Quad LP/Tape Poll Santana: Amigos [SQ]

[jaypfunk]

One of the worst QUAD mixes I have ever heard. A real hunk of shit. I gave it a 4 only because as mentioned there are only 3 great songs on this record.

 

[Quad Linda]

An album I like a lot. I bought the SQ the first week it was out as a new release, simultaneous with the 2ch LP, as I recall. Jaypfunk is right about the mix. Quasi-Quad.

I don't recall what I rated this, probably a 7 or a 9, but it would have been a 10 solely based on the music, which I love. I wore this one out when I bought it. It was the first new Santana studio album in nearly two years at that point. As for the Quad mix, get it in stereo and synthesize it.

 

[winopener]

Good suggestion, never tried a stereo synth with that album.
BTW, i do still think it's a three stellar track and 4 fillers... but i have looked recently if "Gitano" made it as a single somewhere (jukebox use...) and it's the only track that never appeared on a single, A or B side. Someone at Columbia missed a big release...

 

[fredblue]

Israeli SQ LP pics..

 

[fredblue]

I realise this could come across as a potentially batshit crazy question but please bear with me.. is there any way to tell if this is actually SQ and not QS?

can you tell just by looking at the grooves of the LP or something?

summing the SQ decoded rears to mono doesn't magically cancel out stuff with this Quad LP like it normally does with SQ records.. which is what made me think something might be up in the first place.

I ask because I'm running the LP in the Surround Master's QS mode right now and I think I prefer it to SQ decoding it, for one thing that horrible clanging reverb is diminished making it more listenable.

oh and I meant to post about it here before but forgot, there's an old Amigos CD said to possibly be SQ encoded (according to the Surround Discography; http://www.surrounddiscography.com/quaddisc/quadcds.htm = CD CBS 86005) so I tried my copy of the CD earlier in the year (CD CBS 32476, with the matrix info in the disc hub = CD CBS 86005 11 A1) and it is totally different from the SQ LP both in Stereo and when SQ decoded.. I think it may actually be just the Stereo? anyway, just thought I'd mention it.. and ask the question if anyone knows how I can confirm the Quad LP is SQ and not QS and/or if they had tried SQ decoding any CD version of this too?

 

[winopener]

I realise this could come across as a potentially batshit crazy question but please bear with me.. is there any way to tell if this is actually SQ and not QS?

No way Columbia/CBS/Sony ever tought of doing a QS release, since they owned SQ.
QS does moves stereo stuff around better than SQ, that's why the stereo source works better than the bogus SQ one thru QS decoding.

 

[bigbillquad]

No way Columbia/CBS/Sony ever tought of doing a QS release, since they owned SQ.
QS does moves stereo stuff around better than SQ, that's why the stereo source works better than the bogus SQ one thru QS decoding.

The south America`s may do things differently.

 

[winopener]

The south America`s may do things differently.

View attachment 28222

Mixing brands and logos was a chinese peculiarity ; said that, remains to explain why a lot of releases (USA, Spain, Israel are the ones i personally tested) simply sucks badly at sq decoding.
It made sense to some southamerican countries to re-encode CD4 stuff to a matrix system in order to press them locally, since cd4 pressing facilities were very few (some A&M titles appeared that way), but for something already matrixed, why bother?
IIRC, there was also a Earth Wind & Fire title (iirc, Open Our Eyes) that had a southamerican pressing that sported a wonderful QS logo on the front cover. Guess what, it was a SQ.

By the way, can you post the label of the other side? Guajira wasn't on any Santana GH that i know.

 

[kap'n krunch]

The south America`s may do things differently.

View attachment 28222

That's why it's called PERUVIAN Marching Powder!

 

[fredblue]

Thanks for all your help guys, a couple of follow on questions, please?

I noticed among the different territories the Amigos SQ LP was pressed in they all have different info in the dead wax;

Israel: QAL 33576-1B / QBL 33576-1B

Netherlands: QAL 33576-1D / QBL 33576-1B

USA: QAL 33576-1A / QBL 33576-1C

Could this potentially mean they are all different masterings?

Strangely Side 1 of the Netherlands has some IGD at the end of the side, whereas the Israeli SQ Side 1 does not.. yet generally the sound of Side 1 is as good on the Netherlands pressing as the Israel one.

Then, on a different tangent what is the fundamental difference of what SQ does that QS doesn't that might bring about that clattering reverb which only happens when I decode this record in SQ mode?
It doesn't happen in QS mode.

Also, is it possible that one channel in the Stereo SQ grooves is out of phase?
Listening to the Stereo L&R separately, I think maybe the Left channel on the Netherlands SQ LP when you play it back in 2-channel / undecoded may be out of phase, something doesn't sound right, like there's a hollow reverb feel that isn't in the Right channel of the SQ Stereo..!?

What a strange disc! :yikes

What a great album! :worthy

 

[bigbillquad]

Mixing brands and logos was a chinese peculiarity ; said that, remains to explain why a lot of releases (USA, Spain, Israel are the ones i personally tested) simply sucks badly at sq decoding.
It made sense to some southamerican countries to re-encode CD4 stuff to a matrix system in order to press them locally, since cd4 pressing facilities were very few (some A&M titles appeared that way), but for something already matrixed, why bother?
IIRC, there was also a Earth Wind & Fire title (iirc, Open Our Eyes) that had a southamerican pressing that sported a wonderful QS logo on the front cover. Guess what, it was a SQ.

By the way, can you post the label of the other side? Guajira wasn't on any Santana GH that i know.

Hi. winopener

I bought this about 5 years ago just outta curiosity the quality wasn`t that great something different..

 

[fredblue]

very cool to see, thanks Bill

I love the way they craftily rejigged the SQ logo to make it look like QS..!!

is it actually QS or SQ?

oh and what's it say in the deadwax pls? QALxxxx etc?

 

[bigbillquad]

very cool to see, thanks Bill

I love the way they craftily rejigged the SQ logo to make it look like QS..!!

is it actually QS or SQ?

oh and what's it say in the deadwax pls? QALxxxx etc?

Hi. fredy

I had a quick listen to some tracks through the SM first in SQ & then QS I`ve come to the conclusion it sounded more balanced in SQ than it did in QS so I think it is a SQ not QS recording. It might be there were something to do with the right to release the LP from Sony CBS..

The deadwax Side A. Has QS-1005-A-PS
Side B. Has 100-B-PS

 

[fredblue]

Hi. fredy

I had a quick listen to some tracks through the SM first in SQ & then QS I`ve come to the conclusion it sounded more balanced in SQ than it did in QS so I think it is a SQ not QS recording. It might be there were something to do with the right to release the LP from Sony CBS..

The deadwax Side A. Has QS-1005-A-PS
Side B. Has 100-B-PS

wow.. how bizarre that all is..! :yikes

it says QS on the labels, QS on the sleeve, QS in the deadwax.. and its SQ!

thanks so much for the juicy info Bill, v.much appreciate your taking the time and trouble to do that detective work :upthumb

you just know I'm gonna have track down some of these "Peruvian marching powder-fuelled QS robots in disguise SQ LPs" now..

tomorrow night I'm going to try flipping the phase on the Left channel of the Amigos SQ LP before decoding it and see if that does anything or not (and report back either way).. I'd so love to get to the bottom of this one, if there is a bottom to be got to!

 

[bigbillquad]

wow.. how bizarre that all is..! :yikes

it says QS on the labels, QS on the sleeve, QS in the deadwax.. and its SQ!

thanks so much for the juicy info Bill, v.much appreciate your taking the time and trouble to do that detective work :upthumb

you just know I'm gonna have track down some of these "Peruvian marching powder-fuelled QS robots in disguise SQ LPs" now..

tomorrow night I'm going to try flipping the phase on the Left channel of the Amigos SQ LP before decoding it and see if that does anything or not (and report back either way).. I'd so love to get to the bottom of this one, if there is a bottom to be got to!

Great stuff there fredy its just about as bad as the swapped channels on some Q8 tapes..

 

[winopener]

Hi. winopener

I bought this about 5 years ago just outta curiosity the quality wasn`t that great something different..

View attachment 28226

Funny... the original tracklist is
Evil Ways 3:00
Jingo 2:44
Hope You're Feeling Better 4:10
Samba Pa Ti 4:47
Persuasion 2:34
Black Magic Woman 3:17
Oye Como Va 4:19
Everything's Coming Our Way 3:16
Se A Cabo 2:51
Everybody's Everything 3:31


So they took off
Hope You're Feeling Better 4:10
Persuasion 2:34
Everything's Coming Our Way 3:16
Se A Cabo 2:51

and replaced with tracks from I / III
Waiting
Guajira
No one to depend on
Treat
Batuka

Quite a difference...

 

[Q8]

I gave this a listen. The mix is definitely confusing, I believe it is more than double stereo with reverb. The mix seems tight and confusing, although pleasant at times. I kinda like the loud hard reverb sometimes, makes things rock along. It's one of those mixes you have to stop trying to make sense of and just be along for the ride. @:

 

[rustyandi]

I gave this a listen. The mix is definitely confusing, I believe it is more than double stereo with reverb. The mix seems tight and confusing, although pleasant at times. I kinda like the loud hard reverb sometimes, makes things rock along. It's one of those mixes you have to stop trying to make sense of and just be along for the ride. @:

I pulled my out
And played on the Laser T/Table and Surround master
(It,s Quad Jim but not as we know it)
Not much rear separation it,s just there if you listen hard

 

[fredblue]

try decoding Amigos SQ in Involve/QS mode..! :yikes

 

[rustyandi]

OK I wiped it out again
And played it through the QSD1
The mix is so diffused that any decoder does something
But a times the QS sounded better