Long post alert!
this is a pick up from the (out of place) discussion in the Surround Poll for "Versions of the Truth" where Splinter7 asked me a question about my input into the mix. I explained that it was a little more than usual, mainly because we had the time to polish it a lot, and after a brief discussion with Bruce we thought it would be fun to post a set of the feedback notes that I sent to Bruce during the play testing sessions, and it seemed more appropriate to post them here rather than clogging up the poll!
There are three main sets of notes: Two on V1 and V2 of "Versions of the Truth" and one on V1 of "Alternate Versions" which I have collated here. There were, in addition, a few odd exchanges back and forth about some points, but it would be too much effort for me to extract these from my e-mail and they don't add a lot.
It goes without saying (but I'll say it anyway) that what
you hear is the final version, so you (hopefully) won't be able to pick up on any of the points, because they were pretty much all changed to be in line with the feedback. Also, the timings I mention may be different to the released version, but because any of the tracks changed in length but because any leading sliences would have been cut out before mastering (I can't remember if there were any/many, but it does happen.)
I hope it's of interest and demystifies, some of what goes on during play testing!
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Versions of the Truth V1 feedback
General
Sub level seems fine – checked it on both systems with and without bass management and generally it’s good. Noticed some slightly high bass levels in individual tracks – see track notes below for details.
I found the overall mix to get a little less polished as the tracks went on, particularly noticeable on the last three or four, and it’s mainly the lead vocal that seems to suffer. It gets quite muddy, resonant and sounds a little over-driven in the last three or four tracks. May be worth checking what’s going on in the signal chain and having a closer look. This was noticeable on my main system, but, in fact, sounded okay on the second, more commercial system.
The vocal throughout could use a touch more presence, though be careful because there’s already some sibilance and resonance (noted on individual tracks below) that could be made worse by EQ.
I also thought there was a bit of variation in track level/energy – in general it seems to get louder as the album progresses. So, by the time I’m at the end I’m thinking about turning the volume down.
1.Versions of the Truth
I thought the lead vocal got a little lost after 04:40 maybe it and the backing could do with a lift after this point. There was a hint of distortion in the vocal around 04:02, maybe have a look at the signal chain.
2.Break it All
The sub was fine, in fact I think you could push it a bit more on those dives, if you wanted too.
Maybe put some of that guitar slide around 02:15 to 02:30 into the rears?
3.Demons
Lift vocal a tad (and/or a touch more presence) and I though the harmonies could be lifted a bit too.
I like the falling guitar riff around 02:10, but thought that and the answering phrase in the rears could benefit from a bit more edge and maybe a very slight lift.
Also, as a suggestion, see what it’s like with the ride cymbal (?) and maybe even the toms that start at 02:40 on the breakdown to the rears. Maybe lift the cymbal a touch.
4.Driving Like Maniacs
See if you can get that opening vocal “aaaaahhh-ahhhh” to open up a tad more in the surround field.
The lead vocals need work on this one. It needs “something” either a lift or some more presence, *BUT* (at the risk of contradiction) there’s a touch too much resonance in it too. It may be that the vocal is fighting other stuff in that frequency space where it’s resonant, if that makes sense? The bass percussion may be a touch heavy which wont help.
The choral bits sound great, but, again, see if you can open them up even more in the surround field. Big impact.
5.Leave Me Be
The vocal on this one sounded a little over-done/over driven on this one – the sibilance on the “get-you” (the “choo” sound) is a touch overdone. (again, sounds more so on my main system than the “consumer” one) Maybe detected a little distortion on the vocal too, so check the signal chain.
6.Too Many Voices
Again, I thought, the lead vocal was a little “muddy”
Anything you can do to give even more separation to the “too many voices” would work really well (it sounds great, but try and make it even more “enveloping” for maximum impact!
7.Our Mire
The vocal on this one is sounding a touch “harsh” and over driven (on my main system) eg 02:57 to 03:28.
Backing vocals could do with a lift.
Maybe do something in the surround field with that distorted guitar around 03:20
And see what it’s like with the hats around 05:30 in the rears, or just lifted a little?
8.Out of Line
At the start, the vocals/backing vocals are both in the fronts. See what it’s like with the backing vocals in the rears.
I think the guitar is hot when it comes in at 01:07
9.Stop Making Sense
Bass may be a little high on this one?
Check the balance between the lead and backing vocals
Versions of the Truth V2 feedback
Hi Bruce!
Played the V2 mixes loads over the weekend. I have some comments, but they're pretty minor. All of the main issues are fixed.
General comments
Much better than the first version, particularly the later tracks. No real major issues or showstoppers, so consider what follows as “detail”
Really enjoying the album, BTW as is my other half!
1 Versions of the Truth
Nudge the harmonies in the rears down a fraction. Less than a db, probably much less than a db. However, they’re fine after 04:50 so keep them at the same level at the end.
2 Break it All
Sub still sounds fine, so you could lift it further if you wanted to really push it.
3 Demons
I really like that ride and the toms in the rear at the breakdown, but the toms move to the front maybe just a bar or two later. Maybe try leaving them in the rears and switch them to the fronts when the vocal harmonies come in the rear at around 03:27. Not sure if that would sound better, but give it a try if you have time.
4 Driving like Maniacs
I’m finding the kick a little heavy on this, particularly the first minute or so.
7 Our Mire
There's some keys in the rear in which are a little bit hot. More so on my main system than the second system. There are multiple phrases throughout the song where they're there at the same level, but as an example 00:53, 01:00, 01:07 , in fact the earliest phrase may be before that 00:27, 34, 42, 50 then later at 02:10 etc and 04:55. Have a listen and see if you think they need nudging down, just a tiny bit.
8 Out of Line
Okay, on this track and the next two you’re using a low vocal harmony. On this one you’ve kept it in the front centre. I was going to suggest putting it in the rear, but as I have said on the feedback below for the next two tracks I’m not really finding it works in the rear – it sounds too disjointed from the main vocal.
So as a general suggestion; treat the low harmonies and high harmonies separately. The low ones should stay near the main vocal, either in the centre, or you could try bleeding them into the FL/R to give a touch of separation, but if that makes them disjointed just leave them with the main vocal. The higher harmonies sound fine in the rears.
9 Stop Making Sense
As I mentioned above, I don’t think having the low harmonies at the start and 01:20 in the rear works. Particularly on this track as the harmony itself is a bit muddy. As suggested above put it back with the main vocal or try bleeding a touch in the FL/R to give a bit of space.
Also the bass line at 01:50 is coming across slightly heavy on my bass managed system. It’s fine on the second system that doesn’t have a sub.
10 The game
Again the low harmonies aren’t really working in the rears and sound a bit muddy too. The higher harmonies work fine in the rears, so maybe split them up. Keep the low lines close to the lead and leave the high lines in the rears.
11 The Swell
The repeating keyboard “hits” or stabs in the rear maybe slightly hot. This was more noticeable on my main system with the rear speakers slightly behind.
Also, the level of the track is a touch low compared to the others, maybe 1-2 db?
Alternate Versions of the Truth V2 feedback
Hi Bruce!
wow! That's extraordinary! In a good way, I mean - completely unexpected and quite different.
No howlers that I could spot, but a few things to "tweak" if you have time. I've also got some suggested levelling, based on the first track as a reference:
1 Break it all
Levelling: Reference
Consider nudging the percussion in the rears down a db or so. It sounds *great* but a tad out of balance with the fronts?
Also; there's a lot of bass energy in there, which I know is what you're going for but it was sounding right on the edge of being too boomy on my second system. It's not the sub, it's the bass in the stereo channels. Not a major problem if you want to stick the dub sound!
2 Driving
Reference: I reckon you could boost this by 3bd louder to bring it into line with the reference (even accounting for it being a quieter track.)
Again, consider nudging the percussion in the rears down a db or so. It sounds *great* but a tad out of balance with the fronts?
Also; (again) there's a lot of bass energy in there, which I know is what you're going for but it was sounding right on the edge of being too boomy on my second system. It's not the sub, it's the bass in the stereo channels. As before not a major problem if you want to stick the the dub sound!
And there's a section towards the end where the percussion focus switches from the rears to the fronts and then back to the rears after a couple of bars. Is this intentional?
3 Voices
Reference: I reckon you could boost this a db louder than the reference.
Again, a lot of bass energy in the fronts.
4 Leave Me Be
Reference: I reckon you could boost this 3 dbs louder than the reference.
Bass energy was fine on this one
There's a guitar line in the RR at 03:15 that you may want to check and possibly nudge down slightly.
5 Our Mire
Reference: I reckon you could boost this 3 dbs louder than the reference.
(the tag on the .flac has the wrong track number)
Consider nudging the percussion in the rears down a db or so. It sounds *great* but a tad out of balance with the fronts?
Quite a bit of silence at the end
6 Demons
Reference: I reckon you could boost this 3 dbs louder than the reference.
Consider nudging the percussion in the rears
and front down a touch - for example there's an electronic "cowbell" that comes across a bit hot.
7 Versions of the Truth
Reference: I reckon you could boost this 3 dbs louder than the reference.
Consider nudging the percussion in the rears down a db or so. It sounds *great* but a tad out of balance with the fronts?
There's a falling synth line (I think it's probably triggered percussion) at 04:10 that's pretty hot. You may want to dial that down a few db?
Again; there's a lot of bass energy in there, which I know is what you're going for but it was sounding right on the edge of being too boomy on my second system. It's not the sub, it's the bass in the stereo channels.
