made when it came to placing things into the surround field.

As for the music, well.....Newman is one of my all time favorite songwriters and he's in his prime here. The liner notes on this reissue (written by a somewhat narcissistic author) focus on Randy's lyrical prowess. And Randy is an amazing lyricist. He can go from achingly beautiful ("I'll Be Home") to effective satire ("Short People") to poignant social commentary ("Baltimore") with great ease. However, like moist music journalists, what the author of the liner notes fails to appreciate is Newman's genius as a composer. His gift for writing complex melodies and chord progressions that sound so fluid is unparalleled. I am always in awe when I sit down at my piano to learn one of his songs. Nobody puts music together the way he does.

The music is top notch. The fidelity is clear. The mix is subtle but discrete. I'll shave off one point because I would have preferred a bit more use of the rears. The vintage clip of him recording "Short People" is a nice bonus. I'll go with a 9.

 

[marpow]

I voted 8. Just received this DVD A (my favorite format) 5.1 MLP 24/96 a few days ago. Sounds really god, music is great, big warm analog sound. I voted 9 instead of 10 because it is weak in the rears, but is still OK.

 

[GOS]

this is clearly a 10. I originally voted it a '7', but today I give it a '10'.

Hey @JonUrban, you can change your vote!

 

[edisonbaggins]

The LFE channel should always be filtered, with the filter passing through everything below or at 80 or 120 Hz.

And when the filtering produces delay all hell breaks loose on QQ!

 

[4-earredwonder]

Randy Newman once quipped "Thank God for the potholes on Memory Lane!" His rich baritone on Little Criminals and his satiric SHORT PEOPLE [Randy is 5'11"] portends a wonderful musical journey rife with wit and charm.

Randy has been nominated for 22 Academy Awards for his film scores, 22 Grammy Awards and 7 Golden Globe Awards and is the nephew of legendary Hollywood Film Composers Alfred and Lionel Newman.

His song "I Love LA" is played at LA's Dodger Stadium after every Dodger home victory game and I would heartily recommend Little Criminals. It really is a GAS!

I voted 9!

 

[JonUrban]

Hey @JonUrban, you can change your vote!

Good idea!

 

[quicksrt]

I'm happy with the 5.1 mix here, plenty of discreetness. I like the sound quality too. This album is simply not my favorite Randy album. It's good and the Eagles sound nice of course. A few lesser interesting tunes for me. It would be a 9, way up there but for it being short a couple of stronger songs. Maybe they will grow on me.