Poll: What's your current Atmos speaker layout?

[Sal1950]

Still chaps my ass these people think they could/did influence the buying of so many. oh I used to read the responses in Stereophile until I wanted to just puke.

Things have totally run off the rails in High End la-la land.
They speak completely to a luxury goods market composed of people where money is of no object.
None of which bares any relation to real world audio performance in the home.

 

[barfle]

When center speakers were the latest “big thing,” I noted that side-by-side speakers would have a screwy radiation pattern in most rooms, and wrote a letter to one of the magazines asking if the experience would be improved overall if the speaker were oriented vertically, or if perhaps having speakers above and below the TV might be a better solution. Man, did I get slammed!

Admitted, I’m not a trained acoustic engineer, but I have studied the physics of phased arrays and (similarly) column speakers, but whoever answered that letter must have thought he was the infallible pope of acoustics, and was so full of BS that I pretty much quit bothering with such advice.

Today, my fronts are identical, although the center is almost on the floor.

 

[Sal1950]

Admitted, I’m not a trained acoustic engineer, but I have studied the physics of phased arrays and (similarly) column speakers, but whoever answered that letter must have thought he was the infallible pope of acoustics, and was so full of BS that I pretty much quit bothering with such advice.

You know the ole saying, you just can't fix stupid. LOL
Lobing issues are well known with MTM designs. Having a horizontal MTM is just the physical arrangement that works best/easist for many folks in a system with video. But hay, MTM designs have the same lobing issues with vertical orientations and attention needs to be paid to keeping the ear close to on axis with the tweeter.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

When center speakers were the latest “big thing,” I noted that side-by-side speakers would have a screwy radiation pattern in most rooms, and wrote a letter to one of the magazines asking if the experience would be improved overall if the speaker were oriented vertically, or if perhaps having speakers above and below the TV might be a better solution. Man, did I get slammed!

Many years ago when I decided to move from my quad system to a Dolby surround system for movies, I was told that a full range single driver speaker was the way to go for the centre channel.

There were quite a few full range single driver speakers available back in those days, however the main problem with any speaker was how it screwed with your CRT television. Something that's not a problem today...

 

[Sal1950]

There were quite a few full range single driver speakers available back in those days, however the main problem with any speaker was how it screwed with your CRT television. Something that's not a problem today...

That brings back memories! My first rig that had a center channel used original Paradigm Titans and I had to order a special "shielded" version for the center as it sat on top of my old Mitsubishi 35" CRT. Just for giggles I tried one of the std unshielded and it distorted the hell out of the picture if I got it anywhere too near the TV. This was a good little system back in the day (mid 1990s) but I never did care for the di/bipolar rears mounted high on the side of the room.. Good enough for ambiance only type sources but lacking for discrete surround. They were highly rated in a couple places, that's why I got them, but not by me. LOL
Off topic I know, sorry.

 

[PK]

OK this is bitchin'...a little center speaker convo...I'm in the dark on this stuff...I think what got me wondering was @MTB Vince pics of his speakers...I'll watch the video etc...

I got my hopes up too soon...Maybe it's just this thread...

 

[barfle]

Many years ago when I decided to move from my quad system to a Dolby surround system for movies, I was told that a full range single driver speaker was the way to go for the centre channel.

There were quite a few full range single driver speakers available back in those days, however the main problem with any speaker was how it screwed with your CRT television. Something that's not a problem today...

Well, I can't put my center channel at ear level in the center of my LCD screen! I'm considering a projector so I can use a larger screen and get the center, well, centered at ear level, but I just got done spending $6,000 on gear so not just yet.

 

[Sal1950]

Well, I can't put my center channel at ear level in the center of my LCD screen! I'm considering a projector so I can use a larger screen and get the center, well, centered at ear level, but I just got done spending $6,000 on gear so not just yet.

Whatever your using now, if you haven't already just attempt to tilt the speaker so the tweeter points to ear level at the MLP as much as possible.. I did that with both the old HSU and newer JBL that are mounted underneath the TV.
We can only do, what we can do.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Well, I can't put my center channel at ear level in the center of my LCD screen! I'm considering a projector so I can use a larger screen and get the center, well, centered at ear level, but I just got done spending $6,000 on gear so not just yet.

Very interesting thread even if has diverted from strictly Atmos speaker set ups. I have very close sounding Infinity Kappa floor standers for my four main "quad" speakers. I graduated from the RPTV club quite some time ago to a nice Panasonic projector & an 8' screen. Not huge but still quite cinematic.

My solution using a center front was unique. It's a basement room 13' x 24' with a drop ceiling at 7'. So that means my screen is centered equally top to bottom giving 18" top and bottom for a center front speaker.

At first I did it the easy way putting a BIC 6.5" two way on the floor under the screen. Problem with this was it really sounded like the audio was coming from the floor. So then I tried it above the screen. I inverted the speaker so tweeter is on the bottom. Attached chains to the cabinet & floor joist above the drop ceiling. I used large rubber grommets between the chain & ceiling joists for some isolation. Now the sound really appeared to be coming from the ceiling. And not in a good kinda Atmos way.

So the solution was to use both speakers high & low hooked in parallel. The center front is tightly focused & seems to come from the middle of the screen.

My Infinty speakers have excellent phantom center front imaging so using the center front is strictly optional. It is more likely to be used on movies with multiple people in the room, or to adjust vocals on music so they aren't buried in the mix. If it's something as a 5.1 SACD I will listen to it as such. If it's stereo through the Surround Master then probably 4.1.

 

[mandrix]

After adding another TV/Monitor to my system I was forced to move the Center to a shelf above the TV. I have it tipped, or propped up about 2" in the back to aim better, if not perfectly so, at the MLP.
After calibrating the system it's working fine for me. It's the only placement position I had available in any event.
The center is about 5'ish ft. in front of my MLP. I don't think I'm missing much. BUT...

as soon as I am able I will tackle trying to get the speaker tipped even more. The shelf is just barely deep enough, and I don't need that heavy piece floating off the shelf and destroying it or my TV.

 

[barfle]

Whatever your using now, if you haven't already just attempt to tilt the speaker so the tweeter points to ear level at the MLP as much as possible.. I did that with both the old HSU and newer JBL that are mounted underneath the TV.
We can only do, what we can do.

It's tilted, and the sides are toed in. Of course, the center tweeter is at the top, so it's as close as I can get it without it being behind the TV.

 

[barfle]

Very interesting thread even if has diverted from strictly Atmos speaker set ups. I have very close sounding Infinity Kappa floor standers for my four main "quad" speakers. I graduated from the RPTV club quite some time ago to a nice Panasonic projector & an 8' screen. Not huge but still quite cinematic.

My solution using a center front was unique. It's a basement room 13' x 24' with a drop ceiling at 7'. So that means my screen is centered equally top to bottom giving 18" top and bottom for a center front speaker.

At first I did it the easy way putting a BIC 6.5" two way on the floor under the screen. Problem with this was it really sounded like the audio was coming from the floor. So then I tried it above the screen. I inverted the speaker so tweeter is on the bottom. Attached chains to the cabinet & floor joist above the drop ceiling. I used large rubber grommets between the chain & ceiling joists for some isolation. Now the sound really appeared to be coming from the ceiling. And not in a good kinda Atmos way.

So the solution was to use both speakers high & low hooked in parallel. The center front is tightly focused & seems to come from the middle of the screen.

My Infinty speakers have excellent phantom center front imaging so using the center front is strictly optional. It is more likely to be used on movies with multiple people in the room, or to adjust vocals on music so they aren't buried in the mix. If it's something as a 5.1 SACD I will listen to it as such. If it's stereo through the Surround Master then probably 4.1.

My screen is as low as I can get it and not block my center channel speaker, and it's about right - center is just a bit above eye level in the MLP. Earlier today on another thread, I mentioned that I had made a suggestion to have two center speakers, one above the screen and one below it, and you would have thought I was suggesting putting the speakers under water or something. While I never tried that, it seemed like a good idea back then, and I still think it's a good idea.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

My screen is as low as I can get it and not block my center channel speaker, and it's about right - center is just a bit above eye level in the MLP. Earlier today on another thread, I mentioned that I had made a suggestion to have two center speakers, one above the screen and one below it, and you would have thought I was suggesting putting the speakers under water or something. While I never tried that, it seemed like a good idea back then, and I still think it's a good idea.

I missed your comment about that. But one speaker above, one below, is exactly what I did & it's worked out perfect for me.

I've read with interest the earlier comments about using a D’Appolito design turned on it's side for center front. This and variations of it of course very common for HT center front. My biggest concern about this is that the more you spread the audio out left/right, the less focused the center is. Using two smallish speakers like I did, sitting vertically, and centered over each other eliminates this.

 

[ar surround]

My screen is as low as I can get it and not block my center channel speaker, and it's about right - center is just a bit above eye level in the MLP. Earlier today on another thread, I mentioned that I had made a suggestion to have two center speakers, one above the screen and one below it, and you would have thought I was suggesting putting the speakers under water or something. While I never tried that, it seemed like a good idea back then, and I still think it's a good idea.

I missed your comment about that. But one speaker above, one below, is exactly what I did & it's worked out perfect for me.

I've read with interest the earlier comments about using a D’Appolito design turned on it's side for center front. This and variations of it of course very common for HT center front. My biggest concern about this is that the more you spread the audio out left/right, the less focused the center is. Using two smallish speakers like I did, sitting vertically, and centered over each other eliminates this.

Two identical small speakers centered vertically above and below the TV usually works. Just don't try placing them directly side by side or you can easily get comb filtering issues. Ask me how I know this.

 

[AYanguas]

Two identical small speakers centered vertically above and below the TV usually works. Just don't try placing them directly side by side or you can easily get comb filtering issues. Ask me how I know this.

I have a 122'' projector screen at my Home Theater.

The Center speaker is located below the screen, and the inconvinience can be worse than with a TV for dialogue in films than for music.

So I implemented the "dialogue lift" with a signal mixer feeded by the AVR pre-outs of Center Speaker and Center Height (from Auro-3D). The output goes to a small Amp to the Center Height speaker.

With the potentiometers of the mixer I can adjust the amount of Center signal that goes to Center Height, so I can have a "copy" of the Center sound above and tune the height sound location.

It works perfectly and I get good Center elevated sound, when it is required.

For Auro-3D listening (different signal channels for Center and Center Height) I put the Center mixed signal to zero, to have the clean Auro-3D Center Height signal.

https://www.amazon.com/Rolls-MX51S-Four-Channel-Stereo-Mixer/dp/B0002BG2S6
https://www.amazon.es/SA-50-T-AMP-Amplificador-Digital-Clase/dp/B00GEU6D8S

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Two identical small speakers centered vertically above and below the TV usually works. Just don't try placing them directly side by side or you can easily get comb filtering issues. Ask me how I know this.

How do you know?

 

[jimfisheye]

So according to the poll the overwhelming 'Atmos' set-up currently consists 7.1.4 speakers with 73 votes, followed 5.1.4 speakers with 56 votes. Amazingly only 4 votes went to 7.1.6...

I think music mixes end up being more idiosyncratic to the speaker array they were mixed on. When one is being deep dive critical anyway. Which is precisely what surround sound listening is all about, right? This isn't casual listening. This is "something's probably wrong with you" OCD front row to the action obsession!

So let's see. Dolby says minimum 7.1.4 system and also mentions 9.1.6. Check. What are the big gun mixers making these mixes on then? Parsons, Clearmountain, Wilson, etc all went with 7.1.4. (Haha, right. That went something like... 9.1.6?! Oh, 7.1.4 is the minimum? Yeah ok, I'll upgrade from 5.1 to 7.1.4 then!) Right, so the new surround mixes are mostly 12 channel mixed on a 7.1.4 system. From the big guns anyway. Check! 7.1.4 it is!

That was my thinking and I imagine quite a few others. I wanted to hear the new 12 channel surround mixes the big guys were doing. I could care less about movie mixes and how they translate around. I'll probably only bother to listen to any movie in stereo anyway like always. That's nice for them though.

 

[AYanguas]

I think music mixes end up being more idiosyncratic to the speaker array they were mixed on. When one is being deep dive critical anyway. Which is precisely what surround sound listening is all about, right? This isn't casual listening. This is "something's probably wrong with you" OCD front row to the action obsession!

So let's see. Dolby says minimum 7.1.4 system and also mentions 9.1.6. Check. What are the big gun mixers making these mixes on then? Parsons, Clearmountain, Wilson, etc all went with 7.1.4. (Haha, right. That went something like... 9.1.6?! Oh, 7.1.4 is the minimum? Yeah ok, I'll upgrade from 5.1 to 7.1.4 then!) Right, so the new surround mixes are mostly 12 channel mixed on a 7.1.4 system. From the big guns anyway. Check! 7.1.4 it is!

That was my thinking and I imagine quite a few others. I wanted to hear the new 12 channel surround mixes the big guys were doing. I could care less about movie mixes and how they translate around. I'll probably only bother to listen to any movie in stereo anyway like always. That's nice for them though.

I think there is a broader panorama than the minimally 7.1.4 mixed channels.

I have 9.1.4 (with Wides) and I confirm that there are quite a few Atmos mixes that make use of Objects in the Wide positions and that, in my room, I clearly perceive the more “Wide” sound, that stands out in a differentiating way from the frontal or side sound.

For example, Steven Wilson started with exclusively 7.1.4 mixes, but has evolved to placing content in the “Wide” location. Even if Wilson or other mixers have a studio with 7.1.4 speakers, if they use Atmos Objects in the position around 68º azimuth, installations that have 9.1.4 will clearly use the Wides channels.

Bruce Soord has also evolved quite a bit in mixing making extensive use of Wides for main vocals. I also have many other albums that do this.

Regarding the Top Middles (x.1.6) I guess something similar will happen, when the mixers place objects along the ceiling. But I can't check it because I only have 9.1.4 in my room.

Ultimately, the more speakers the better, up to 9.1.6, but of course it depends on the mix each mixing engineer makes. For example, Bob Clearmountain makes fantastic mixes in 7.1 but barely makes use of the Ceiling Tops.

But I continue to confirm that both on Blu-ray and streaming there is quite an abundance of Atmos mixes that make use of the Wides (9.1.4) in a fairly extensive and effective way.

 

[jimfisheye]

The comments from 9.1.x listeners have not gone unheard, FYI.
I'm 7.1.4 here and will stay that way for probably a good while. I just turned in an Atmos mix with object use to hit the 'wide' channels when listening in 9.1.x.

Everyone posting comments around that? It worked!