DVD/DTS Poll Renaissance - TURN OF THE CARDS [DTS DVD]

[rtbluray]

Please post your thoughts and comments on this 2020 reissue of the classic Renaissance album "Turn of the Cards".
This 4-disc deluxe edition from Esoteric & Cherry Red Records includes a DVD with a brand new 5.1 surround mix of the album.

 

[Infomas]

So, this is my first poll vote and it looks like I'm the first one to vote on this album. Content-wise, this is a 10. It was a brilliant album in the 70's and it holds up nicely today. The additional 1974 concert is a great addition. It's the mix that brings the number down to an 8. It's not a bad mix, but it isn't a good one either. In fact, if someone told me this was just an upmix, I wouldn't be surprised. There is nothing discrete about it. Even the center channel, where you might expect Annie to be singing out of, has very little going on. Still, the sound quality is still there. It sounds as potent as the day I first dropped a needle on it.

 

[beerking]

I am very pleased that I am not the first to post a review of this release. I mentioned on the release thread that the mix is lacking and 'Infomas' has reaffirmed my initial impression.
In my view not enough care was given into the overall surround effect and this has severely dampened the Box Sets presentation.
I have just compared my amateur upmix with this mix and, to my ears, it's showing what could have been achieved.
Such a Shame
It is not all doom and gloom, as the rest of the Set has very good stereo recordings , along with the live concert.
My score reflects my disappointment.
I hovered over the 8 but in the end, I've given it a 7, as I really should not have to produce my own mix to get an acceptable result.

 

[H.A.L.]

Currently listening for the first time (just arrived today) -- gave it an 8, as the material is classic Renaissance (in fact, the beginning is a bit like ELP & Yes's love child, lol).

I find the separation is not bad at all -- maybe because at my computer desk, where I'm currently typing, I'm receiving the fronts in my left ear and the rears in my right ear. Quite discreet listened to that way!

Annie Haslam, as usual, has a wonderful voice. If you like her at all, this is a must-get.

 

[sharkshark]

Clarity is great on the surround mix, but not DVD-A depite the logos on the front, and the mix feels a bit lackluster. 7/10 is still a positive grade, but hardly the stuff of surround legend on first listen.

ps. Listening as a "quad" layout - surround channels directed towards my back speaker thanks to my custom xlr switch - with side surround it's dire, but mixed "in the round" it's far more alive.

 

[Beefalo]

Clarity is great on the surround mix, but not DVD-A depite the logos on the front, and the mix feels a bit lackluster. 7/10 is still a positive grade, but hardly the stuff of surround legend on first listen.

ps. Listening as a "quad" layout - surround channels directed towards my back speaker thanks to my custom xlr switch - with side surround it's dire, but mixed "in the round" it's far more alive.

Welcome back to the QQ forum sharkshark !

 

[beerking]

Welcome back to the QQ forum sharkshark !

Good spot Beefy....

 

[sharkshark]

heh, thanks... didn't realize I hadn't posted in so long

"Things I Don't Understand" is on second listen a pretty decent, Quad-y and lush mix. Guitars/bg Voc in rear, and at 21m when the melotron-like harmonies kick in in back it does nice to open it up. What's I guess frustrating is that they've not done a particularly good job in filling in the middle of the soundstage (typical for 4ch layouts, of course). Black flame has the bass mixed Front/C, with the rest spread out as far as possible. EQ wise it sounds decent, I have to say - not too flat as the record goes on, capturing the effervescence of Annie's vocals, if drowned in a bit too much reverb.

 

[ogrequad]

I feel like I’m listening to a different mix than everyone else - this sounds fantastic to me! Yeah, it’s not perfect but I think it’s plenty discrete and certainly enveloping. Similar in a lot of ways to the Barclay James Harvest mixes but much, much better, as it doesn’t have the loud center speaker vocal issue that plagued the BJH releases.

I wasn’t overly familiar with the album before I just listened, but it kinda blew me away. Can’t wait to dig into the live discs!

I’ll vote 9!

 

[hi-res_edition]

First listen was good, moderate immersion, interesting spread of piano across the soundscape. I actually felt that the center channel was a bit hot. SQ is nice. A couple of sweet ear candy moments too.

 

[humprof]

Put me in the letdown camp.

This isn't my favorite Renaissance album to begin with (that would be A Song For All Seasons), but I enjoyed getting reacquainted with it, just the same, and I'm looking forward to hearing the famous "Academy of Music" show. The liner notes don't add much to the package, sadly--heavy on banal facts and anodyne quotes. The whole package is a decent enough value, though; the price came down to $32 by the time it shipped.

Fidelity is fine, and it's nice to have everything in high-res, but as with so much orchestral prog of the day, the sound is really "wet" (see below).

The surround mix is the real disappointment. As people have said: if we'd known ahead of time that half the tracks were upmixes, then maybe expectations wouldn't have been so high. And if the upmixes were better, we'd probably be more forgiving. But as Ryan pointed out, two of the three upmixes are effectively double-stereo. While the genuine surround tracks are better, IMO they're workmanlike though not especially subtle or creative, plus the rear channels are awash in reverb of Haslam's vocals. (Granted, the original stereo mix is heavy on reverb, too. Still.) All six tracks are opened up a bit in 5.1. On the whole, though, after three listens and a half-hour's worth of A-B comparison, I'm not sure I don't ultimately prefer the high-res 2.0 played back in "all-channel stereo." 7-8-7 = 7.

 

[rusinurbe]

1st time owning this album the only other Renaissance album I own is A song for all seasons.
Quite a nice album, and while the mix is tame it's not as bad as I had been expecting from the comments on the forum. I guess my expectations had been set very low.
Not a high score for it but not too bad. I'll give it a few more listens first.

 

[sunra]

Which songs are up mixes and which are discrete surround?

 

[rusinurbe]

Difficult to tell as it's quite a conservative mix. My guess would be the three that were mixed in stereo on disc 1

 

[humprof]

Which songs are up mixes and which are discrete surround?

Difficult to tell as it's quite a conservative mix. My guess would be the three that were mixed in stereo on disc 1

Yes: sorry--I was misremembering which thread @rtbluray's post about this was in. He hears Tracks 1, 2, and 5 ("Running Hard," "I Think of You," and "Cold Is Being"--the same three tracks that have new stereo mixes on Disc 1--as upmixes, with 5 sounding better & more active than 1 and 2.) I would concur.

 

[sunra]

So Things I don’t understand, Black Flame, and Mother Russia are discrete?

 

[humprof]

So Things I don’t understand, Black Flame, and Mother Russia are discrete?

Yes. I edited the above post to clarify.

 

[marpow]

I voted 7. Not really my kind of music, proggy with a woman's voice doesn't really grab me, a little too soft for my tastes. The surround can sometimes elevate me past the music, but not in this case. The surround, 5.1, 24/96, I listened at a moderate level. I also listened in Pure Direct Mode. The center channel strictly for lead vocal. The mix was definitely more immersive (stereo/stereo) than discrete (different parts playing different speakers).
The mix I would have done a little different. The mixer seemed to like rear left and front right when trying to do discrete things. There are definite moments of discrete music but not a constant. The DR per track are 12's and 13's except Track 5 drops to a 9 which the center vocal swings a little right. The final track Mother Russia seems to be the most discrete during the last two minutes.
I am however able to appreciate the complexity of the music, I would say the piano is the overall star of the show.
Sorry, I tried but ultimately not a fan. I'll admit I struggle with Prog Rock so unless it is a Prog Rock band of the higher echelon, I am not easily impressed. Therefore I won't waste my time with the 2.0.

 

[Lastingspaces]

I have always loved the album and rate the content high. I was not super impressed with the surround mix as it sounded a bit thin and lacking in clarity to me, so I gave it a 7. With that said, I am happy to have this set and be able to play it with no regrets.

 

[Beefalo]

I have always loved the album and rate the content high. I was not super impressed with the surround mix as it sounded a bit thin and lacking in clarity to me, so I gave it a 7. With that said, I am happy to have this set and be able to play it with no regrets.

1st post Lastingspaces ?
Welcome to the QQ forum !