Ripping ELP - BRAIN SALAD SURGERY [DVD-A][2000 WB]

[ssully]

DVDAE has its own mechanism for disabling copy protection.

Its been mentioned that the disc has strange authoring with some tracks 5.0, Some 5.1. best practice would be to add silent channels, so your media player isn't switching formats. Also, IIRC there is no dedicated stereo mix.

Any media player should be able to handle either 5.0 or 5.1, no? Channel number is more a mixing choice than an authoring issue/mistake. For whatever reason, Kellogg et al. decided not to create an LFE channel for Still..You Turn Me On, Benny the Bouncer, and the 2nd Impression of Karn Evil 9 (possibly the lack of bass synths in these?)

The only trouble with channel layout I've ever had is when Denon AVRs, for some reason, stopped being able to handle 4.0 some years ago (earlier models had no problem). So I use Music Medial Helper these days to make sure they have a silent 5th channel.

There is no dedicated stereo mix, however, stereo downmix 'instructions' (metadata) are embedded in the Dolby AC3 tracks.

 

[ssully]

I agree, i can't imagine anyone being able to produce a more superiour mix of BSS than Jakko Jakszyk, it's just a shame he wasn't invited to do the rest of the albums.

Have you actually listened to his mix of the 3rd Impression of Karn Evil 9? It's a mess.

His Trilogy remix isn't that great, either. And his Bruford remixes are abominable.

I know this group is secretly a Steve Wilson groopie club, but his surround remixes of the ELP catologue has to be the worst ever done.
The copies i purchased were played once and never touched again. Can't imagine we'd get a second chance of hearing a propper remix of the albums.

I'm no SW fanboy or lover of his ELP remixes, for sure. But I've never heard him botch something as badly as JJ has.

I'd prefer Elliot Scheiner or Greg Penney do these remixes.

 

[ssully]

It might have been the mix of 5.1 & 5.0 tracks that crashed ripping software? I remember the original (if that's correct) DVDA Explorer app having trouble with newer DVDA discs at one point. Then the DVDA Extractor (different newer app) came alone and the newer discs were covered again. I don't know if it was purely a format revision or if there was some copy protection going wild at play.

I do know my disc had the Lucky Man bonus track though.

Even with the kind of hyped feel in the mixes that I typically dislike and some alternate takes used, this is one of the better mixes from this circa early 2000's period with this style of surround remix found on these DVDA releases.

Not sure what's 'hyped' about the 2000. It has occasional limited peaks on some tracks but no one would mistake it for a brickwall/volume war mastering.

The Jakko thing was/is weird! This doesn't look like an intentional finished effort. I sounds for all the world like the start of a mix that was going to be serious. No hyped or volume war style elements. The mix was never finished and especially the parts in KE9-2nd with the bass doubled in all channels seems like a clear 'wrong button pushed' kind of mistake. The kind that gets through because it wasn't ever fully proof listened through rather than someone actually listening and signing off. Probably because it wasn't intentionally finished! Maybe some label bureaucracy and the unfinished mix was turned in under duress? But it's so unfinished and botched that save for a handful of moments, the hyped 2000 mix is at least whole.

The Wilson remixes of those albums sound unfinished for him too. Pretty sure this was talked about though. He didn't establish a good rapport with the band and kind of gave up and walked away and left them unfinished.

Wilson surely never said he left any of his released ELP remixes unfinished. He said he declined to remix any more albums in the catalog.

He generally (for good or bad) pastes upmixes in for songs where the original tapes are lost. Those are still empty holes on the first album remix he did.

Which if course is hardly his fault. Steven Wilson doesn't even see the multitrack tapes, much less have anything to do with searching for them. He gets digital transfers of them from the record companies.

All kind of unfortunate stuff thinking about what could have been!
But this 2000 mix is still pretty good! The Welcome Back quad getting lost still sucks too! As good as one of the restorations may have turned out. There's still just a huge opportunity to present this whole catalog in proper form that hasn't been realized yet.

Multitracks of the ELP Anaheim concert may still exist, in the King Biscuit/Wolfgang's Vault archive.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Any media player should be able to handle either 5.0 or 5.1, no? .

Yes, but with some AVRs/AVPs the change in format from 5.0 to 5.1 will cause a slight stutter as the processor adjusts. And if the tracks are supposed to be played gapless.... You get the idea. So as a general rule, I add the silent channels to everything.

 

[JohnN]

Lucky Man is great: A favourite.

 

[jimfisheye]

Have you actually listened to his mix of the 3rd Impression of Karn Evil 9? It's a mess.

His Trilogy remix isn't that great, either. And his Bruford remixes are abominable.



I'm no SW fanboy or lover of his ELP remixes, for sure. But I've never heard him botch something as badly as JJ has.

I'd prefer Elliot Scheiner or Greg Penney do these remixes.

3rd Impression, yes! (I think I said 2nd incorrectly earlier)

I'm suggesting these are unfinished work just to give the guy the benefit of the doubt! Especially that 3rd Impression track and the Bruford releases. This has to be genuinely unfinished and unintentional, right?

I don't know how to reconcile accomplished mix elements in these examples with the grossly errant elements. I know I've shared work in progress mixes with unfinished parts (think 2.5 hour live show). If I would have actually had the unfinished part roll past my ears I would have immediately reacted and reached for the controls! But I was working on other parts and this wasn't a final listen yet... and there it went.

Anyway, I really want to believe these were unfinished!

Those Bruford releases... More like the initial prep work wasn't even really started - let alone an intentional mix - and someone hit render and released it unheard!

I don't know. I wasn't there. But if these were intentional - dude sat there, listened to the whole final mix, said "yep"... That's more on who did the hiring now and this is awkward!

I don't mean "volume war" by "hyped" BTW. I'll bluntly say "volume war" and "shrill" when I mean that! Usually a few other things as well. Hyped as in aggressive. I'd call the remix of Queen Night at the Opera hyped too if that helps. I don't mean it in a negative way at all.

A remix of Welcome Back... from the right team from the multitracks would sure be welcome! Keep the playful gratuitous keyboard pans and swirls of course but maybe mix the freakin drums and everything else with some level of attention!

Again, there's so much that could be done to present this whole catalog! The bits we've been mentioning sure don't do it justice.

 

[ssully]

I'd love to hear confirmation that Jakko's terrible remixes were in fact 'unfinished'. But I'm not sure I'd want him to finish them.

 

[scottm18]

This album is just stunning. I dug it up to listen tthe other day and on my Oppo 205 I had it in info mode so I could watch the track shifts from 5.0 to 5.1. As mostly probably know, it was re-released on SACD but without the bonus LM track which is probably the best sounding song on it--making the original 2000 era DVD audio one to covet.

This is one disc in particular that makes me just want to keep my "lowly" 5.1 analog setup rig because it sounds spectacular. I can't play many "current" Atmos/7.1 discs properly because the fold down is not entirely successful if there's not a dedicated 5.1 entry...but with all the 5.1 DVD Audios and SACDs I have (commercial and otherwise--thank you Holland123 for your incredible work over the years!) I just wonder if it's worth the upgrade hassle for more speakers and different electronics. I've see at least one person on here who regrets doing that very thing...

 

[jimfisheye]

This album is just stunning. I dug it up to listen tthe other day and on my Oppo 205 I had it in info mode so I could watch the track shifts from 5.0 to 5.1. As mostly probably know, it was re-released on SACD but without the bonus LM track which is probably the best sounding song on it--making the original 2000 era DVD audio one to covet.

This is one disc in particular that makes me just want to keep my "lowly" 5.1 analog setup rig because it sounds spectacular. I can't play many "current" Atmos/7.1 discs properly because the fold down is not entirely successful if there's not a dedicated 5.1 entry...but with all the 5.1 DVD Audios and SACDs I have (commercial and otherwise--thank you Holland123 for your incredible work over the years!) I just wonder if it's worth the upgrade hassle for more speakers and different electronics. I've see at least one person on here who regrets doing that very thing...

What did you mean by "analog"? Digital recording here and all.

Is is worth the hassle to add speakers and upgrade from 5.1 to 7.1.4?
Yes! Yes it is!

Nothing else changes. It's a different decoder, same 'electronics'. Your 5.1 music comes out the same way it did before and those extra speakers just sit there silently. Not every 7.1.4 mix will be definitive. Just like not every 5.1 mix is definitive. So, yes it is worth it!
There will be good 7.1.4 mixes and before long there will be even more good 7.1.4 mixes. I think it's unlikely you'd not ever find any new mix you liked and regret anything.

 

[ssully]

This is one disc in particular that makes me just want to keep my "lowly" 5.1 analog setup rig because it sounds spectacular. I can't play many "current" Atmos/7.1 discs properly because the fold down is not entirely successful if there's not a dedicated 5.1 entry.

What's preventing if from being entirely successful?

 

[ssully]

What did you mean by "analog"? Digital recording here and all.

I'm guessing he means 6 RCA connectors from his disc player to his preamp/AVR?

That's the old school way, and very early on, it also meant , no bass management without an outboard analog bass management stage (Outlaw Audio, I remember you!). Later, BM became possible within the players.

But that was ages ago, and thankfully HDMI made it all obsolete.