Rhino to Release Doobie Brothers QUADIO Edition! (ARCHIVE THREAD)

[Scott65]

Yep - New 5.1 mix from the original multis by Elliot Scheiner.

and a great mix too.

 

[Beefalo]

Yep - New 5.1 mix from the original multis by Elliot Scheiner.

How does the original quad mix compare to
Scheiner's gem ?

 

[Scott65]

... the mix of Black Water often remarked upon as the surround highlight ...

i havent heard the quad mix, but the stereo CD of the song Black Water sounds great through the Surround Master.

 

[sjcorne]

How does the original quad mix compare to
Scheiner's gem ?

They're both good (and very discrete), but I think Scheiner's 5.1 mix fills the space better, if that makes sense? For instance, in "China Grove" on the 5.1 you get guitars in the fronts, piano in the back, and the end solo in the center. In the quad version, you get one guitar in front right, the other in rear left, and isolated tambourine in right rear. The end guitar solo also springs from the right rear channel. Another good example would be "South City Midnight Lady" - In the quad, all the vocals are in the front channels, but on the 5.1 the lead is upfront and the harmonies are mixed to the rears.

 

[steelydave]

I agree: Vices is "peak early DBs" for me. I actually find Stampede the least enjoyable of the three: to my ears, it's a comparatively "loud" album, with lots of reverb. And I'm sure the numbers won't bear me out, but I think the music on that album generally has a narrower DR, too. Still: If I liked Stampede and Toulouse Street as much as I like Vices, I would probably rate them all equally, or nearly so.

Once the remastered, high-res Blu-Ray versions finally materialize, I'll probably change my rankings all over again!

I don't think Stampede fares any better or worse than Vices DR-wise (they're both around DR13, IIRC) but if it does have a shortcoming compared to Vices, it's that there's a same-iness to the songwriting on the album. On the Let the Music Play Blu-Ray documentary that came out a few years back one of the band members comments on the album (I think it may have been Tiran Porter) that he felt this way too, and attributed it to the lack of input from Tom Johnston, who was starting to fall in to the grips of the drug addiction that would see him leave the band shortly after Stampede was released. Also interestingly, he suggests that that album basically showed that contrary to the purist belief that Michael McDonald "ruined the band" when he joined the following year, that the original incarnation was running out of creative steam and that they probably would've broken up if something didn't change.

Having said that, I really love Stampede - after Vices, it's probably my second favourite of the pre-McD Doobies albums. I always felt like Stampede was the Doobie's "country" album, the way Vices was their "R&B" album - but with both albums, the synthesis is so effortless that it just sounds like a Doobies album until you start consciously asking yourself what kind of influences the album bears. Between Chicago VIII and Stampede, I seem to have become something of an advocate for some of these LPs that are maligned because they don't have enough hits on them, but for me albums like these are the rewards you get for digging deep into a band's back catalog. They may not have been hits, but songs like Texas Lullaby, Sweet Maxine, Music Man and Rainy Day Crossroad Blues all have the classic early-era Doobies sound, and for all the accusations of sounding the same, I think for me the highlight of the album is I Cheat the Hangman, which builds to a kind of demented crescendo of horns and voices and while still sounding like the Doobies, it also sounds like no other song they ever did. I'd take Stampede over the "hit" The Captain and Me anyday - Captain may have the hit singles, but for me the rest of the album (aside from maybe Ukiah and South City Midnight Lady) is kinda patchy. For me, hit singles are kinda like a desert, whereas good albums are like a satisfying meal - so yeah, I enjoy having a couple of pieces of Captain and Me cake every now and then, but I find the three-course meal that Stampede (and of course Vices) provides much more satisfying.

I also think that just by virtue of being the last of the bunch of quad LPs that the Doobies did that Stampede is also the best sounding one, thanks both to the continual march of recording technology, and also thanks to the band and Ted Templeman (and the WB engineering staff) perfecting their craft over the years. I also think Stampede has some of the best double drumming the band ever recorded - a lot of it is in such perfect sync that in the stereo mix it's not immediately obvious that it's two drummers, but in the quad mix the two kits are spread around the room so it's easier to hear the two guys playing off each other. I think those are the kinds of revelations that make listening to surround mixes so rewarding.

 

[fredblue]

I don't think Stampede fares any better or worse than Vices DR-wise (they're both around DR13, IIRC) but if it does have a shortcoming compared to Vices, it's that there's a same-iness to the songwriting on the album. On the Let the Music Play Blu-Ray documentary that came out a few years back one of the band members comments on the album (I think it may have been Tiran Porter) that he felt this way too, and attributed it to the lack of input from Tom Johnston, who was starting to fall in to the grips of the drug addiction that would see him leave the band shortly after Stampede was released. Also interestingly, he suggests that that album basically showed that contrary to the purist belief that Michael McDonald "ruined the band" when he joined the following year, that the original incarnation was running out of creative steam and that they probably would've broken up if something didn't change.

Having said that, I really love Stampede - after Vices, it's probably my second favourite of the pre-McD Doobies albums. I always felt like Stampede was the Doobie's "country" album, the way Vices was their "R&B" album - but with both albums, the synthesis is so effortless that it just sounds like a Doobies album until you start consciously asking yourself what kind of influences the album bears. Between Chicago VIII and Stampede, I seem to have become something of an advocate for some of these LPs that are maligned because they don't have enough hits on them, but for me albums like these are the rewards you get for digging deep into a band's back catalog. They may not have been hits, but songs like Texas Lullaby, Sweet Maxine, Music Man and Rainy Day Crossroad Blues all have the classic early-era Doobies sound, and for all the accusations of sounding the same, I think for me the highlight of the album is I Cheat the Hangman, which builds to a kind of demented crescendo of horns and voices and while still sounding like the Doobies, it also sounds like no other song they ever did. I'd take Stampede over the "hit" The Captain and Me anyday - Captain may have the hit singles, but for me the rest of the album (aside from maybe Ukiah and South City Midnight Lady) is kinda patchy. For me, hit singles are kinda like a desert, whereas good albums are like a satisfying meal - so yeah, I enjoy having a couple of pieces of Captain and Me cake every now and then, but I find the three-course meal that Stampede (and of course Vices) provides much more satisfying.

I also think that just by virtue of being the last of the bunch of quad LPs that the Doobies did that Stampede is also the best sounding one, thanks both to the continual march of recording technology, and also thanks to the band and Ted Templeman (and the WB engineering staff) perfecting their craft over the years. I also think Stampede has some of the best double drumming the band ever recorded - a lot of it is in such perfect sync that in the stereo mix it's not immediately obvious that it's two drummers, but in the quad mix the two kits are spread around the room so it's easier to hear the two guys playing off each other. I think those are the kinds of revelations that make listening to surround mixes so rewarding.

wonderful post, Dave! so good i could set it to music!

Stampede is their underrated gem imho, track after track takes a curious detour and while not everything hits the spot, its got some interesting departures for them, all the while still being very much a Doobies Mk.I album.

there's so many highlights covering different genres and styles, yet it flows, i absolutely love it; from "Music Man" with its stirring arrangement by Curtis Mayfield, via one of my favourite Motown covers, "Take Me In Your Arms (Rock Me A Little While)" to the crown jewel "I Cheat The Hangman" which is as gothic and proggily epic a track as they ever did. scintillating stuff and the Quad mix takes it to all to another dimension! please please Mr. Rhino forage us a Doobie Quadio Boxset someday soon..!!!??

 

[Quad Linda]

Adam and Dave, good posts. And some great points.

I consider myself a hard core fan of these guys. We have tix for this summer w/McDonald. Hope it still happens... This would be the 3rd time I'll see Doobs and perfhaps the 6th time I've seen McDonald. Once was w/Steely Dan. Have never seen Doobs/McD together!

I bought all the CD-4's, DVD-A, Q8 (Captain), Audiophile & reg LP's, SACD's, CD's, box, Blu-Ray, DVD etc. What, no Playtape?

Of their CD-4's, Stampede would be my least favorite. Still, it has its' moments. Adam, I agree that Take Me is a highlight. Even beats the BS&T 4 cover from '71, which is pretty damn good. To me, much of Stampede just lays there. They sound tired.

Some of my most favorite Doob tracks are the deep ones. For Someone Special, Toulouse Street, Dependin' on You and Rio are among my favorite tracks. So, the lack of big hit singles has little to do with my critique of any album.

Takin' It would rate as my favorite album of theirs, even though it is 2ch. Toulouse #2, Vices #3, Captain #4 and Minute #5.

I love Tom Johnston and bought his solo stuff on LP's & Japan CD's. Pat Simmons is often unsung. He deserves better. I even bought his Japan-only CD.

Skippy (RIP) was right about these guys, they are great, in whatever aggregation.

I will be the first in line for Quad Doobie box .

 

[JediJoker]

...attributed it to the lack of input from Tom Johnston, who was starting to fall in to the grips of the drug addiction that would see him leave the band shortly after Stampede...

Did they talk about addiction in the documentary? The "official" story had always been debilitating stomach ulcers.

...songs like Texas Lullaby, Sweet Maxine, Music Man and Rainy Day Crossroad Blues all have the classic early-era Doobies sound, and for all the accusations of sounding the same, I think for me the highlight of the album is I Cheat the Hangman...

Stampede was my favorite Doobies album out of the four "classic" lineup outings, with my favorite tune being "I Cheat The Hangman"—Doobies go prog?!—until I heard the MoFi SACD of Vices. Rob LoVerde really had its number and gave me a new appreciation for what I now regard as the superior album.

What, no Playtape?

And no Tefifon?

 

[Quad Linda]

Did they talk about addiction in the documentary? The "official" story had always been debilitating stomach ulcers.

Stampede was my favorite Doobies album out of the four "classic" lineup outings, with my favorite tune being "I Cheat The Hangman"—Doobies go prog?!—until I heard the MoFi SACD of Vices. Rob LoVerde really had its number and gave me a new appreciation for what I now regard as the superior album.

And no Tefifon?

I though about Tefi, but they haven't been releasing many titles this Millennium. Of course, neither has Playtape.

 

[jhw59]

The MOFI of Toulouse Street was a real revelation to me. I agree that Vices was also excellent and I found it much more enjoyable as an album. Stampede (my favorite) was a marginal improvement if that over the Japanese version I have. Glad they FINALLY made the RRHOF.

 

[The56Kid]

Fortunate to have heard the Toulouse, Vices, and Stampede MC FLAC, I find that I really, really like them all. I also love the Captain DVD-A. Ironically, I was never a Doobies fan when all of those albums were released.

Unlike many here, I can’t stand the McDonald era Doobies - so I’m glad that the eventual Quadio set only includes the Johnston era of the band.

 

[edisonbaggins]

Unlike many here, I can’t stand the McDonald era Doobies - so I’m glad that the eventual Quadio set only includes the Johnston era of the band.

I don't even know the difference!

 

[knifeman]

Fortunate to have heard the Toulouse, Vices, and Stampede MC FLAC, I find that I really, really like them all. I also love the Captain DVD-A. Ironically, I was never a Doobies fan when all of those albums were released.

Unlike many here, I can’t stand the McDonald era Doobies - so I’m glad that the eventual Quadio set only includes the Johnston era of the band.

Me too. I always thought McDonald was an odd fit and ruined their sound. But that's just me.

 

[MCDave]

Some of my most favorite Doob tracks are the deep ones. For Someone Special, Toulouse Street, Dependin' on You and Rio are among my favorite tracks. So, the lack of big hit singles has little to do with my critique of any album.

Takin' It would rate as my favorite album of theirs, even though it is 2ch. Toulouse #2, Vices #3, Captain #4 and Minute #5.

Yup. My fave is Captain and Me, followed by Takin' It To The Streets. Third favorite is Fault Line, partly on the strength of Chinatown. For some reason I've never been crazy for Toulouse St or Stampede, although they have their moments. I really like Vices and the debut album. Minute By Minute sounds just too "corporate" to me, though again it has its moments. My favorite Doobies songs of all time are Clear As The Driven Snow, and Turn It Loose. And the epic final minute of Without You, for which cranking it to 11 is mandatory!

 

[Fourplay]

Me too. I always thought McDonald was an odd fit and ruined their sound. But that's just me.

I love old Doobies - the quad era is awesome - but I also liked the crossover when McDonald first joined. I think Takin It To The Streets is a fine album, and I am particularly happy Linda called out "For Someone Special," which I think is a great and unique track. From the quad era I put together my own quad greatest hits disc, and it was too full to get all the tracks on. I LOVE I Cheat The Hangman and especially in quad. And I have demoed Listen To The Music often to quad newbies - the separation brings out the banjo and steel drum parts so clearly, but in the stereo mix they are so subtle you might not even notice them if you are not looking.

I already have great conversions of all four albums, but I will be scrapping with all the others for the front of the Quadio line spot when it goes on sale. Am still loving the Chicago box as one of the best releases in the last decade!

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I don't even know the difference!

Its not hard to spot. McDonalds's voice is the primary giveaway. The music became a tad less rock and a tad more jazz and pop IMO.

 

[edisonbaggins]

Its not hard to spot. McDonalds's voice is the primary giveaway. The music became a tad less rock and a tad more jazz and pop IMO.

I get you there. Just haven't heard any of the above enough to know the difference straight off.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Old Fogy rant...
I like all the Doobies’s music!
So much better than most of the slop being peddled today.
Now git the hell off my lawn you whipper snappers

 

[The Rang]

My favorite Doobies songs of all time are Clear As The Driven Snow, and Turn It Loose. And the epic final minute of Without You, for which cranking it to 11 is mandatory!

Can’t say I recognize Turn It Loose, but I do have the Takin’ It SACD so I must play it, soon.
Completely agree with the other two songs.
Remember hearing CATDS for the first time.
I’d bought the Nautilus LP and it sounded amazing.
To hear those thunderous drums crashing in is something I’ll never forget.
Last time I saw them, 5 yeas ago I think, they played Driven Snow. Sounded great

 

[Beefalo]

I don't even know the difference!

I might get shot for this but I felt the McDonald era was semi-disco. That sound turned me away from the Doobies for many years.