He's right as far as the dynamic range goes...no problem with that aspect...I noticed that right away...you can see right above your post that marpow has the DR values... 12 is fine for modern recordings..with a few 13s sprinkled in...but the mix is a different story..IMO….a lot of folks there might like the mix as it's more "big stereo" than surround...and that is what they love(stereo)...just my thoughts...
Rush "Hemispheres" (40th Anniversary Box Set with 5.1 Blu-Ray Audio!)
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He's right as far as the dynamic range goes...no problem with that aspect...I noticed that right away...you can see right above your post that marpow has the DR values... 12 is fine for modern recordings..with a few 13s sprinkled in...but the mix is a different story..IMO….a lot of folks there might like the mix as it's more "big stereo" than surround...and that is what they love(stereo)...just my thoughts...
Ok, Baggy's 1st impression:
Richard Chycki has done what Richard Chycki typically does and he's done it mostly well.
To clear up some misconceptions from earlier reviews:
1) There are no keyboards that shockingly burst out of nowhere (the lead guitar is assigned to the center and is articulate, bold and maybe a little hot for some listeners' taste - Lifeson fans will find nirvana)
2) There are no acoustic guitars arbitrarily assigned to the rears (which often gains praise in other engineers' mixes, to be fair)
3) There are a fair amount of discrete moments, given the source material (basically a power trio with some guitar, keys and percussion overdubs)
Now for the good, the bad and the ugly, as they say:
The good: Chycki places many of the overdub elements mostly or entirely in the surrounds - extra guitars, extra keys, percussion, including cymbal washes; he isolates Lifeson's lead guitar work some of Peart's (Peert's) hi-hat work to the center. Some of Peart's crashes make it around to the surrounds. During uncluttered passages of La Villa, the toms seem to emerge subtly in to the room as well, though never wrapping around you. The thunder storm of the gods starts completely in the rears and moves forward. During "The Sphere," the vocal starts panned hard left and the acoustic hard right, with a supporting keyboard in the rears. As the tune progresses, the vocal and guitar converge to the center - "uniting," if you will. Nice touch.
The bad: The upper register of Lee's vocal loses some articulation on occasion, as compared to the stereo mix on the blu-ray. Chycki might have used different effects or a lower level for the vocal (or both). Either way, some vocal lines are tough to hear. This may be due to competition with rhythm guitars, which are fairly distinct most of the time. There is one guitar section in Cygnus Book II which sounds buried or muddied, to my ears - the "spiraling" figure that precedes the Armageddon passage. I'd have to compare it to the stereo to be sure, but I believe it is much more distinct in the original mix (and it's a bitchin' part, which is why I care). Yes, the tom toms have a narrow field, usually, but they do in the stereo mix as well.
The ugly (literally, and not Chycki's fault): some of the images chosen to accompany the songs seem inappropriate. Lots of floating brains, even during Circumstances, The Trees and La Villa. I tired of it part way through. I never tired of the Farewell to Kings visuals. The blu-ray does not receive it's own sleeve, so folks who want to display the blu-ray or have it more accessible than hidden in a box will have to come up with a solution (such as using the album sleeve from the Sectors set).
I compared Chycki's DTS-HD-Master 5.1 mix to the stereo mix on the blu-ray. I also ran the stereo through Auro-2D surround and Auro-3D.
Chycki's mix is more enveloping and discrete than upmixing the stereo.
Nothing about Chycki's mix is butchered. There are a couple of minor elements I think he could have improved upon. He has delivered a serviceable mix, according to his publicly stated mix philosophy. Do I like his approach as much as Scheiner's or Wilson's? No. Do I like this Hemispheres 5.1 mix enough to give it further listens? Yes. Is this likely to be a favorite surround album? No.
Richard Chycki has done what Richard Chycki typically does and he's done it mostly well.
To clear up some misconceptions from earlier reviews:
1) There are no keyboards that shockingly burst out of nowhere (the lead guitar is assigned to the center and is articulate, bold and maybe a little hot for some listeners' taste - Lifeson fans will find nirvana)
2) There are no acoustic guitars arbitrarily assigned to the rears (which often gains praise in other engineers' mixes, to be fair)
3) There are a fair amount of discrete moments, given the source material (basically a power trio with some guitar, keys and percussion overdubs)
Now for the good, the bad and the ugly, as they say:
The good: Chycki places many of the overdub elements mostly or entirely in the surrounds - extra guitars, extra keys, percussion, including cymbal washes; he isolates Lifeson's lead guitar work some of Peart's (Peert's) hi-hat work to the center. Some of Peart's crashes make it around to the surrounds. During uncluttered passages of La Villa, the toms seem to emerge subtly in to the room as well, though never wrapping around you. The thunder storm of the gods starts completely in the rears and moves forward. During "The Sphere," the vocal starts panned hard left and the acoustic hard right, with a supporting keyboard in the rears. As the tune progresses, the vocal and guitar converge to the center - "uniting," if you will. Nice touch.
The bad: The upper register of Lee's vocal loses some articulation on occasion, as compared to the stereo mix on the blu-ray. Chycki might have used different effects or a lower level for the vocal (or both). Either way, some vocal lines are tough to hear. This may be due to competition with rhythm guitars, which are fairly distinct most of the time. There is one guitar section in Cygnus Book II which sounds buried or muddied, to my ears - the "spiraling" figure that precedes the Armageddon passage. I'd have to compare it to the stereo to be sure, but I believe it is much more distinct in the original mix (and it's a bitchin' part, which is why I care). Yes, the tom toms have a narrow field, usually, but they do in the stereo mix as well.
The ugly (literally, and not Chycki's fault): some of the images chosen to accompany the songs seem inappropriate. Lots of floating brains, even during Circumstances, The Trees and La Villa. I tired of it part way through. I never tired of the Farewell to Kings visuals. The blu-ray does not receive it's own sleeve, so folks who want to display the blu-ray or have it more accessible than hidden in a box will have to come up with a solution (such as using the album sleeve from the Sectors set).
I compared Chycki's DTS-HD-Master 5.1 mix to the stereo mix on the blu-ray. I also ran the stereo through Auro-2D surround and Auro-3D.
Chycki's mix is more enveloping and discrete than upmixing the stereo.
Nothing about Chycki's mix is butchered. There are a couple of minor elements I think he could have improved upon. He has delivered a serviceable mix, according to his publicly stated mix philosophy. Do I like his approach as much as Scheiner's or Wilson's? No. Do I like this Hemispheres 5.1 mix enough to give it further listens? Yes. Is this likely to be a favorite surround album? No.
So, Baggins....welcome back! So, what I'm hearing on the first song at 21-32 seconds is a guitar? If so, must have some weird effect to make it sound like a keyboard. I'd be the last guy to know about that, I thought for sure it was a keyboard effect. Anyway, whatever the heck that is, is isolated (mostly) to the center and I just think it sounds way too loud and abrupt. When I listen the vinyl, it's evenly distributed between left and right and sounds noticeably less "in your face" So to speak.
Hey GOS,
Thanks for the welcome back.
Regarding the Moog during Prelude, it sounds balanced and leveled correctly on my system. By contrast, the lead guitar that shows up throughout the album, also isolated in the center, is mixed a bit hotter, but is also within tolerance, to my ears.
And yeah, the guitars you mention are for sure hotter. For some reason, the moog is what jumped out at me.....I think because it just sounded "manufactured". Anyhoo - that's just me. Haven't heard anyone else mention that.....
MyCuff
600 Club - QQ All-Star
Except the sector 2 box set. Wonder how they screwed that up when every other version is so much better.
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Any thoughts on the stereo mix on the Blu-Ray versus the AF SACD from a few years back?
JediJoker
Audio Engineer/Enthusiast
Andy VanDette's gonna Andy VanDette.
Here are my thoughts as have now have had a chance to listen and I think Richard C. accomplished at what he was trying to do was as this was mostly Rush playing live in studio, after listening to the 5.1 it does make you feel like the band is right in the room and this thing ROCKS, you do need to crank this thing as the fidelity is really really good. Wish they had done the sector 5.1's with the same fidelity, then they would have sounded this good as well.
This had me smiling after listening to the whole thing as its such a good album if you are into Rush and I loved it in 1978 and now get to hear even a better version of it in 2018, Wow,wow and another wow.
Isn't it funny how depending on our systems and setup's and obviously our ears(mine are 59 years old and I have lost some of the highs) so after reading some of Gene's and Mike's comment on guitar in center being hot to Mike(he's much younger than me), to me I loved it the guitar soloing in the center sounded awesome to me. It's a interesting choice to do it this way but I think it works as it highlights Alex's playing. Wonder how much influence Alex had on this mix as my gut feel is sin't he the one that is more involved in listening and critiquing the mix but it's all good as everything gels pretty good, the drums sound HUGE, bass playing comes through great and of course the guitar parts are clear as can be.
Here is a excerpt of mixing for Tom Sawyer and Limelight to get idea of how Richard approaches things:
" I grew up listening to Rush, so there was the excitement factor there as well as a deep familiarity with the material. The first thing I did was just listen. I got intimate with the album because I wanted to understand all of the sonic assets and how they were originally fitted together.
Once I acclimated to the music, I would pay attention to the placement of instruments in the stereo field, the position of synths, and the use of reverbs in the original mix; and then, more or less, I would reverse-engineer it into 5.1, with attention to motion and placement.
Mixing in 5.1 is about very subtle adjustments to add a sense of space. I’ll have things that take up the entire sound field, some pieces that are subtly placed, and then some elements with extreme placement. The combination of them all works together to make an interesting album that pays tribute to the original."
This had me smiling after listening to the whole thing as its such a good album if you are into Rush and I loved it in 1978 and now get to hear even a better version of it in 2018, Wow,wow and another wow.
Isn't it funny how depending on our systems and setup's and obviously our ears(mine are 59 years old and I have lost some of the highs) so after reading some of Gene's and Mike's comment on guitar in center being hot to Mike(he's much younger than me), to me I loved it the guitar soloing in the center sounded awesome to me. It's a interesting choice to do it this way but I think it works as it highlights Alex's playing. Wonder how much influence Alex had on this mix as my gut feel is sin't he the one that is more involved in listening and critiquing the mix but it's all good as everything gels pretty good, the drums sound HUGE, bass playing comes through great and of course the guitar parts are clear as can be.
Here is a excerpt of mixing for Tom Sawyer and Limelight to get idea of how Richard approaches things:
" I grew up listening to Rush, so there was the excitement factor there as well as a deep familiarity with the material. The first thing I did was just listen. I got intimate with the album because I wanted to understand all of the sonic assets and how they were originally fitted together.
Once I acclimated to the music, I would pay attention to the placement of instruments in the stereo field, the position of synths, and the use of reverbs in the original mix; and then, more or less, I would reverse-engineer it into 5.1, with attention to motion and placement.
Mixing in 5.1 is about very subtle adjustments to add a sense of space. I’ll have things that take up the entire sound field, some pieces that are subtly placed, and then some elements with extreme placement. The combination of them all works together to make an interesting album that pays tribute to the original."
I'm GLAD you like it
..but if someone that wasn't a diehard Rush fan asked you about this...would you recommend this as a surround disc?These times are very rough as I was trying to jot down on a paper in my man cave with only light in room coming off the tv so take with a grain of salt but here were some of the highlights I marked down that come through the center channel and at first I though why was this done and not have main vocal in center but I think it works as the imaging of vocals in left and right speaker is still well done:
Epic Song # 1
Moog very clear around 4:10
Alex guitar solo 06:10
Moog again 11:40
Alex guitar solo 15:30
Circumstances
2:20 mark moog center
3.00 bass center
Trees
3:00 toms in rears
3:15 Alex in Center solo
4th song La Villa ...
:50 guitar solo
3:50-5:15 Alex guitar EPIC soloing( This is were Richard's center highlighting pays off as this really works)
6:15 around 5-7 seconds of excellent Geddy Bass in Center
6:50 Alex guitar solo
Some people might look at these times and conclude thats it for surround stuff but throughout the whole album there are times where the imaging Richard created does really make you think there is even more stuff in the center or a more 3 dimensional sound field in the whole room and he does this without using the rear speakers for the most part's.
Epic Song # 1
Moog very clear around 4:10
Alex guitar solo 06:10
Moog again 11:40
Alex guitar solo 15:30
Circumstances
2:20 mark moog center
3.00 bass center
Trees
3:00 toms in rears
3:15 Alex in Center solo
4th song La Villa ...
:50 guitar solo
3:50-5:15 Alex guitar EPIC soloing( This is were Richard's center highlighting pays off as this really works)
6:15 around 5-7 seconds of excellent Geddy Bass in Center
6:50 Alex guitar solo
Some people might look at these times and conclude thats it for surround stuff but throughout the whole album there are times where the imaging Richard created does really make you think there is even more stuff in the center or a more 3 dimensional sound field in the whole room and he does this without using the rear speakers for the most part's.
I'm GLAD you like it
This is a tough one to answer as it depends again what you are mostly trying to get out of a recording.
When I first started listening to surround 15 years ago I was struck by a few things right away, the obvious the amazing extra clarity and being able to hear instruments spread out in the sound field by the extra speakers.
As this is mostly a 3 piece Rock record I would say if you want to hear Rush in fantastic clarity and it's like you being transported into the studio or better yet hearing Rush play live in your room and if that is the criteria then I would say Yes I think a non Rush person could really enjoy this.
Maybe its just the timing of my week of how I have listened to things.
I am a HUGE Steven Wilson fan and I was so disappointed when seeing that SW did not get to do this album in 5.1 but as big a fan of SW as I am after seeing SW play on Thursday this week I was blown away what a huge Rock band they are live compared to listening to the same songs done by SW on his surround recordings, live they absolutely ROCK , I don't get that same feeling after listening to his live BR but maybe I haven't cranked the Br's enough so might have to revisit that next time I check out his live BR.
I think thats where Richard nailed this recording as he does get that big Rock sound out of this 5.1(or mostly 3.1) Bluray.
Just finished my listen, I really liked it and would give it an 8. Baggy’s review is spot on and my same experience. Super strong out pouring of Rush doing there Prog Rock best. Track 4 best for small moments of discrete. The track that had the storm with lightning was a wasted opportunity to envelop the listener in surround. I also wanted to hear Peart’s cymbal work better like when he was hitting the top bell part of cymbal. Baggie reminded me of the fact this is a power trio and the mix on this album, no radio hits is probably appropriate. Play loud that is for sure. I know why I have it an 8 as a $128.00 box set I want to be wowed more and when comparing against bonafide 10’s Appetite For Destruction and Electric Ladyland it (Hemispheres) just can’t get a 10 out of me. Packaging and info is superb, extras are weak. Too expensive but as always, glad I have it.
I havn't heard the disc yet, but when I listen to a surround mix I ask myself, "If this was the only mix I heard, would I consider investing in a surround sound system?"... or would I just keep listening to stereo... guess I'll find out soon
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A 'friendly' reminder for those on the fence about purchasing RUSH Hemispheres.......ImportCD has a GREAT price and their 10% off sale ends on November 19th and although it's currently on BACKORDER it would drop the price to UNDER $100 + s/h and applicable sales tax...if any]
https://www.importcds.com/hemispheres-40th-anniversary/602567955818
https://www.importcds.com/hemispheres-40th-anniversary/602567955818
Honestly, I don't think this 5.1 mix is quite as good as Steven Wilson's 5.1 mix for "A Farewell to Kings", but this is definitely Rich Chycki's best 5.1 mix for RUSH IMHO.
First off, this mix is very dynamic, which is quite a change of pace from the 2011-2012 5.1 mixes which were all a lot louder.
There were also many discrete moments which made me very happy throughout the course of listening to this disc. I expected a few more here and there, but there were still lots of good moments to enjoy and remind me that this is definitely a 5.1 surround mix.
Rich was smart to not really break up the core guitar, bass, and drums sound from the front speakers, but a lot of the surround expansions happen at the right moments.
People that want to dog this mix simply because of Rich's previous work should give him a chance and listen to this new 5.1 mix.
Like I said, it's definitely not the best, but it's definitely far and away from the worst, and it really is quite enjoyable!
This is probably '9' material for me, just cause the music and fidelity are so good on this one. Maybe just 2/3 for the mix itself just cause it's not quite '10' material like Steven Wilson's "Farewell to Kings" mix.
First off, this mix is very dynamic, which is quite a change of pace from the 2011-2012 5.1 mixes which were all a lot louder.
There were also many discrete moments which made me very happy throughout the course of listening to this disc. I expected a few more here and there, but there were still lots of good moments to enjoy and remind me that this is definitely a 5.1 surround mix.
Rich was smart to not really break up the core guitar, bass, and drums sound from the front speakers, but a lot of the surround expansions happen at the right moments.
People that want to dog this mix simply because of Rich's previous work should give him a chance and listen to this new 5.1 mix.
Like I said, it's definitely not the best, but it's definitely far and away from the worst, and it really is quite enjoyable!
This is probably '9' material for me, just cause the music and fidelity are so good on this one. Maybe just 2/3 for the mix itself just cause it's not quite '10' material like Steven Wilson's "Farewell to Kings" mix.
Plan9
800 Club - QQ All-Star
The stereo remaster on the Blu-Ray is the same as the 2015 Hi-Res download remaster by Sean Magee: excellent, possibly the best the original mix has ever sounded.
The AF SACD is very similar: no compression, good tonality.
For what it's worth, when I compared the two a few years back, I noted the SACD as "best", but by a very narrow margin. It's probably just a matter of preference, they're both excellent.
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I remember saying similar when I listened to Fly By Night. I admit my expectations were high following Wilson's work on Farewell To Kings.....but it is what it is. I have zero historical feelings about Rich as I didn't even know who he was until all the chatter on this release. Similar to Fly BN, I often get the feelings that Peart just sounds like he's in a box. I didn't get that feeling whatsoever with Farewell. I can't help but compare the two, doesn't mean anyone should...but I do. Had Farewell never came out as it did...would I have the same feelings? Probably not, but no way for me to know. I played the vinyl yesterday from this set and it just sounds spectacular. I suspect the stereo on the blu sounds just as wonderful and maybe better for obvious reasons. When I play the 5.1, I feel like something is lost (compared to the stunning stereo). I guess I expect more from a 5.1. And, I really do cringe when I hear the moog and Alex's guitar so loud in some of the solos. I love guitar just as much as the next guy and for the record...I'm a huge Rush fan......but that damn guitar. I promise you, I turn it down when it hits...it's just like shattered glass to my ears. Yes, I love to play music loud and I do all the time, but I want it all in balance.
I'm still not going to vote yet as I haven't played it all the way through in one setting yet. That tells me something right there...I keep playing White album...and well..last night I needed some smooth, quad and I played Art Garfunkel...front to back. That also tells me something.
I remember saying similar when I listened to Fly By Night. I admit my expectations were high following Wilson's work on Farewell To Kings.....but it is what it is. I have zero historical feelings about Rich as I didn't even know who he was until all the chatter on this release. Similar to Fly BN, I often get the feelings that Peart just sounds like he's in a box. I didn't get that feeling whatsoever with Farewell. I can't help but compare the two, doesn't mean anyone should...but I do. Had Farewell never came out as it did...would I have the same feelings? Probably not, but no way for me to know. I played the vinyl yesterday from this set and it just sounds spectacular. I suspect the stereo on the blu sounds just as wonderful and maybe better for obvious reasons. When I play the 5.1, I feel like something is lost (compared to the stunning stereo). I guess I expect more from a 5.1. And, I really do cringe when I hear the moog and Alex's guitar so loud in some of the solos. I love guitar just as much as the next guy and for the record...I'm a huge Rush fan......but that damn guitar. I promise you, I turn it down when it hits...it's just like shattered glass to my ears. Yes, I love to play music loud and I do all the time, but I want it all in balance.
I'm still not going to vote yet as I haven't played it all the way through in one setting yet. That tells me something right there...I keep playing White album...and well..last night I needed some smooth, quad and I played Art Garfunkel...front to back. That also tells me something.
I had to listen to Blues music in DSD stereo afterward Gene, that tells me something, we are getting older. It is like when I am with my 3 year old grand daughter it is balls to the wall when she is here and after I take her back to her parents I need a nap.
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