Pentatone REMASTERED CLASSICS - future?

[luketsu]

Hello everybody,

Although the future of this series is quite unclear right now I'm pretty sure PENTATONE is going to continue it also in 2018 as Beethoven's 9th from the Kubelik collection was not quick enough to catch up the bunch of this year.
2018 may bring these original quadraphonic recordings into their full glory for the following reasons:
1) All recordings listed below were properly recorded in discrete four-channel surround sound, so they are NOT my suggestions.
2) Few years ago, at the time this project was announced, PENTATONE promised Tchaikovsky's 'Pique Dame' for us. Because it looks like every year we have received a couple of operas this is very probable addition to the series.

Here they are (please note the release dates and the amount of the albums may change due to the other non-quad releases and license costs):

February 2018
REMASTERED CLASSICS Beethoven - Symphony No. 9 'Choral'
Helen Donath, Teresa Berganza, Wieslaw Ochman, Thomas Stewart, Bavarian Radio Chorus, Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks, Rafael Kubelik
Ludwig van Beethoven

REMASTERED CLASSICS Grieg - Lyric Pieces
Emil Gilels
Edvard Grieg

April 2018
REMASTERED CLASSICS Tchaikovsky - Pique Dame
Galina Vishnevskaya, Fausto Tenzi, Heinz Kruse, Peter Gougaloff, Bernd Weikl, Dan Iordachescu, Rudolf Alexander Sutey, Dimiter Petkov, Orchestre National De France, Mstislav Rostropovich, Choeur Tchaikovsky
Peter Ilyich Tchaikovsky

May 2018
REMASTERED CLASSICS Liszt - A Faust Symphony
Leonard Bernstein, Kenneth Riegel, Tanglewood Festival Chorus, Boston Symphony Orchestra
Franz Liszt

REMASTERED CLASSICS Ravel - Daphnis et Chloé (complete ballet) & Rapsodie espagnole
Seiji Ozawa, Boston Symphony Orchestra
Maurice Ravel

August 2018
REMASTERED CLASSICS Berlioz - Roméo et Juliette
Seiji Ozawa, Julia Hamari, Jean Dupouy, José van Dam, New England Conservatory Chorus, Lorna Cooke DeVaron, Boston Symphony Orchestra
Hector Berlioz

November 2018
REMASTERED CLASSICS Schubert - Winterraise
Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, Daniel Barenboim
Franz Schubert

We'll see how well I have succeeded to foresee the exact choices. If you want to support this project and its continuation it is recommended to purchase albums through PENTATONE online shop - www.pentatonemusic.com - despite the prices are there far more expensive than elsewhere (e.g. Amazon or Presto Classical). Every order will be a considerable help for them. I have purchased many albums this way and they have been grateful.

 

[ubertrout]

No idea if this will be accurate, but these are all good choices. I assume Pentatone is also going to release the 3rd from the Kubelik Beethoven cycle.

I'm definitely interested in anything Pentatone can get from the BSO recordings - the use of quad in these recordings is a model of how it should be used in my opinion. The Pique Dame isn't that high on my list, but it's been on your list for quite some time now, so I won't discourage it.

To be honest, while I welcome pretty much anything from the Philips or DG vaults, the use of quad in a lot of these recordings aside from the Boston ones is really tame - still interesting and worthwhile, but I'd prioritize recordings where at least some discrete activity in the rears is going on. I recognize that's part of why the BSO recordings are heavily represented on your list, and would add the recordings William Steinberg made, both the famous Planets/Also Sprach Zarathustra records (which might be unlikely given it's actively in print) as well as the Hindemith recording, where the odds might be better.

Mostly, I try to keep an open mind and welcome surprise as to what we get next. Keeps the disappointment away and allows for plenty of pleasant surprises. And Dutton is giving us Columbia/RCA classical quads as well, so life is good.

 

[luketsu]

I agree with you, Ubertrout, everything what you said is true. However, I'm pretty surprised that DG missed a great opportunity to release the Boston quad recordings as such on Pure Blu-ray Audio - the October upcoming release list includes a huge box set that consists all the recordings (both new and old) made with the orchestra. But because they decided to proceed on this way we have a small hope that they have planned to give these for PENTATONE for SACD production.

Now we have another interesting question. Concerning to these Boston Symphony recordings most of them were produced by Thomas (Tom) Mowrey who was one of the pioneers of surround sound at that time. In his interesting booklet notes Mowrey told that they built a recording control room in the hall about the same time when Rafael Kubelik was recording his highly energetic view of Smetana's Ma Vlast with the orchestra (in March 1971). From here on until in 1976 - and most likely a little bit after that - every recording session that took place at the hall used the advantages of 4-channel tapes. In the other words every recording included an intermediate surround sound mix. Of course they had done random multichannel recordings earlier - Strauss and Holst sonic blockbuster with William Steinberg was such an example - but now this recording method took a considerable step further.

Speaking about multichannel mix the engineers decided to utilize its possibilities in a different way. As I mentioned before and as far as I know Mowrey was the only guy who really wanted to make 360-degree sound fields. For instance when I heard Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique (PTC 5186211) for the first time I was stunned for its cinematic effect. Close your eyes, forget the lack of centre and LFE and let the surround sound carry you in the middle of symphonic narrative elements (thunder, shepherd pipes, falling guillotine blade, death bells, dancing witches...).

Most engineers were far more conservative when making the alternative multichannel mix. The rear channels were understood just to reproduce the acoustics of the recording venue and they were mixed according to this view. Opera recordings were expectional tasks. As we surely know in addition to this ambience feeling the extra rear speakers were used to create "a movie without a picture", to reproduce theatrical effects marked in the score. I have not heard Pique Dame in surround but I strongly believe that the trumpet fanfares from afar, the arrival of the ghost and the background noises in the gambling house (all in Act III) were captured into rear channels.

 

[ubertrout]

I agree with you, Ubertrout, everything what you said is true. However, I'm pretty surprised that DG missed a great opportunity to release the Boston quad recordings as such on Pure Blu-ray Audio - the October upcoming release list includes a huge box set that consists all the recordings (both new and old) made with the orchestra. But because they decided to proceed on this way we have a small hope that they have planned to give these for PENTATONE for SACD production.

Now we have another interesting question. Concerning to these Boston Symphony recordings most of them were produced by Thomas (Tom) Mowrey who was one of the pioneers of surround sound at that time. In his interesting booklet notes Mowrey told that they built a recording control room in the hall about the same time when Rafael Kubelik was recording his highly energetic view of Smetana's Ma Vlast with the orchestra (in March 1971). From here on until in 1976 - and most likely a little bit after that - every recording session that took place at the hall used the advantages of 4-channel tapes. In the other words every recording included an intermediate surround sound mix. Of course they had done random multichannel recordings earlier - Strauss and Holst sonic blockbuster with William Steinberg was such an example - but now this recording method took a considerable step further.

Speaking about multichannel mix the engineers decided to utilize its possibilities in a different way. As I mentioned before and as far as I know Mowrey was the only guy who really wanted to make 360-degree sound fields. For instance when I heard Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique (PTC 5186211) for the first time I was stunned for its cinematic effect. Close your eyes, forget the lack of centre and LFE and let the surround sound carry you in the middle of symphonic narrative elements (thunder, shepherd pipes, falling guillotine blade, death bells, dancing witches...).

Most engineers were far more conservative when making the alternative multichannel mix. The rear channels were understood just to reproduce the acoustics of the recording venue and they were mixed according to this view. Opera recordings were expectional tasks. As we surely know in addition to this ambience feeling the extra rear speakers were used to create "a movie without a picture", to reproduce theatrical effects marked in the score. I have not heard Pique Dame in surround but I strongly believe that the trumpet fanfares from afar, the arrival of the ghost and the background noises in the gambling house (all in Act III) were captured into rear channels.

I would have zero expectation DG would have released the Boston recordings on their own as Quads...after an early exploration of their quad archives for greatest hits about 15 years ago for SACD/DVD-A, they haven't shown any interest since. The Steinberg/Boston recording The Planets and Also Sprach Zarathustra was supposed to be a stereo-only BD-Audio, until the High Fidelity Pure Audio program was cancelled. DG views BD-Audio as essentially a stereo medium, with the exception of the Kleiber box set. No disagreement otherwise.

 

[surroundophile]

"For instance when I heard Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique (PTC 5186211)"
Please provide more info on this. I may be interested, but can't find it.

 

[skherbeck]

I have 2 SACDs from this series and the surround quality is wonderful... Berloiz "Symphonie Fantastique" (Ozawa) and Bach "Brandenburg Concertos" (Zukerman). This thread reminded me how great these discs sound so I just ordered 16 more of these... ended up costing about $10 each after applying Amazon gift cards (yes, I know I should have ordered from Pentatone, but I didn't have a Pentatone gift card!)

 

[skherbeck]

"For instance when I heard Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique (PTC 5186211)"
Please provide more info on this. I may be interested, but can't find it.

Here it is on Amazon for less than $10:

https://www.amazon.com/Berlioz-fant...2&keywords=berlioz+symphonie+fantastique+sacd

 

[ubertrout]

Here it is on Amazon for less than $10:

https://www.amazon.com/Berlioz-fant...2&keywords=berlioz+symphonie+fantastique+sacd

Yup. They're price-matching B&N's classical sale this month, so don't expect the prices to stay that low.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Yup. They're price-matching B&N's classical sale this month, so don't expect the prices to stay that low.

Not a Pentatone remastered DGG Classic, but a recent release of Ravel on Pentatone SACD multichannel: http://www.audaud.com/ravel-daphnis...nique-du-luxembourg-gustavo-gimeno-pentatone/

Only $11.99 from Amazon. Just ordered a copy.

 

[ubertrout]

Not a Pentatone remastered DGG Classic, but a recent release of Ravel on Pentatone SACD multichannel: http://www.audaud.com/ravel-daphnis...nique-du-luxembourg-gustavo-gimeno-pentatone/

Only $11.99 from Amazon. Just ordered a copy.

Yup - that one just arrived today. Under the sale, nothing is over $12 for a single disc, pretty much.

 

[luketsu]

We should not forget that DG recorded everything quadraphonically from 1971 until 1976. The main microphone array was used for the front channels. In addition to this there were few microphones at the backside of the hall in order to capture the ambience into the rear channels.

Long time ago I saw a rare photo taken from the recording sessions of 'The Damnation of Faust' at Boston Symphony Hall. There were a huge chorus, huge orchestra, singers and - of course - Seiji [Ozawa], standing in the front of this group. The microphones followed more or less the configuration described earlier.

If PENTATONE get access for these personally I look forward to hear Liszt's 'A Faust Symphony' in surround beside Tchaikovsky's Pique Dame. It was recorded in July 1976 using 8-track 1-inch tape at the Symphony Hall in Boston. In those days Lenny [Leonard Bernstein] was at the peak of his powers and recorded a fiery interpretation of the score for the next generations.

You may wonder where I have received all of these information. Well, in his memoirs - available to read online - Thomas Mowrey revealed some very interesting facts on his recording projects for Deutsche Grammophon. Moreover I was lucky enough to discuss with him for a while concerning to the quadraphonic recordings of DG. Because Bernstein's recording of 'A Faust Symphony' has been some kind of first choice for me I wanted to know the possibilities to release it in quad as Mowrey produced the album (one of the last productions what he did for DG before he signed a contract with Decca). Because recorded this way the original multichannel mix could be revealed on 'DSD Multi' layer of Super Audio CD.

Up to this day REMASTERED CLASSICS consist 24 albums. I don't know how many recordings Deutsche Grammophon is willing to give for PENTATONE for remastering but I assume their agreement includes approximately 50 albums. That would be enough to satisfy our need, I think, and the amount is large enough to offer as comprehensive collection as possible. If everything goes as I have speculated the last album to the REMASTERED CLASSICS to be released in 2020 or in 2021. PENTATONE has changed its management for a bit and most likely they have different opinions compared to the old one. But as I said earlier we just have to wait and see what they have planned for the next few years.

 

[ubertrout]

We should not forget that DG recorded everything quadraphonically from 1971 until 1976. The main microphone array was used for the front channels. In addition to this there were few microphones at the backside of the hall in order to capture the ambience into the rear channels.

Long time ago I saw a rare photo taken from the recording sessions of 'The Damnation of Faust' at Boston Symphony Hall. There were a huge chorus, huge orchestra, singers and - of course - Seiji [Ozawa], standing in the front of this group. The microphones followed more or less the configuration described earlier.

If PENTATONE get access for these personally I look forward to hear Liszt's 'A Faust Symphony' in surround beside Tchaikovsky's Pique Dame. It was recorded in July 1976 using 8-track 1-inch tape at the Symphony Hall in Boston. In those days Lenny [Leonard Bernstein] was at the peak of his powers and recorded a fiery interpretation of the score for the next generations.

You may wonder where I have received all of these information. Well, in his memoirs - available to read online - Thomas Mowrey revealed some very interesting facts on his recording projects for Deutsche Grammophon. Moreover I was lucky enough to discuss with him for a while concerning to the quadraphonic recordings of DG. Because Bernstein's recording of 'A Faust Symphony' has been some kind of first choice for me I wanted to know the possibilities to release it in quad as Mowrey produced the album (one of the last productions what he did for DG before he signed a contract with Decca). Because recorded this way the original multichannel mix could be revealed on 'DSD Multi' layer of Super Audio CD.

Up to this day REMASTERED CLASSICS consist 24 albums. I don't know how many recordings Deutsche Grammophon is willing to give for PENTATONE for remastering but I assume their agreement includes approximately 50 albums. That would be enough to satisfy our need, I think, and the amount is large enough to offer as comprehensive collection as possible. If everything goes as I have speculated the last album to the REMASTERED CLASSICS to be released in 2020 or in 2021. PENTATONE has changed its management for a bit and most likely they have different opinions compared to the old one. But as I said earlier we just have to wait and see what they have planned for the next few years.

The Bernstein recording of the Faust Symphony is an obvious choice. There's no real SACD version of the piece, Bernstein's is excellent, and it was an active quad production. It was released under "The Originals" series, but is now out of print (albeit available cheaply), and is only made available now by streaming. But licensing never seems to be that simple.

 

[luketsu]

I didn't have a Pentatone gift card!

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[luketsu]

An important correction to the list above: Schubert's Winterreise and Grieg's Lyric Suites were probably recorded in quad. They were added to the list because otherwise there would have not been chamber music. They were just my suggestions. Sorry for any misunderstandings. Grieg was recorded in June 1974 at the Jesus-Christus Kirche, Berlin, and was produced by Guenther Breest. According to the recording date the sessions most likely utilized the advantages of multichannel tapes as 4-channel sound was living its heydays at that time. Schubert's Winterreise was recorded in January 1979 at Studio Lankwitz, Berlin, and because taped so late it did not - probably - take advantage of surround sound although random 4-channel recordings were made after 1976 (source: Wikipedia). In short: both recordings were added to the list inferring potential surround sound mix using recording dates and names of the producers as the source.
Other recordings - except for Tchaikovsky's Pique Dame - were produced by Mr. Mowrey and were properly recorded in quad. They can be found in his discography at Discogs. Moreover we should not expect with zest to receive any of those recordings beside Beethoven's 9th as it looks like - referring to Ubertrout - that the spirit has been gone from PENTATONE with this project.

Whatever the RC releases in 2018 will be the year to be most likely the last year of the quad remasters, I think.

 

[ubertrout]

FYI, the pre-order for the Beethoven 9th is now online (https://www.pentatonemusic.com/beethoven-9-kubelik-brso), but Pentatone hasn't issued a peep about other quad releases. They may still surprise us, but the label's new owners seem to be moving in the direction of signing major artists who have already had contracts with major labels (Pierre-Laurent Aimard and now recently Alisa Weilerstein) and focusing on new recordings. This isn't a bad thing at all, but it's a little disappointing to see the pathway to getting unreleased quad mixes released close. At a bare minimum it would be great to see someone pick up the torch and get the rest of the DG quad recordings from Boston released, which to my mind were an incredible discovery. Also, getting Kubelik's Beethoven cycle finished with the Eroica would be nice.

 

[McCrutchy]

It's really a shame, as I would have liked to see them release more remastered operas in quad, if that were possible.