Random Stuff About Surround Sound

[kfbkfb]

http://pspatialaudio.com/Disc_NR.htm
I was about to email Pspatial Audio to suggest creating an all digital dbx decoder, but they already have.
(I don't know if it can be cascaded the Pspatial Audio QS decoder)


Kirk Bayne

 

[jaybird100]

Quad era - Direct Cut Disc era (same time frame):

I was just thinking about this again (in view of the new QS encoded EP mentioned above), the same consumer electronics mags that covered Quad extensively also covered Direct Cut Discs extensively, but I don't recall a single instance where the Direct Cut Disc makers were asked about using a Quad matrix encoder in the production of Direct Cut Discs.

They could have used the original Scheiber matrix or EV Stereo-4, both of which just use phase reversals (simpler circuits), they would have decoded fairly well w/DynaQuad/Stereo-4/QS.

Anyone ever run across any info about using a matrix encoder in the production of Direct Cut Discs?


Kirk Bayne

There weren't any. This new EP is the first one.

 

[chucky3042]

Maybe this thread needs a new title?

 

[Owen Smith]

Maybe this thread needs a new title?

Random stuff about surround sound?

 

[Quad Linda]

Maybe this thread needs a new title?

Chucky, any suggestions

 

[chucky3042]

Chucky, any suggestions

I think Owen nailed it!!

 

[Quad Linda]

Done

 

[timbre4]

So what's the thread about. I note there is a comments about vaccinstion/covid thread

The Comments Inspired by SM3 thread was to drag all the NON-SM3 comments away from the true SM3 thread so members interested in real SM3 news didn't have to wade through so much unrelated content. There is NO free-for-all thread on QQ for the simple reason it is off topic and goes sideways real quick.

 

[fredblue]

Here are a few old dbx Quads (haven't heard too many of these though)...

https://www.discogs.com/release/19177939-Franz-Schubert-Symphony-No-9-In-C-Major-D-944-The-Great
https://www.discogs.com/release/794...waczewski-Petrouchka-The-Love-For-Three-Orang
https://www.discogs.com/release/4047003-Maurice-Ravel-Daphnis-Et-Chloe-Ma-Mere-LOye
https://www.discogs.com/release/596...ny-Orchestra-Thomas-Schippers-Richard-Strauss
https://www.discogs.com/release/794...-Louis-Symphony-Orchestra-A-Slavonic-Festival
https://www.discogs.com/release/894...estra-Walter-Susskind-Also-Sprach-Zarathustra
https://www.discogs.com/release/8950550-Ravel-Vlado-Perlemuter-Piano-Music-Record-One
https://www.discogs.com/release/932...ra-Pictures-At-An-ExhibitionNight-On-Bald-Mou
https://www.discogs.com/release/113...s-de-Menasce-Erik-Satie-Hugues-Cuénod-Geoffre

some of these are on SACD (i have the Mussorgsky and Ravel MFSL's) and the discrete mixes are ambient surround, so just a kinda heads up really if you're not a fan of that style of mixing for Classical Music

 

[par4ken]

The Comments Inspired by SM3 thread was to drag all the NON-SM3 comments away from the true SM3 thread so members interested in real SM3 news didn't have to wade through so much unrelated content. There is NO free-for-all thread on QQ for the simple reason it is off topic and goes sideways real quick.

Many of us were rather enjoying that thread! I guess that you have to draw a line somewhere though.

 

[timbre4]

Many of us were rather enjoying that thread! I guess that you have to draw a line somewhere though.

Bingo. It’s enough work to keep this place running with the intended topics. Veering into controversy adds to the chores. If it’s that good, think of an alternate messaging path other than QQ.

 

[chucky3042]

At least we can all now rejoice in the super duper new thread name!

 

[kfbkfb]

There weren't any. This new EP is the first one.

Right, I'm just surprised that none of the interviewers/article writers (back in the 1970s) for the major consumer electronics mags (USA, Canada, Western Europe) asked the Direct Disc makers why they didn't use a matrix Quad encoder when recording their content Direct to Disc.

A DynaQuad or EV Stereo-4 matrix Quad encoder could easily be built with vacuum tubes (IIRC, as some Direct Cut Disc makers preferred; all vacuum tube electronics providing RIAA EQ etc.)

QS (and SQ) hardware matrix Quad encoders had quite a lot of circuitry to implement the 90 degree phase shifts, perhaps that was a deterrent to using QS/SQ for Direct Cut Discs (possible "coloration" of the audio).


Kirk Bayne

 

[par4ken]

Right, I'm just surprised that none of the interviewers/article writers (back in the 1970s) for the major consumer electronics mags (USA, Canada, Western Europe) asked the Direct Disc makers why they didn't use a matrix Quad encoder when recording their content Direct to Disc.

A DynaQuad or EV Stereo-4 matrix Quad encoder could easily be built with vacuum tubes (IIRC, as some Direct Cut Disc makers preferred; all vacuum tube electronics providing RIAA EQ etc.)

QS (and SQ) hardware matrix Quad encoders had quite a lot of circuitry to implement the 90 degree phase shifts, perhaps that was a deterrent to using QS/SQ for Direct Cut Discs (possible "coloration" of the audio).


Kirk Bayne

I remember Direct Cut Discs being a thing in the late seventies early eighties, after the Quad thing had largely passed. So I'm not surprised that they don't seem to exist.

 

[Quadmon]

Was checking Amazon yesterday and noticed there were only two Sony x800 players listed. There were 20 a week ago. Also the X1100, if you can find one, is around $1200.

 

[jaybird100]

I remember Direct Cut Discs being a thing in the late seventies early eighties, after the Quad thing had largely passed. So I'm not surprised that they don't seem to exist.

Another possible reason would be the difficulty of mixing four channels on the fly. While they could, conceivably do the mix during a rehearsal, invariably, nothing gets played exactly the same way twice. Today's technology allows the process to be easier.

 

[MidiMagic]

Another possible reason would be the difficulty of mixing four channels on the fly. While they could, conceivably do the mix during a rehearsal, invariably, nothing gets played exactly the same way twice. Today's technology allows the process to be easier.

I have done it.

We were making CDs of weekly performances, not direct-to disc LPs, but I mixed all of them in RM surround sound on the fly.

I usually used the same pannings week to week for the same parts, so the setup was usually about the same. I just had to find extra pannings when they brought in extra parts (e.g. a dulcimer).

I usually used the same pannings to make an RM/stereo-compatible recording:

Center Front: Lead vocal, bass, drumkit
Left Front: Lead guitar
Right Front: Rhythm guitar
Left Side: Keyboard
Right Side: Percussion and extra instrument
Left Back: Left half of backup vocals
Right Back: Right half of backup vocals
Center Back: Reverb effects
Stereo channel strip: Surrfield mic hung 20 feet above audience

I used the encoding method I described earlier

 

[jaybird100]

I have done it.

We were making CDs of weekly performances, not direct-to disc LPs, but I mixed all of them in RM surround sound on the fly.

I usually used the same pannings week to week for the same parts, so the setup was usually about the same. I just had to find extra pannings when they brought in extra parts (e.g. a dulcimer).

I usually used the same pannings to make an RM/stereo-compatible recording:

Center Front: Lead vocal, bass, drumkit
Left Front: Lead guitar
Right Front: Rhythm guitar
Left Side: Keyboard
Right Side: Percussion and extra instrument
Left Back: Left half of backup vocals
Right Back: Right half of backup vocals
Center Back: Reverb effects
Stereo channel strip: Surrfield mic hung 20 feet above audience

I used the encoding method I described earlier.

Since most of the great direct-to-disc recordings were made back in the 70's and 80's, I was referring to the technology available back then. Your method sounds interesting. Where could I hear some of your work?

 

[MidiMagic]

Since most of the great direct-to-disc recordings were made back in the 70's and 80's, I was referring to the technology available back then. Your method sounds interesting. Where could I hear some of your work?

I wish I could provide it..

The problem is that I do not own the recordings. They belong to the band I recorded and the lead vocalist. That band disbanded 20 years ago. The songs were written by the lead vocalist, and I have lost track of him.

I could always do it again with another band.

 

[kfbkfb]

I tried some of the early to mid 1970s Direct Cut Discs (actually, the CDs made from the analog master tapes) of both "THE MISSING LINC" and "I've Got the Music in Me" [Sheffield Lab] thru DPL decoding, not much surround content in either, I'll try DynaQuad soon (the lack of logic circuits directing the sound may make an improvement).


Kirk Bayne