Pink Floyd "Dark Side Of The Moon" Blu-ray disc failure

[Simon_LDT]

Bit slow I know but just tried my disc in my Oppo BDP-83 and it plays fine. I only sampled the first 3 tracks of the 5.1 but no issues at all. I haven't tried to rip it yet but I did rip all the hi-res stereo tracks about 6 months back to use with my digital streamer and no issues there either and loaded fine in my BD burner drive.

It's the Optimal disc too...

Maybe it's only a specific batch which is affected?

 

[Strawdog]

I posted earlier on this thread that I think Universal discs are susceptible to problems like the DSotM disc - well, another Universal Disc has gone 'fussy' on me, namely 'Death Race' (the disc is from 2009). My Panasonic DMP 60 (from 2009) cannot read the disc at all; my Sony UHP-H1 (from 2016) plays the disc without any fault. Facts of the situation:

1. Both players have bang up-to-date firmware.
2. In all likelihood, both players have clean reading heads (the Panasonic plays 99% of discs in my collection; my room has very few dust-producing objects like blankets; I do not smoke).

Deduction:

1. This is not classic disc rot - if it was, there would at the very least be audio/video drop outs when I play it on the Sony. There were NONE. The information layer is to all intents and purposes fine.

Conclusions (therefore, possible explanations):

1. The problem lies with the players - low quality reading heads cannot deal with certain discs. PROBLEM WITH THIS CONCLUSION - most of us (all of us?) were able to play these discs at some point in time on players which no longer play them. So, it is still possible that the discs have changed as much as it is possible that the players have changed (e.g., 'wear and tear' through usage).

2. How could the discs have changed if we exclude disc rot? A thought has occurred to me - blu-ray discs have a scratch-resistant covering which was specially developed for them called 'Durabis' (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durabis). What if certain batches of 'Durabis' are somehow compromised - maybe they 'age' badly and become slightly opaque, meaning only higher quality reading heads can still work with them? This would explain why we are seeing problems over time which do not correspond to classic disc rot.

Thoughts?

 

[neil wilkes]

Personal opinion here.
I suspect it is indeed to do with the coating - with Blu-ray the one thing I always worried about was the focal length is only 0.1mm against 0.6 (IIRC) for DVD and CD - a fingerprint can throw this out of whack with the lasers and my guess is that there is something up with the coating on the disc..
Is the disc spotlessly clean? If a cleaner has been used is it in any way abrasive?

I will dig out my DSoTM BDA and check it.

 

[DuncanS]

I'd go with the coating's opacity (at the laser frequency) changing as it ages/reacts with the air as well, that coupled with such a small focal length (that Neil mentions) would make the discs unplayable. However, BDA discs failing after a couple of years is not on it shouldn't happen. I've some of the first CD releases so 30+ years old which still play, as they should..............wouldn't happen with vinyl :ugham: I've been lucky with my reel-to-reel tapes.....so far

 

[César]

Personal opinion here.
I suspect it is indeed to do with the coating - with Blu-ray the one thing I always worried about was the focal length is only 0.1mm against 0.6 (IIRC) for DVD and CD - a fingerprint can throw this out of whack with the lasers and my guess is that there is something up with the coating on the disc..
Is the disc spotlessly clean? If a cleaner has been used is it in any way abrasive?

I will dig out my DSoTM BDA and check it.

Hello Neil

There's no noticeable defect on the disc surface. Perhaps it's a little bit more wavy than other blu-rays, but WYWH looks more or less the same as Dark Side and plays fine.

Someone else on SHF had this theory about the coating and suggested cleaning carefully the disc. I tried (had nothing to lose anyway) with no results.

Thanks Neil!

 

[seilerbird]

A laser beam produces heat. The disc is plastic coated in plastic. Does anyone expect it to work forever?

 

[seilerbird]

oops

 

[drphibes]

A laser beam produces heat. The disc is plastic coated in plastic. Does anyone expect it to work forever?

effectively, yes. I wouldn't expect the laser to produce enough heat to damage the plastic. If it did, it would be a design flaw.

I have some 30 year old CDs that play as well as the day I bought them.

 

[Strawdog]

Every disc I have mentioned having problems with in this forum was either clean (I am more than OCD with my discs, trust me), or they were very carefully cleaned with professional, non-abrasive fluid. It made no difference whatsoever.

Yes, in theory, heat and plastic don't mix. In practice, if this were the cause, we would have seen a much bigger, more general wave of disc failures by now. We have not. Indeed, at the risk of repeating myself, I think I have identified a particular label as having a specific problem (Universal). Moreover, as others have said, many/most very old CDs (30 years+) and DVDs (approaching 20 years) play fine - this would contradict the 'laser/heat' thesis somewhat.

What I could imagine is that maybe a faulty batch of Durabis does react badly to laser heat, triggering a decline in readability caused (probably) by increased opacity.

The question is, can anyone find any scientifically demonstrated cases of Durabis failure? Forums like this are great at showing that there is a problem, but not good at 'proving' what the cause might be.

 

[Deek57]

A laser beam produces heat. The disc is plastic coated in plastic. Does anyone expect it to work forever?

Actually, yes. I do expect the DSOTM BD to work forever, the BD WAS the reason I bought the Immersion box. No other BD's in my collection have failed to play so why this one, at effectively an almost £100 disc, failure is not acceptable. I'm not at all happy at this situation in fact I'm furious. The worst thing is that i doubt there will ever be a resolve, it's really #>*"ing annoying...

 

[arnold_layne]

I just tested mine in my Oppo BDP-103. Played perfectly.

In a previous post I also mentioned I was able to do a full ISO rip of the disc in MakeMKV using a LG BH14NS40 BD drive.

BTW my disc is stored inside it's hard paper sleeve in the box set with all the original contents. So I can't see "gassing" of the packing contents to be the issue.

 

[seilerbird]

I guess then that all lasers produce exactly the same amount of heat, none of them are ever damaged, the coatings on all discs are identical and never break down.

 

[Franklin]

If laser is such an issue why have we not heard of fires or melted discs where CDs have got stuck when someone's in another room? How come laser turntables don't have a reputation for burning vinyl?

 

[GOS]

I've probably said this already...and I realize it's NO consolation to anyone who truly has disc issues...

I've been at this "disc" thing forever and I have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of discs of every kind. I've not once had any issue with any of them playing correctly.

So - it might sure seem like it's either faulty discs, or some other oddity. Again, I know. I know. I sympathize.... I'd be furious as well, especially if it were something not very old. :yikes

 

[drphibes]

I guess then that all lasers produce exactly the same amount of heat, none of them are ever damaged, the coatings on all discs are identical and never break down.

Hyperbole does not help your argument. The lasers don't have to produce the same amount of heat, they just have produce a small enough amount that nothing gets damaged. No one said "none of them are ever damaged", obviously defective disks are suffering damage from something, be it the laser or exposure to air. The coatings on discs need not be identical, they merely need to protect the information containing layer. If the coating did break down, that implies a defect or design flaw.

Nearly all discs last indefinitely without the problems you're describing. The ones that don't would seem to contain a defect by definition.

 

[spl23]

Add me to the list of people with an unplayable DSOTM Bluray...

Tried to play mine on my Oppo BDP-105 this afternoon, and it wouldn't load. I then tried on two PS3s (one original, one slimline) and the Samsung DVD-ROM drive in my PC - none of them could even see the disc.

As soon as I bought the set, which was on day of release in 2011, I removed all the discs from the box and stored them in Case Logic sleeves - I don't trust cardboard sleeves for long-term storage. The disc worked fine when it was new, and there is no sign of physical damage to it at all, although it does have a strange "moire" like effect when you look at the playing side - lots of rainbow-coloured lines running around the disc which is not a feature of any other disc I own. I can't remember if it was like that when new. It's the European Optimal pressing.

I've emailed [email protected] and [email protected] this afternoon to raise the issue, linking to this thread and asking for a replacement. I've also contacted the SuperDeluxeEdition website and the Brain Damage Floyd fansite.

For the time being, I have managed to <ahem> acquire a rip of the disc from a torrent site, but I think Universal (or whoever owns EMI this week) need to be replacing these discs for people; for a disc to die after 5 years in a set costing £100 isn't really on...

 

[Hattipper]

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/the-hidden-phenomenon-that-could-ruin-your-old-discs

Article about disc rot...

 

[Franklin]

Woah, don't have nightmares kids!

 

[dr. simple]

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/the-hidden-phenomenon-that-could-ruin-your-old-discs

Article about disc rot...

Holy shit.

Thanks for sharing. I've spent the past two months ripping blu rays, DVDAs, SACDs, DVDs, and CDs for this very reason. I actually ripped the last of my blu rays this morning (okay, I skipped "Oz, The Great and Powerful" because the last time I watched it realized I never wanted to see it again).

 

[HomerJAU]

Holy shit.

Thanks for sharing. I've spent the past two months ripping blu rays, DVDAs, SACDs, DVDs, and CDs for this very reason. I actually ripped the last of my blu rays this morning (okay, I skipped "Oz, The Great and Powerful" because the last time I watched it realized I never wanted to see it again).

The worry is that one of my BDA failures is from a relatively recent release: Bob Marley Legend from 2015 (not that old at all).

All my MCH audio discs and BDV's are now backed up.